GWB and Roe versus Wade

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Forget the war in Iraq.

Soon GWB is going to be appointed some more of his buddies to the Supreme Court and one wonders if/when the moral Christian right wing forces will force GWB to attempt to over turn Roe versus Wade.

Will it happened and do you want to see it happen?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[TheAnvil 0]

I personally don't see it happening. Abortions have been taking place for a long, long time.

Though a lightning rod issue, it really doesn't affect the average American all that much. The left-wing obstructionists in Congress attempt to use support of abortion as a litmus test of sorts for judicial nominees - a practice I find inane and disgusting. I think the Bolton case has more of an effect on abortion law in the US than the more famous Roe case, but am not sure.

Regardless, should it be overturned I wouldn't mourn, but don't see it happening.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[storm1977 0]

I voted Bush... I am a big time Republican, however I am Pro-Choice.
I don't think Bush will be trying to have that decision overturned!..

I wouldn't be too concerned by it (My Opinion)

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[lizzieb 0]

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I personally don't see it happening. Abortions have been taking place for a long, long time.

yes they have, before roe vs. wade they took place in the form of sticking a coat hanger into your uterus or pouring bleach into the uterus...

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Though a lightning rod issue, it really doesn't affect the average American all that much.

umm...if the average american is male is suppose. as a young woman i don't know very many of my female peers who haven't had a pregnancy scare in the past 5 years. every single one has as least had the thought of abortion cross their mind...regardless of whether there was an actual pregancy...the idea that it might be something they would need to do has crossed their minds. in 1 of these cases it was pregnacy from rape...she got the abortion. my point is that abortion, or the thought of it, has probably affected A LOT of women...more than you would think

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Regardless, should it be overturned I wouldn't mourn, but don't see it happening.

honestly...a much easier thing for a man to say...

sorry...this is a very emotional issue for me

[Frenchy68 0]

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Though a lightning rod issue, it really doesn't affect the average American all that much

Hummm... I know of at least a dozen American women who have had an abortion. They may be the only 12 in the US though!
I gotta start diversifying my women...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I voted Bush... I am a big time Republican, however I am Pro-Choice.
I don't think Bush will be trying to have that decision overturned!..

I wouldn't be too concerned by it (My Opinion)

Ditto.

I used to be strongly pro-choice, but much more strongly pro-gun, so I voted Bush.

I am lately a lot less pro-choice because I have begun to view the fetus a lot less biologically... What I mean is, I see it more and more as a "human being" when I used to think, "Oh, it's just a bunch of cells, and doesn't think yet."

I am not crazy about abortion, and I have historically been very in favor of the adult human being being able to direct her life, including not being saddled with an unwanted pregnancy.

A person who has to have a kid because abortion is unavailable to her after a botched attempt at birth control is not necessarily going to be a very loving parent -- and the father may skip out altogether. That is reason for not bringing that kid into the world.

Add to that the fact that BANNING THINGS JUST DOES NOT WORK IN THIS WORLD -- take guns, drugs, prostitution or abortion as prime examples -- and you realize that all you would accomplish by banning abortion statutarily would be to drive it underground, as it was in the past, and that will kill women in addition to fetuses.

I say leave it legal, as much as I hate it. And then pray for forgiveness.

P.S. It's "ROE," not "ROWE."

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mardigrasbob 0]

I know who Carl Rove is, who is Rowe?

Abortion is the killing of an unwanted child; plain and simple. To call it a woman's right to choose is bullshit. If a mother wants to end the life of her child; at what age is it ok? I would like to know how many women who have had abortions now suffer severe guilt. Many hoochie-mamas are using abortions as post-sex birth control. It amazes me how the left, so supportive of the weak, are condoning the murder of the most weak and defenseless. The third term abortions(partial birth) are ghastly!

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[wmw999 2,534]

I have had an abortion and I do not suffer severe guilt. I agree, though, that third-trimester abortions, and most later second-trimester abortions, should be performed only in extreme situations.

BTW, it's Karl Rove.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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To call it a woman's right to choose is bullshit.

