Euthanasia/Suicide

[Michele 1]

After reading through several threads on euthanasia, I was wondering what people thought:

Are suicide and euthanasia the same thing?

Why/why not?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Jib 0]

Killing yourself when you are physically healthy is different from wanting to die when you have only a very short lifetime of pain or vegetation to live for.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Muenkel 0]

I think they are more similar than different. Either situation, the person has to be in some sort of excrutiating pain.

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Chris

[diablopilot 2]

In what way? They are both ways a person can end their life. They are usually for different reasons.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Michele 1]

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Killing yourself when you are physically healthy

Do you consider suicidal depresson to be a mental thing?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

JP, that's exactly the question...if they're different, why? If they're not, why not?

I think that the basis behind one or the other decision is determinant, but am interested in hearing from you and others about this....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Jib 0]

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Killing yourself when you are physically healthy

Do you consider suicidal depresson to be a mental thing?

I consider mental problems different from imminent, terminal physical conditions. One you can try to get help for.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I think of euthanasia as a way to end one's suffer when stricken with some sort of terminal disease. Suicide, while depression is involved is different. I think many of us at some point in our lives have give suicide some thought (maybe not serious thoughts, but come on, many people have thought about it). But all I need to do is remember the good days and have hope that the good out number the bad. Euthanasia is a whole different can of worms.

I support euthanasia, but not suicide.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[tcnelson 1]

yes, they're the same thing...and yes, i'll say the same thing when i'm dying of something that is painful.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Michele 1]

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I consider mental problems different from imminent, terminal physical conditions. One you can try to get help for.

Ah, I see. All right.

Canuck, I see your position, as well.

And TCNelson, I can only hope that when your life ends (as all ours will, some time or another), that the end for you is peaceful and painfree.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[BIGUN 1,393]

Suicide = I don't want to live any longer even though I can.

Euthanasia = I want to live longer even though I can't.

I disagree with suicide and have mixed feelings about euthanasia.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Zenister 0]

the are not the same, but they are very similar... for me it essentially comes down to the right to live and die in a manner of my choosing... not anyone else's...

the reasons behind each may be very different (and every other individual must/may weigh them for themselves) but the statement, the act is the same... "i've had enough"

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[lawrocket 3]

In suicide you kill yourself. In euthanasia, someone else kills you.

For the deceased, not much different. For the person doing the killing, I think the difference is quite big.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

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In suicide you kill yourself. In euthanasia, someone else kills you.

Not necessarily true. That's how Kavorkian avoided convictions. He would set up the iv drip or whatever, but the patient hit a button to start the juice flowing.

[Zenister 0]

slightly off topic..

i designed a small, relatively cheap, fully functional guillotine with a pull activation designed for the user.. I built a prototype and ran a minor marketing campaign under the title "I'm cheaper than Kavorkian". Anyone could assemble for it for themselves and be done with it without all the expensive, smelly chemicals

technically if you helped someone build it you could be charged with the same crime as Dr K, but shipping wood, steel, and a bit of cable is perfectly legal.

i'd borrowed the idea from Komar and Melamede who build a historic replica for "general use by the people of New York"



the only line that really divides euthanasia from suicide is that the subject lacks the means to do it themselves...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Michele 1]

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Suicide = I don't want to live any longer even though I can.

Euthanasia = I want to live longer even though I can't.

I really like the way you put that. Well said, Keith! And I have mixed feelings about both suicide and euthanasia...

Zen, I get where you're coming from, as well.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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After reading through several threads on euthanasia, I was wondering what people thought:

Are suicide and euthanasia the same thing?

Why/why not?

Ciels-
Michele

I think they're very different.

I see suicide as a choice made by an individual to end his or her life.

I see euthanasia as a choice made by person A with regard to ending the life of person B! How can there be any confusion about the fact that those are vastly different concepts?

Euthanasia can include ending the life of a suffering medical patient who cannot make the decision himself, and is (forgive me) "better off dead." It can also include putting someone to death regardless of what his wishes would be if he were coherent, or even if he is coherent, i.e. that old guy in Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

I think everyone has the right to live, and everyone has the right to choose to die. Criminalizing suicide, or assisting a right-minded person in committing suicide, is a mistake, and in the end accomplishes nothing but harming human dignity and self-determination.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I think of euthanasia as a way to end one's suffer when stricken with some sort of terminal disease.

Yes, but WHO chooses it? I think of "euthanasia" as being a choice made ABOUT someone by a person who is not that someone, i.e. a family deciding to "pull the plug" on a comatose family member who cannot recover.

I do not call a terminally ill patient deciding to kill himself "euthanasia" -- I call that suicide. Deciding to end YOUR OWN life is suicide always, never "euthanasia."

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I support euthanasia, but not suicide.

You support the killing of an ill patient, for example, by others' choice, but NOT the killing of oneself by one's OWN choice?! That truly IS shocking!

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Suicide = I don't want to live any longer even though I can.

Euthanasia = I want to live longer even though I can't.

I disagree with suicide and have mixed feelings about euthanasia.

