Rebecca 0
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billvon 3,070
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>And what about the forest fires(naturally caused) that we have stopped
>from becoming forest destroyers?
?? Our stopping of forest fires has resulted in larger, more severe forest fires. We now understand that trying to stop forest fires leads to disaster; now we often just let them burn. Nature managed forests for long before we got here, through erosion, growth, death, decay and fire. If we screw with that cycle we will cause (and have caused) massive problems.
>I'm not sure we've created more . . .
Just in the past 50 years it's increased 20%. This matches our burning of fossil fuels. We put about 10 billion tons carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere every year now. It doesn't just "go away."
>For every scientist who thinks we are having an effect, 5 more disagree.
> Many believe that what is happening to this planet would of happened
>regardless of us.
Right. And some scientists think that women were created from Adam's rib, and that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that evolution is a fraud, and that there is no such thing as DNA. If you take them seriously - well, you deserve the 'science' you end up with.
>I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing something positive, I'm just saying
> the planet will balance everything out, and if that means that we freeze
> and all die, well then it sucks to be us.
Now that's exactly right! We do not have the power to completely destroy all life on earth, but we do have the power to make it impossible to be a human on this planet. We should not be doing our level best to hasten that day; that's poor planning.
>from becoming forest destroyers?
?? Our stopping of forest fires has resulted in larger, more severe forest fires. We now understand that trying to stop forest fires leads to disaster; now we often just let them burn. Nature managed forests for long before we got here, through erosion, growth, death, decay and fire. If we screw with that cycle we will cause (and have caused) massive problems.
>I'm not sure we've created more . . .
Just in the past 50 years it's increased 20%. This matches our burning of fossil fuels. We put about 10 billion tons carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere every year now. It doesn't just "go away."
>For every scientist who thinks we are having an effect, 5 more disagree.
> Many believe that what is happening to this planet would of happened
>regardless of us.
Right. And some scientists think that women were created from Adam's rib, and that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that evolution is a fraud, and that there is no such thing as DNA. If you take them seriously - well, you deserve the 'science' you end up with.
>I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing something positive, I'm just saying
> the planet will balance everything out, and if that means that we freeze
> and all die, well then it sucks to be us.
Now that's exactly right! We do not have the power to completely destroy all life on earth, but we do have the power to make it impossible to be a human on this planet. We should not be doing our level best to hasten that day; that's poor planning.
?? Our stopping of forest fires has resulted in larger, more severe forest fires. We now understand that trying to stop forest fires leads to disaster; now we often just let them burn.
Not true, I have a very good friend who spends the whole summer preventing lightening strikes from becoming massive fires. Flying round chasing storms.
>I'm not sure we've created more . . .
Just in the past 50 years it's increased 20%. This matches our burning of fossil fuels. We put about 10 billion tons carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere every year now. It doesn't just "go away."
I dont know this, but whatever evidence you can produce, I bet there's some to counter it.
some scientists think that women were created from Adam's rib, and that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that evolution is a fraud, and that there is no such thing as DNA. If you take them seriously - well, you deserve the 'science' you end up with.
Ok, so who's to say that the 'global warming' guys aren't the nutbars? Who do we believe?
All I know is, in a million years the planet wont even remember we were here.
Lee
PS Its a bit rich, that us 'skydivers', burning thousands of lbs a day of avgas/JP8/name your poison aviation fuel, can argue about details when it comes to global warning.
Not true, I have a very good friend who spends the whole summer preventing lightening strikes from becoming massive fires. Flying round chasing storms.
>I'm not sure we've created more . . .
Just in the past 50 years it's increased 20%. This matches our burning of fossil fuels. We put about 10 billion tons carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere every year now. It doesn't just "go away."
I dont know this, but whatever evidence you can produce, I bet there's some to counter it.
some scientists think that women were created from Adam's rib, and that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that evolution is a fraud, and that there is no such thing as DNA. If you take them seriously - well, you deserve the 'science' you end up with.
Ok, so who's to say that the 'global warming' guys aren't the nutbars? Who do we believe?
All I know is, in a million years the planet wont even remember we were here.
Lee
PS Its a bit rich, that us 'skydivers', burning thousands of lbs a day of avgas/JP8/name your poison aviation fuel, can argue about details when it comes to global warning.
Lee _______________________________
In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk
In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk
Rebecca 0
I dont know this, but whatever evidence you can produce, I bet there's some to counter it.
So where is it? There are two links in this thread to point to our role in causing the demise of a whole bunch of critters. Can you show me some research that opposes those findings?
Just saying that you're sure the evidence is out there is pretty thin. You gotsta back yo self up in here!
