quade 4 #51 November 15, 2004 A marionette doesn't have to have much more than a head full of pine as long has the puppet masters know which strings to pull. Just because GWB won two elections doesn't mean I think he's any smarter.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #52 November 15, 2004 QuoteA marionette doesn't have to have much more than a head full of pine as long has the puppet masters know which strings to pull. Just because GWB won two elections doesn't mean I think he's any smarter. If you are so smart that you feel qualified to make such an assessment, then why aren't you rich or famous? Or President? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #53 November 15, 2004 Quote If you are so smart that you feel qualified to make such an assessment, then why aren't you rich or famous? Or President? So, now you -want- the smartest people running the country? I thought all the intellectuals were automatically placed in the "liberal elite" category and therefore in your mind unqualified. Anyway, the U.S. doesn't elect people based on their mental capacity. The reason are far more emotional or haven't you noticed that about this Forum?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #54 November 15, 2004 QuoteAnyway, the U.S. doesn't elect people based on their mental capacity. "The biggest understatment of the 2004 election..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #55 November 15, 2004 I thought all the intellectuals were automatically placed in the "liberal elite" category and therefore in your mind unqualified. Please quote where I've made such a statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #56 November 15, 2004 QuoteI thought all the intellectuals were automatically placed in the "liberal elite" category and therefore in your mind unqualified. Quade, it's always been the 'liberal elite' who are quick to point that out. Don't take the lack of a response from the conservative side of the fence as validation to that ridiculous theory. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #57 November 15, 2004 Quote QuoteI thought all the intellectuals were automatically placed in the "liberal elite" category and therefore in your mind unqualified. Quade, it's always been the 'liberal elite' who are quick to point that out. Don't take the lack of a response from the conservative side of the fence as validation to that ridiculous theory. - Jim He's attributing it to me personally. Of, course I'm sure he's frantically searching every post I've ever made to try and defend his stupid remark, which he won't be able to do. Pretty sorry for a moderator. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #58 November 15, 2004 I wasn't basing it off any specific comment, just the overall feeling and tone I get from some (quite a few) of the guys on the far right. Like actually having an education is a bad thing. Maybe I got this feeling from a conversation (ok, thread really) that took place here recently that included a certain professor from SDC and some right wing extremists. I probably shouldn't have said "in your mind" but rather "the minds of some of the far right".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #59 November 15, 2004 QuoteI wasn't basing it off any specific comment, just the overall feeling and tone I get from some (quite a few) of the guys on the far right. Like actually having an education is a bad thing. Maybe I got this feeling from a conversation (ok, thread really) that took place here recently that included a certain professor from SDC and some right wing extremists. I probably shouldn't have said "in your mind" but rather "the minds of some of the far right". If that was an apology, I accept. BTW, far right is only from your perspective. I don't consider myself far right, nor does anyone who knows me except the extreme left liberals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #60 November 15, 2004 Quote>One person isn't going to be enough. Sure it is! Personally, I'd do it via the BSP. Put some code in the RTC driver to look for a certain date, then go out and make file changes. No one really cares about what's in the BSP as long as it works. hiding between TLAs doesn't chang anything, Bill. A systemic bug across the entire population of voting machines would show up. A lot of attention from the academic world is being paid to examining these machines for bias, be it intentional or accidental. Bush won. That Dukakis II was close says a lot about how happy people have been with his job performance over the past term. 2008 should be a barn burner... if either party can find something resembling a candidate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #61 November 15, 2004 Quote I thought all the intellectuals were automatically placed in the "liberal elite" category and therefore in your mind unqualified. Please quote where I've made such a statement. He didn't write that you'd stated that, he wrote that he "thought .....", a reasonable supposition given the totality of your contributions to this forum. I am inclined to think the same of you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #62 November 15, 2004 I'm yet to hear about Diabold releasing their code for an outside review. Does anyone know if this has happened?