If you "couldn't" live longer despite "wanting" to, you wouldn't need to kill yourself, now would you. So your definition of euthanisia appears flawed. You'll live longer, just with pain and poor quality of life.

I stand by the notion that suicide is killing one's self, and euthanasia is killing another person, for reasons of pain and suffering or deterioration of quality of life in a medical sense.

You can suicide for any reason: depression, illness, boredom, belief in reincarnation or an afterlife...

Just because it's done for reasons of pain or illness does not make suicide euthanasia. It's still suicide.

Euthanasia was practiced by the Nazis. They killed retarded people and it was termed euthanasia. In that sense, it was really just murder. But if a person is brain-dead or comatose with no hope of recovery (at least not with our medical knowledge), pulling the plug is euthanasia.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Muenkel 0]

One point about suicide is the extreme pain the person leaves behind for their loved ones to deal with.

I don't support either due to my religious convictions. However, I cannot judge either act. In either case, I do believe the person involved is in excrutiating pain. How can you judge that person's actions?

I personally have been blessed to never have a suicidal temptation. However, since my head injury I have thought many times that I wish I would have died that night.

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Chris

[Muenkel 0]

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But if a person is brain-dead or comatose with no hope of recovery (at least not with our medical knowledge), pulling the plug is euthanasia.

That's an interesting statement. I think of "pulling the plug" as referring to when a person is kept alive by machines and cannot live on their own. In other words if you pulled the plug and let nature take its course the person would die naturally. Do you consider that euthanasia?

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Chris

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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But if a person is brain-dead or comatose with no hope of recovery (at least not with our medical knowledge), pulling the plug is euthanasia.

That's an interesting statement. I think of "pulling the plug" as referring to when a person is kept alive by machines and cannot live on their own. In other words if you pulled the plug and let nature take its course the person would die naturally. Do you consider that euthanasia?

I agree with what you said about "pulling the plug" being in regard to a person who will not live without machine assistance. (That's an interesting landscape for a discussion, since technically a diabetic won't live without insulin, for example. Is it all about "machines," or about outside medical assistance in general?)

If a person could live without medical intervention, but is incoherent, if other people kill him, that's euthanasia (right or wrong).

If that person could live without medical intervention but IS COHERENT, choosing to die is suicide. And I believe that we all have the right to suicide. I am not governed by religious convictions that tell me it's wrong. It's the ultimate personal choice -- beyond which mate to pick, where to live, what job to work... There is nothing more personal than whether to live or die; therefore, it is not up to others to dictate whether a person does one or the other, or is prohibited from doing one or the other.

Your question, in my view, is the heart of euthanasia: a person who cannot survive unassisted being allowed to die by virtue of nonassistance.

If that person, incoherent, would live without assistance, if something had to be done to end the life, that pushes the border into the hazy area between euthanasia and killing (murder?).

There is a big question here for me, though. If a person is incoherent but not on some sort of life support -- just feeding tubes -- what do you call it if you take out the feeding tubes and just let the person die gradually and slowly of malnutrition.

The case of a woman here in Florida is still in the courts. The husband wants to let her die, since she is severely brain-damaged. Her parents hope for her recovery (hoping beyond hope is a better description) and are fighting him having the doctors remove her feeding tubes. I believe that apart from feeding, her body continues to live. I think they said she would be kept hydrated but just not fed, if the husband had his way. He claims to know that her wishes, prior to this condition (I forgot what brought her to this, I think it was a botched surgery but I'm not sure) were that she not be kept alive this way.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Muenkel 0]

Euthanasia to me is when a person can live unassisted by medical science, but is suffering and wants someone to end their life for them. It's generally a person who is terminally ill and chooses to not go through the excrutiating pain. I'm referring to a coherent person. As for an incoherent person, I don't see how that cannot be seen as murder.

As for the feeding tube, I don't see that as extraordinary means. It's in the realm of denying someone oxygen to breathe. In regard to the woman in Florida, yes she is severely brain damaged, but I don't consider her dead. What puzzles me about that case is the husband has a girlfriend and is free to divorce his wife. It's my understanding that her parents are fully willing to take over the complete care of her. So what's his motive? Is there a life insurance policy involved?

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Chris

[Sebastian1 0]

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Euthanasia to me is when a person can live unassisted by medical science, but is suffering and wants someone to end their life for them. It's generally a person who is terminally ill and chooses to not go through the excrutiating pain.
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Guy I am 23 yrs old. but what read from the above is scaring. what a lack of information. even my schoolmates of 16 to 19 yrs have better knowledge than you obviously you do not know what you're talking about. what a shit

Seb

[Muenkel 0]

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Guy I am 23 yrs old. but what read from the above is scaring. what a lack of information. even my schoolmates of 16 to 19 yrs have better knowledge than you obviously you do not know what you're talking about. what a shit

Rather than just lobbing a bomb at me, why don't you explain where I am wrong. I find it humurous when someone attacks someone elses intelligence yet cannot write a grammatically correct sentence.

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Chris