Guest #26 November 10, 2004 Quote>Who the hell even gives a rat's ass what that silly cunt thinks??? The people who read what she says and comment on it, I suppose. In the end she has as much right to be heard as anyone who posts here. C'mon, Bill, you know it was a rhetorical question... mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #27 November 10, 2004 Yes we all know Patrick Swayze, is he DZ.com. poster? Then let it be known so, heaven forbid I would attack him. Never heard of Don. Is he a dz.com poster? Never heard of him. Heaven forbid I would attack him Again you are right. Movie stars are often attacked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #28 November 10, 2004 QuoteNow you're just talking crazy!! How can their views be discounted like that!? 49% of the US agrees with them, so it must be legit! Well, since they are the minority, I guess they are just crazy people that shouldn't have their opinion heard? QuoteShe, like the other Hollywood dolts, should just STFU and stick to what they do best... er, well better than most.... er... what they get paid to do. Interesting to watch all these conservatives that have been demanding the 49% to get in line and bring peace to the country that is split are the ones discounting opinions and throwing around childish insults. I don't care who she is, how much she makes or what she says. It holds merit because she is an American citizen. Those that want her to shut up or want her to leave the country because she speaks up are very un-American. Feel free to speak your opinion - its your right, just like it is hers. If you remove your conservative blinders you will see she was refering to the fact to think globally, not locally. To not think that bombing one spot on the globe is the way to end terrorism when we have seen proof of terrorism in all corners of the world. Despite the destruction of Iraq and Afghan we have not seen terrorist attacks curtail. She is demanding more thought be put behind the actions, not more might. Every administration has helped get us to this point, maybe its time those on the Hill think out of the box._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trent 0 #29 November 10, 2004 QuoteWell, since they are the minority, I guess they are just crazy people that shouldn't have their opinion heard? Oh I listened to what that 49% said, I just didn't agree with it. Just because there's a lot of people with one opinion doesn't make it right. Yes, that goes both ways. Similarly, the 49% should not discount what the 51% say either. QuoteI don't care who she is, how much she makes or what she says. It holds merit because she is an American citizen. Those that want her to shut up or want her to leave the country because she speaks up are very un-American. Feel free to speak your opinion - its your right, just like it is hers. And I did speak my opinion. I am free to consider anyone acting or speaking out with the "popular Hollywood" opinion, just because it's trendy... an idiot. THAT is my right, and for you to consider THAT unAmerican is just stupid. If these self-important stars would start using more than just bumper-sticker politics, it'd make them easier to listen to. Notice how they never really offer any alternatives other than, "Just do the opposite of what Bush did!"? How about, what do we do now? Silly stars. As for whoever it is that says "she's rich, she can't be that stupid"... is your only value on success how much money someone makes?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TypicalFish 0 #30 November 10, 2004 QuoteIf you honestly think that Cher or Madonna are "fucking idiots, stupid, or morons", the irony of the statement is lost on you. Either of them probably make more serious business decisions in a week than most of us will make in a lifetime. True. Just like Britney Spears..."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #31 November 10, 2004 Quoteinvading Iraq / obtaining good oil deals / using up artillary and fueling the US economy are not necessarily the best way to fight terrorism. And what do you recommend? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paulipod 0 #32 November 10, 2004 Well, as you asked... I would firstly not try to blur every issue into 'a war on terror' which les face it, is a rather large catchall. Secondly, as part of a united nations - and an advocate of democracy... would listen to the majority. Invading Iraq was at best an excuse to remove SH, (which dont get me wrong isnt bad IMO) but certainly not the banner that was waved as reasoning. So, as you cant undo what has been done instantly... firstly I would accept that my foreign policy is part of the problem, especially when it is very visible that most decisions boil down to money. How would I fix the shitty mess were in now? - dont know specifically as I dont know the guts of some of the detail.... but I would certainly be big enough to appologise for the crapper I had made of it so far. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #33 November 10, 2004 QuoteWhenever she opens her mouth, other than to sing, she always sounds like an idiot. OMG you mean some performers actually sing live w/o lip-syncing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dingley 0 #34 November 10, 2004 All I see when I look at Madonna is Margaret Thatcher. She's entitled to her view, and I generally agree with the sentiments, but I wish she'd stop stinking up our country and just fuck off back where she belongs...and she can take her toryboy husband with her...wankers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #35 November 10, 2004 'All I see when I look at Madonna is Margaret Thatcher. ' Now thats a frightening visualisation.