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
AdD 1
Thinking purely as a skydiver, climate change is not in our best interest. Do we really want the weather to get worse than it already is? Maybe I'll biased cuz I'm from the Maritimes and we hardly get two days of sun in a row, but skydivers of the world must unite on this issue!
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream
billvon 3,070
>Not true, I have a very good friend who spends the whole summer
> preventing lightening strikes from becoming massive fires. Flying round
> chasing storms.
I agree that we still sometimes do that, but most organizations (including the NPS) now plan "controlled burns" and often let fires run their course. Forests eventually burn; all you can do is push the date back some. And if you do that, the eventual fire is much worse than it would have been otherwise.
>I dont know this, but whatever evidence you can produce, I bet
>there's some to counter it.
Nope. No serious scientist claims that we are not emitting lots of CO2, or that CO2 concentrations are increasing. Most scientists agree that we are causing warming of the planet. The ones that don't (generally ones in the employ of oil companies) have been gradually changing their tune from "there's no such thing as global warming" to "OK, there is such a thing as global warming, but we didn't cause it" to "OK, we are causing it, but maybe it will be a good thing, and maybe it would have happened eventually anyway."
It's easy to prove it to yourself - go visit any glacier and look at pictures of it from 50 years ago. Get a hold of satellite pictures of the northern ice cap. Heck, take a CO2 measurement yourself, and compare it to data from 20 years ago.
>Ok, so who's to say that the 'global warming' guys aren't the nutbars?
>Who do we believe?
The ones who do the better science.
> preventing lightening strikes from becoming massive fires. Flying round
> chasing storms.
I agree that we still sometimes do that, but most organizations (including the NPS) now plan "controlled burns" and often let fires run their course. Forests eventually burn; all you can do is push the date back some. And if you do that, the eventual fire is much worse than it would have been otherwise.
>I dont know this, but whatever evidence you can produce, I bet
>there's some to counter it.
Nope. No serious scientist claims that we are not emitting lots of CO2, or that CO2 concentrations are increasing. Most scientists agree that we are causing warming of the planet. The ones that don't (generally ones in the employ of oil companies) have been gradually changing their tune from "there's no such thing as global warming" to "OK, there is such a thing as global warming, but we didn't cause it" to "OK, we are causing it, but maybe it will be a good thing, and maybe it would have happened eventually anyway."
It's easy to prove it to yourself - go visit any glacier and look at pictures of it from 50 years ago. Get a hold of satellite pictures of the northern ice cap. Heck, take a CO2 measurement yourself, and compare it to data from 20 years ago.
>Ok, so who's to say that the 'global warming' guys aren't the nutbars?
>Who do we believe?
The ones who do the better science.
Oh man, is nobody listening to me?
Global warming IS happening.
CO2 polution is up.
Are WE causing it? In dispute.
Are the two linked? In dispute.
Can we do anything about it? Invaribly not.
We are sat in the starting gates while global warming is on the home straight.
Could we of prevented it? Yeah sure, we could of not discovered fossil fuels, the combustion engine, nuclear fission etc etc.
What we are doing now is akin to pissing in the river and expecting it to change the taste of the whole damn ocean.
Too little, too late.
Lee
PS I dont really want to, but I will if its demanded find a article about global warming that claims its not our fault, it would of happened anyway.
PPS I'm sorry if people have a problem seeing my point, i'm not that eloquent/articulate/bothered.
Global warming IS happening.
CO2 polution is up.
Are WE causing it? In dispute.
Are the two linked? In dispute.
Can we do anything about it? Invaribly not.
We are sat in the starting gates while global warming is on the home straight.
Could we of prevented it? Yeah sure, we could of not discovered fossil fuels, the combustion engine, nuclear fission etc etc.
What we are doing now is akin to pissing in the river and expecting it to change the taste of the whole damn ocean.
Too little, too late.
Lee
PS I dont really want to, but I will if its demanded find a article about global warming that claims its not our fault, it would of happened anyway.
PPS I'm sorry if people have a problem seeing my point, i'm not that eloquent/articulate/bothered.
Lee _______________________________
In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk
In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk
crozby 0
I believe methane is more readily accessible than gasoline and burns cleaner as well.
As long as it gets burned it is, otherwise it's a greenhouse gas.
Those pesky cows need to do their bit too...
Some studies have suggested the average cow produces the same amount of greenhouse gas each day as a car that is driven 3.2 kilometres.
(http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/04/11/417500-cp.html)
Something like 20% of Australia's greenhouse gas emissions comes from agriculture. That's a lot of farting!
Links?
How can a 50% increase in greenhouse gasses, directly attributable to us, not mean that the earth would be cooler without us right now? Would the rainforest have cleared itself of all those acres (another contributing factor in the greenhouse crisis)?
I've never heard any environmental scientists say we're doing just fine or that this is happening regardless of our pollution...
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
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