Read what Lizzieb wrote above. I support her with her view that it's easy for a man to automatically dismiss what's going on with the woman's life and her body. You obviously think otherwise and I'd be willing to bet that you and I differ greatly in our religious (or lack thereof in my case) views. Start debating abortion if you want. That wasn't the motivation for me starting this thread. This thread was started to see what sort of percentage of the people want to see ROE versus WADE changed and who they voted for. Okay?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SpeedRacer 1]

At what point is it a child--that's the subject of debate.

some people say when it is one fertilized cell: a zygote.

However, often the fertilized cell fails to implant in the uterus. This happens to something like over 50% of zygotes. Often the woman never even knows she was pregnant, because she gets her next period on time or only a few days late. so if that is a child, shouldn't we give that maxi-pad/tampon a proper burial instead of just tossing it in the wastebasket?

another point: when someone is in a coma, we declare them dead when the brain stops working (no more electrical activity in the brain) Maybe human life starts when the brain starts working. Just a thought. It is difficult to think of a human life if the brain has not yet formed, since the mind is what makes us human beings.

I am personally having a hard time sorting out how I feel about this.

Speed Racer
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[Samurai136 0]

This is kind of a non-issue.

1. The nomination/ approval process. GWB nominates a candidate and the Senate judiciary runs the confirmation process with a majority senate vote needed to confirm.

2. Roe v Wade is not law. It up holds the petitioner's claim that a Texas state law violated her first, fourth, fifth, ninth, and 14th amendment rights. In addition to the law being overly vague.

For Roe v. Wade to be overturned elected state or national congressmen will have to write a specific law. In thirty years this hasn't happened. Abortion is far to controvertial an issue for either party approach writing a law. The law would have to be very specific and not violate specified articles in the Bill of Rights as established by Roe v. Wade.

That just ain't gonna happen in anyone's lifetime.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[DrunkMonkey 0]

I just advocate that people follow the Eleventh Commandment:

"Thou Shalt Keep Thine Religion to Thyself."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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"Thou Shalt Keep Thine Religion to Thyself."

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Milo 0]

Yes it will happen, because Bush has a Hotline from God and a mandate from the religious right.

It may not be a total ban, though, many countries allow abortion only in the first or second trimester.

http://www.pregnantpause.org/lex/world02.htm

Those that can afford it will go to Canada or the Bahamas.

I think if men had to suffer pregnancy, abortion would have always been legal.

[mardigrasbob 0]

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To call it a woman's right to choose is bullshit.

Read what Lizzieb wrote above. I support her with her view that it's easy for a man to automatically dismiss what's going on with the woman's life and her body. You obviously think otherwise and I'd be willing to bet that you and I differ greatly in our religious (or lack thereof in my case) views. Start debating abortion if you want. That wasn't the motivation for me starting this thread. This thread was started to see what sort of percentage of the people want to see ROVE versus WADE changed and who they voted for. Okay?

First off it's Roe as in Jane Roe a.k.a.Norma McCorvey.
Second, what?; men don't have a right to decide what happens to their child?
In 1983 a baby that I fathered was terminated with out my knowedge, at the time I was relieved. The baby would now be approaching its 21st birthday. Diapers, lighters and tampons are diposable not babies. When a woman is pregnant there is another body involved, the baby will have their little body destroyed in the abortion. Yes women do have a right to their bodies, and so should the unborn child. This is a fight that will never end, but it is not about women or their rights, it is about whether the government should condone the slaughter of the unborn.
I concede that abortions will continue legal or not and that bothers me. www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/21/mccorvey.interview/

[wmw999 2,534]

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Second, what?; men don't have a right to decide what happens to their child?

Men should have both a right and a responsibility. Unfortunately, since women are the only ones who get pregnant, that means that there can be a unilateral loss of either.

If the man walks away, he can, in fact, get off scot-free. The woman is still pregnant. She can go after him for child support, but in a huge number of cases, it doesn't work out that she gets it. She's probably going to spend the next 18 years working on it, after the 9 months of pregnancy.