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #36 November 11, 2004 QuoteI'm confused about her stated position, above. Is she advocating that we just give up trying to fight terrorism all together because it's hopelesss, or that we should drop bombs on it everywhere it exists, even in California and "down the street"? I believe what she was trying to get across is that our current methods of invade and bomb just aren't cutting it. Not helping, not necessary, not humane. We can't stop terrorism by terrorizing, it just doesn't work. -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #37 November 11, 2004 QuoteI wish everyone knew just how little Madonna's view on the war means to me or should mean to anyone else. Her view on world issues from her celebrity bubble has very little to do with reality. From Fark: Madonna calls for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. In response, forces in Fallujah halt advance. Bush and Blair immediately call for a NATO meeting. Israeli cabinet discussing options. Powell on his way to Iraq to meet with the provisional government - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 29 #38 November 11, 2004 first it was barbara streisand, now it's madonna - could it be that you had a crush on both ladys and they had no interest in you? The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,058 #39 November 11, 2004 > I wish everyone knew just how little Madonna's view on the war means to me . . . Apparently, it means enough to you to comment about it. The reason their opinions are discussed and promulgated is because, well, people discuss their opinions. It's like Michael Moore - had everyone ignored him, he would have been as famous as, say, Michael Wilson, which is to say not at all. But since lots of right wingers spent a lot of time talking about him, he became the most successful documentary filmmaker ever. (Which is no suprise; right wingers often elect actors to positions of power, so they must not think Hollywood is totally devoid of intellect.) Don't get me wrong; you can talk about whoever you like. But the attention you pay to someone's opinion, and how much you discuss it, is a good measure of how much their opinion means to you, in a good or a bad way. Personally I pay no more attention to most actor's viewpoints than I pay to most people here, with a few exceptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #40 November 12, 2004 QuoteWe can't stop terrorism by terrorizing, it just doesn't work. Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How would you stop terrorists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #41 November 12, 2004 Quoteas part of a united nations - and an advocate of democracy... would listen to the majority. I see: you would let the UN control the security of America... Wonderful. The electorate just spoke on what they thought of that idea. The U.N. doesn't give a shit about the U.S. Let them have their way, and they will suck us dry and feed us to the wolves. And you would let them. QuoteI would accept that my foreign policy is part of the problem More specifics, please. What exactly is wrong with our foreign policy that is causing terrorists to want to kill us? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #42 November 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteWe can't stop terrorism by terrorizing, it just doesn't work. Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How would you stop terrorists? By taking away their support structure. Obviously, somone knows where OBL is, but they aren't saying. Why? Because they sympathize with his cause. Why? That's the question that we need to answer. We cannot, in the time left before the sun engulfs the earth, hunt down every terrorist. The only thing we can do if we want to not be targets of terrorism is to stop doing things that make terrorists want to target us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,058 #43 November 12, 2004 >Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How's that working for the Israelis? With all the terrorizing they've been doing, it must be as peaceful as Sweden there by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #44 November 12, 2004 >What exactly is wrong with our foreign policy that is causing terrorists to want to kill us? Placing military bases in the "holy land". Thats a huge issue that even the Saudi's are barely able to tolerate. How would you feel if the Chinese bult a military base over the top of the Vatican or on the Mall in DC?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,514 #45 November 12, 2004 Add to that the support of Israel, our open defiance of the UN as a mediating body, our invasion of another country that hadn't attacked us directly first, and that's a good start. We seem, as a country, to be trying to make ourselves stronger at the expense of others. Making others weaker might make us not need to be as strong, but it also pisses them off, and that makes folks more determined. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #46 November 12, 2004 QuoteBy taking away their support structure. Obviously, somone knows where OBL is, but they aren't saying. You guys who hate the Iraq war are sure good at saying generic stuff, but you just don't seem to have any real workable plan with details. What exactly is the "support structure" to which you refer, and how would you take it away? How would you get those who know where OBL is, to reveal that info? QuoteWe cannot... hunt down every terrorist. You don't have to get every one. Just enough so that they can't mount any decent operations. And key members in their leadership will take care of most of that. QuoteThe only thing we can do if we want to not be targets of terrorism is to stop doing things that make terrorists want to target us. Ah yes, in other words, surrender to them, and let them control how Americans live. We should immediately outlaw Christianity. Women should be forbidden from getting an education, and should be treated like slaves. Pray to Allah. Relinquish our freedom and prosperity, and let Islamic extremists run our lives. Yeah, then they'll leave us alone, and it will all be worth it. Wonderful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #47 November 12, 2004 QuoteWe should immediately outlaw Christianity You might be on to something there. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #48 November 12, 2004 Quote>Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How's that working for the Israelis? With all the terrorizing they've been doing, it must be as peaceful as Sweden there by now. If they weren't fighting back, they would be extinct by now. Fighting for survival isn't fun, but it's preferable to extinction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #49 November 12, 2004 QuoteAdd to that the support of Israel, our open defiance of the UN as a mediating body, our invasion of another country that hadn't attacked us directly first, and that's a good start. Are you advocating that we should abandon our support for Israel? If we just give the Islamic militants free reign to wipe out Israel, then they'll leave America alone, and that strategy would be a good thing to do? As for the U.N., they are a corrupt, inept, and powerless organization. If you put our soveriegnty in their hands, then we are finished as a free nation. As for invading other countries, should we just ignore tyranny everywhere it exists on earth, as long as it isn't directly affecting us? If we adopt that isolationist philosophy, don't you think that brutal dictators around the world will be emboldened in their evil ways, knowing that they can act with impunity? America's military might, and the threat of using it, is the only thing keeping many areas of the world from turning into mass carnage. That's not a nice touchy feely thought to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it's reality in a brutal world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,058 #50 November 12, 2004 >If they weren't fighting back, they would be extinct by now. Nonsense. That's a wild guess on your part. The Indians and Pakistanis stopped fighting (finally) - are they still around? We stopped fighting in Viet Nam - are the US and the Vietnamese still around? The assumption that you must have war to survive has been proven false time and time again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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ChasingBlueSky 0 #28 November 10, 2004 QuoteNow you're just talking crazy!! How can their views be discounted like that!? 49% of the US agrees with them, so it must be legit! Well, since they are the minority, I guess they are just crazy people that shouldn't have their opinion heard? QuoteShe, like the other Hollywood dolts, should just STFU and stick to what they do best... er, well better than most.... er... what they get paid to do. Interesting to watch all these conservatives that have been demanding the 49% to get in line and bring peace to the country that is split are the ones discounting opinions and throwing around childish insults. I don't care who she is, how much she makes or what she says. It holds merit because she is an American citizen. Those that want her to shut up or want her to leave the country because she speaks up are very un-American. Feel free to speak your opinion - its your right, just like it is hers. If you remove your conservative blinders you will see she was refering to the fact to think globally, not locally. To not think that bombing one spot on the globe is the way to end terrorism when we have seen proof of terrorism in all corners of the world. Despite the destruction of Iraq and Afghan we have not seen terrorist attacks curtail. She is demanding more thought be put behind the actions, not more might. Every administration has helped get us to this point, maybe its time those on the Hill think out of the box._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #29 November 10, 2004 QuoteWell, since they are the minority, I guess they are just crazy people that shouldn't have their opinion heard? Oh I listened to what that 49% said, I just didn't agree with it. Just because there's a lot of people with one opinion doesn't make it right. Yes, that goes both ways. Similarly, the 49% should not discount what the 51% say either. QuoteI don't care who she is, how much she makes or what she says. It holds merit because she is an American citizen. Those that want her to shut up or want her to leave the country because she speaks up are very un-American. Feel free to speak your opinion - its your right, just like it is hers. And I did speak my opinion. I am free to consider anyone acting or speaking out with the "popular Hollywood" opinion, just because it's trendy... an idiot. THAT is my right, and for you to consider THAT unAmerican is just stupid. If these self-important stars would start using more than just bumper-sticker politics, it'd make them easier to listen to. Notice how they never really offer any alternatives other than, "Just do the opposite of what Bush did!"