If the woman gets an abortion without consulting the father, then he has lost his rights, too. And that's just as wrong. It would be nice if the pregnancy could be transferred to the father, wouldn't it?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mardigrasbob 0]

A man who doesn't see or support his child is not a man he is a pig. The damage to the child is immeasurable and the father also misses out on the most rewarding time of his life. The courts are and should make the absent fathers pay.
It is strictly a moral isuue in my mind. It is the government's obligation to its citizens to set a high moral standard. That means opposing uncommitted sex and protecting the family. It may sound old fashioned but the alternative would mean a complete disentegration of our value system.

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[wmw999 2,534]

It's happening. Saying it shouldn't simply means that the women end up holding the bag more often than the men do (yes, men definitely end up holding the bag sometimes, but I see a lot more single mothers of babies with custody).

It's wrong. But simply saying "it shouldn't happen" doesn't address the effects of its actually happening.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[PhillyKev 0]

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It is the government's obligation to its citizens to set a high moral standard.

I accept your difference of opinion on this issue, but doesn't the statement I quoted ring any alarm bells for you?

The gov't is supposed to represent the will of the people NOT the other way around. We fought a revolution over that issue. And your use of the term moral is a little misleading. Morality is universal and guides peoples choices on issues. It is no less moral to not want to burden women with mistaken pregnancies and not want to force your religious beliefs on them any more than it is to want to save what you perceive to be human beings. Both opinions are based on morals, but there is an unanswered question regarding the beginning of life that is based on religious belief. It is the gov't responsibility NOT to make a ruling on whether an act is right or wrong when the morality of it is in dispute.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Doesn't anyone view adoption as an alternative? I just became a surrogate Grandfather and when I look into that cute, innocent little boys eyes, I just can't imagine what kind of monster would have killed him because he might be "inconvenient" or a "mistake".

[livendive 8]

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It is the government's obligation to its citizens to set a high moral standard. That means opposing uncommitted sex and protecting the family.

Bullshit. It's your job to set your own moral standard and possibly to instill a similar version in your children. In a free society, the government's obligation is to protect your right to adhere to that moral standard, and someone else's right to adhere to a different one. If you want a government that will set your moral standards for you, go live with the remnants of the Taliban.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[PhillyKev 0]

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Doesn't anyone view adoption as an alternative?

Definitely. And if I were in the predicament of fathering an unwanted child, that is the path I would wish to take. But again, it comes down to not forcing others to do what you would.

For example an 18 year old girl just out of high school, living on her own supporting herself, with no family to help her and interviewing for minimum wage jobs might find it a little more than inconvenient to be pregnant.

I pass an abortion clinic to and from work every day. About once a week there are protestors in front of it. I asked one of the guys (they're almost always all men) how many children he has adopted. He just started reciting scriptture to me.

How many unwanted children have you adopted?

[mardigrasbob 0]

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Doesn't anyone view adoption as an alternative? I just became a surrogate Grandfather and when I look into that cute, innocent little boys eyes, I just can't imagine what kind of monster would have killed him because he might be "inconvenient" or a "mistake".

BINGO We have a winner!

There are thousands of childless couples who would give anything to have a child of their own. In California a mother can leave their unwanted child at a hospital or fire station no questions asked.

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[lizzieb 0]

sure...adoption is an alternative in SOME cases, but not in all. there are times when the pregnancy will cost the mother her life.

pregnancy can be the result of brutal rape. carrying that child to term can have SEVERE psychological effects on the mother. what would you say if you had a 12 or 13 year old daughter who was raped and became pregnant (this can and does happen unfortunately)

not all abortions are just because a child is "inconvenient" or a "mistake".

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Doesn't anyone view adoption as an alternative?

Definitely. And if I were in the predicament of fathering an unwanted child, that is the path I would wish to take. But again, it comes down to not forcing others to do what you would.

For example an 18 year old girl just out of high school, living on her own supporting herself, with no family to help her and interviewing for minimum wage jobs might find it a little more than inconvenient to be pregnant.

I pass an abortion clinic to and from work every day. About once a week there are protestors in front of it. I asked one of the guys (they're almost always all men) how many children he has adopted. He just started reciting scriptture to me.

How many unwanted children have you adopted?

None, but my reasons are personal. I'm not passing moral judgement on anyone, I just think that with all the methods of birth control that are readily available and adoption being an option that abortion should be a last resort.