? How about, what do we do now? Silly stars. As for whoever it is that says "she's rich, she can't be that stupid"... is your only value on success how much money someone makes?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #30 November 10, 2004 QuoteIf you honestly think that Cher or Madonna are "fucking idiots, stupid, or morons", the irony of the statement is lost on you. Either of them probably make more serious business decisions in a week than most of us will make in a lifetime. True. Just like Britney Spears..."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #31 November 10, 2004 Quoteinvading Iraq / obtaining good oil deals / using up artillary and fueling the US economy are not necessarily the best way to fight terrorism. And what do you recommend? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #32 November 10, 2004 Well, as you asked... I would firstly not try to blur every issue into 'a war on terror' which les face it, is a rather large catchall. Secondly, as part of a united nations - and an advocate of democracy... would listen to the majority. Invading Iraq was at best an excuse to remove SH, (which dont get me wrong isnt bad IMO) but certainly not the banner that was waved as reasoning. So, as you cant undo what has been done instantly... firstly I would accept that my foreign policy is part of the problem, especially when it is very visible that most decisions boil down to money. How would I fix the shitty mess were in now? - dont know specifically as I dont know the guts of some of the detail.... but I would certainly be big enough to appologise for the crapper I had made of it so far. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #33 November 10, 2004 QuoteWhenever she opens her mouth, other than to sing, she always sounds like an idiot. OMG you mean some performers actually sing live w/o lip-syncing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingley 0 #34 November 10, 2004 All I see when I look at Madonna is Margaret Thatcher. She's entitled to her view, and I generally agree with the sentiments, but I wish she'd stop stinking up our country and just fuck off back where she belongs...and she can take her toryboy husband with her...wankers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #35 November 10, 2004 'All I see when I look at Madonna is Margaret Thatcher. ' Now thats a frightening visualisation.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #36 November 11, 2004 QuoteI'm confused about her stated position, above. Is she advocating that we just give up trying to fight terrorism all together because it's hopelesss, or that we should drop bombs on it everywhere it exists, even in California and "down the street"? I believe what she was trying to get across is that our current methods of invade and bomb just aren't cutting it. Not helping, not necessary, not humane. We can't stop terrorism by terrorizing, it just doesn't work. -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #37 November 11, 2004 QuoteI wish everyone knew just how little Madonna's view on the war means to me or should mean to anyone else. Her view on world issues from her celebrity bubble has very little to do with reality. From Fark: Madonna calls for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. In response, forces in Fallujah halt advance. Bush and Blair immediately call for a NATO meeting. Israeli cabinet discussing options. Powell on his way to Iraq to meet with the provisional government - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 29 #38 November 11, 2004 first it was barbara streisand, now it's madonna - could it be that you had a crush on both ladys and they had no interest in you? The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #39 November 11, 2004 > I wish everyone knew just how little Madonna's view on the war means to me . . . Apparently, it means enough to you to comment about it. The reason their opinions are discussed and promulgated is because, well, people discuss their opinions. It's like Michael Moore - had everyone ignored him, he would have been as famous as, say, Michael Wilson, which is to say not at all. But since lots of right wingers spent a lot of time talking about him, he became the most successful documentary filmmaker ever. (Which is no suprise; right wingers often elect actors to positions of power, so they must not think Hollywood is totally devoid of intellect.) Don't get me wrong; you can talk about whoever you like. But the attention you pay to someone's opinion, and how much you discuss it, is a good measure of how much their opinion means to you, in a good or a bad way. Personally I pay no more attention to most actor's viewpoints than I pay to most people here, with a few exceptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #40 November 12, 2004 QuoteWe can't stop terrorism by terrorizing, it just doesn't work. Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How would you stop terrorists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #41 November 12, 2004 Quoteas part of a united nations - and an advocate of democracy... would listen to the majority. I see: you would let the UN control the security of America... Wonderful. The electorate just spoke on what they thought of that idea. The U.N. doesn't give a shit about the U.S. Let them have their way, and they will suck us dry and feed us to the wolves. And you would let them. QuoteI would accept that my foreign policy is part of the problem More specifics, please. What exactly is wrong with our foreign policy that is causing terrorists to want to kill us? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #42 November 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteWe can't stop terrorism by terrorizing, it just doesn't work. Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How would you stop terrorists? By taking away their support structure. Obviously, somone knows where OBL is, but they aren't saying. Why? Because they sympathize with his cause. Why? That's the question that we need to answer. We cannot, in the time left before the sun engulfs the earth, hunt down every terrorist. The only thing we can do if we want to not be targets of terrorism is to stop doing things that make terrorists want to target us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #43 November 12, 2004 >Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How's that working for the Israelis? With all the terrorizing they've been doing, it must be as peaceful as Sweden there by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #44 November 12, 2004 >What exactly is wrong with our foreign policy that is causing terrorists to want to kill us? Placing military bases in the "holy land". Thats a huge issue that even the Saudi's are barely able to tolerate. How would you feel if the Chinese bult a military base over the top of the Vatican or on the Mall in DC?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,514 #45 November 12, 2004 Add to that the support of Israel, our open defiance of the UN as a mediating body, our invasion of another country that hadn't attacked us directly first, and that's a good start. We seem, as a country, to be trying to make ourselves stronger at the expense of others. Making others weaker might make us not need to be as strong, but it also pisses them off, and that makes folks more determined. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #46 November 12, 2004 QuoteBy taking away their support structure. Obviously, somone knows where OBL is, but they aren't saying. You guys who hate the Iraq war are sure good at saying generic stuff, but you just don't seem to have any real workable plan with details. What exactly is the "support structure" to which you refer, and how would you take it away? How would you get those who know where OBL is, to reveal that info? QuoteWe cannot... hunt down every terrorist. You don't have to get every one. Just enough so that they can't mount any decent operations. And key members in their leadership will take care of most of that. QuoteThe only thing we can do if we want to not be targets of terrorism is to stop doing things that make terrorists want to target us. Ah yes, in other words, surrender to them, and let them control how Americans live. We should immediately outlaw Christianity. Women should be forbidden from getting an education, and should be treated like slaves. Pray to Allah. Relinquish our freedom and prosperity, and let Islamic extremists run our lives. Yeah, then they'll leave us alone, and it will all be worth it. Wonderful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #47 November 12, 2004 QuoteWe should immediately outlaw Christianity You might be on to something there. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #48 November 12, 2004 Quote>Terrorizing the terrorists is exactly how you stop them. How's that working for the Israelis? With all the terrorizing they've been doing, it must be as peaceful as Sweden there by now. If they weren't fighting back, they would be extinct by now. Fighting for survival isn't fun, but it's preferable to extinction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #49 November 12, 2004 QuoteAdd to that the support of Israel, our open defiance of the UN as a mediating body, our invasion of another country that hadn't attacked us directly first, and that's a good start. Are you advocating that we should abandon our support for Israel? If we just give the Islamic militants free reign to wipe out Israel, then they'll leave America alone, and that strategy would be a good thing to do? As for the U.N., they are a corrupt, inept, and powerless organization. If you put our soveriegnty in their hands, then we are finished as a free nation. As for invading other countries, should we just ignore tyranny everywhere it exists on earth, as long as it isn't directly affecting us? If we adopt that isolationist philosophy, don't you think that brutal dictators around the world will be emboldened in their evil ways, knowing that they can act with impunity? America's military might, and the threat of using it, is the only thing keeping many areas of the world from turning into mass carnage. That's not a nice touchy feely thought to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it's reality in a brutal world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #50 November 12, 2004 >If they weren't fighting back, they would be extinct by now. Nonsense. That's a wild guess on your part. The Indians and Pakistanis stopped fighting (finally) - are they still around? We stopped fighting in Viet Nam - are the US and the Vietnamese still around? The assumption that you must have war to survive has been proven false time and time again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