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #63 November 15, 2004 Wow this is getting pathetic... It really is. I am guessing you can find problems with all voting machines in all states of the US. There is really only one significant state right now and that is OHIO. 150 or 130K votes is alot. To think there is this big cover up is crazy. And let's just pretend there were inaccurate counts in every state, does that mean every bad vote was in favor of GWB or do you think some maybe a few might be Kerry's too. Who spawns all this Sore Looser Shit anyway? Mike Moore? I really wish all the "I am moving to Canada" people would move. They obviously do NOT believe in our country or the way inwhich we elect our officials. So, their only purpose then would be to change the system this country was built on.... HA!!! Go away Liberal crazies.... I don't want you here and neither do our founding fathers.... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #64 November 15, 2004 QuoteQuote I thought all the intellectuals were automatically placed in the "liberal elite" category and therefore in your mind unqualified. Please quote where I've made such a statement. He didn't write that you'd stated that, he wrote that he "thought .....", a reasonable supposition given the totality of your contributions to this forum. I am inclined to think the same of you. Oh, nice little personal attack. Tell you what, when I start giving a shit what you think about my contributions, I'll let you know. Until then, I'll continue to laugh at your posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #65 November 15, 2004 QuoteWow this is getting pathetic... It really is. I am guessing you can find problems with all voting machines in all states of the US. There is really only one significant state right now and that is OHIO. 150 or 130K votes is alot. To think there is this big cover up is crazy. And let's just pretend there were inaccurate counts in every state, does that mean every bad vote was in favor of GWB or do you think some maybe a few might be Kerry's too. I can't believe some of you are unable to look past party devides even after the election. What I find even more unbelievable is that some of you have no interest in looking into a system that is possibly flawed and has the possibility of outside influence. Regardless of which party one the election, it is a fairly scary thought.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #66 November 15, 2004 QuoteI am guessing you can find problems with all voting machines in all states of the US. There is really only one significant state right now and that is OHIO. I know you said that you were guessing , but even if it's half true why are these machines still getting used. I find it strange that you would still use these machines knowing that they are not acurate. You may as well use a random number generator. john---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #67 November 15, 2004 Both of you guys need to stop right now. You're on the bubble of getting bounced -- permanently.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #68 November 15, 2004 Quote but even if it's half true why are these machines still getting used. I find it strange that you would still use these machines knowing that they are not acurate. You may as well use a random number generator. Come on.... Are you kidding me? How many votes were cast? How many do you think are bogus? There is never 100% accuracy, that is why when it is close there is a recount. The count is to determine if there were innaccuraceys in the count. I would think say the US has one of the best voting systems in the world. You never heard this crap before 2000.... Do you think in there were no problems in past elections? What happened in the 1800's or 1950's???? This is a new liberal strategey.... and it is pathetic. 3,000,000 + more votes for Bush than for Kerry, and liberals can't believe they lost. They will continue to loose too because they still don't understand how or why they lost.... That is the funniest part!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #69 November 15, 2004 Quote I know you said that you were guessing , but even if it's half true why are these machines still getting used. I find it strange that you would still use these machines knowing that they are not acurate. You may as well use a random number generator. The accurate of counting paper ballots isn't all that great, either, probably exceeds the margin of error of the 2000 election. Hang chads and all that bullshit. Touch screen computer machines have the potential to be much more reliable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #70 November 15, 2004 Quote Touch screen computer machines have the potential to be much more reliable. And the potential for much more mischief -- especially without a paper trail to back things up.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #71 November 15, 2004 if you're a conspiracy theorist maybe... BTW - Who killed JFK in your opinion? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #72 November 15, 2004 Quoteif you're a conspiracy theorist maybe... BTW - Who killed JFK in your opinion? More like if you've spent more than 30 seconds working with computers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #73 November 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteif you're a conspiracy theorist maybe... BTW - Who killed JFK in your opinion? More like if you've spent more than 30 seconds working with computers. HAHAHA sorry PK... I help write weather algs for MIT all day!!!! Keep trying... still not that easy. And like computerized slot machines, the code is not the work of one person. THe codes is typically broken up through several people so there is no collaboration. Seriously... anyone that believe this conspiracy crap is out of their mind.... It is just too difficult! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #74 November 15, 2004 Really? You think so? Unlike computerized slot machines there is not an independent agency that verifies their veracity. Here's a little story. I'm being intentionally vague. I heard about a guy one time who went on vacation, when he came hope he was walking out of the airport past the sidewalk baggage check in. On the side of each terminal was an ip address. Not a 10.x or 192.x address, but an actual public IP address. This guy made a note of one and went home. Then he spent a little time messing around on his computer and next thing you know he could view lists of passengers, what their destinations were and how many bags they had checked. He even figured out to reroute luggage by changing some of that information. That's the way I heard it anyway. If you really think it's that hard to hack into a system, you're living a dream world. I'm not saying that it happened this time around, but it's entirely possible and plausible for one person to hack into a system and make the kind of changes that are being speculated about. Check out popular mechanics. "These machines are just as vulnerable as all the others, maybe even more so. But the paper ballot system is a step in the right direction for verifiability." --Rebecca Mercuri, Harvard University According to team leader Michael Wertheimer, former NSA senior technical director, the group uncovered "considerable security risks that can cause moderate to severe disruption in an election." They found that the smart cards used to provide supervisors with access to the machines could be easily hacked; the removable media containing voting information was protected by flimsy locks that the team picked in under a minute using bent paper clips. The paper clips weren't even necessary, since all 32,000 keys supplied by Diebold for the machines are identical, allowing any key to open all of the state's DREs. On the software side, the most glaring weakness was in election headquarters servers: Dell PCs ran the Windows 2000 operating system without Microsoft's security upgrade patches, which left servers susceptible to viruses and worms, enabling a remote attacker to tamper with election systems by phone. http://popularmechanics.com/science/research/2004/11/hack_the_vote/ There was also a guy, can't find the article about it now, that was hired by a county to test the security of the voting systems. He hacked all of the machines in a room in a couple of minutes and manipulated the votes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #75 November 15, 2004 QuoteCome on.... Are you kidding me? No , If the machines arn't reliable why use them. I don't know all the different methods of voting in the US but surely there is a better way than using inacurate machines. It would stop the Kerry supportors speculating about possible iregularities and they would have to accept the Bush win. QuoteHow many votes were cast? How many do you think are bogus? I don't know , no one knows. you said there was problems with all voting machines in America this might be an exageration then again it might not , no one knows the true depth of the problem. I know if it is close then a recount can be asked for but if a machine has logged an incorrect amount of votes then a recount is a moot point. The US probably does have one of the best voting systems in the world, but there is still room for improvement, Are you happy with one of the best or would you rather have the best. I agree that you can never get 100% acurate system but even you admit that there are flaws with the machines. I do remember the problems with the card punch machines they used in Florida the last time. Thats why I don't understand why one piece of technolgy was replaced with another. As I said in an earlier post what is wrong with putting an X in a box on a piece of paper. it's been used for years and it is accountable. I understand that you still get a number of spoilt ballot papers using a paper ballot, but i don't think we would be seeing threads popup about conspiracy theories as it would be easier to prove who one in a recount. QuoteThis is a new liberal strategey.... and it is pathetic. 3,000,000 + more votes for Bush than for Kerry, and liberals can't believe they lost. They will continue to loose too because they still don't understand how or why they lost.... That is the funniest part!!!! I don't think that I am a liberal neither could I be classed as a republican. I don't think it matters anymore who got the most votes. Bush Is the President and thats that. No amount of griping is going to change that. But the funniest part of it all is that you all know that there is a flaw in the system and you will possibly use the same machines (or something similar) next time. In 4 years time when you stand at the new bright and shiny voting machine and cast your vote , will it matter if the machine doesn't count your vote because there is an error in it software. I don't really care anymore who won as I don't trust any politition but I have more distrust (or less trust) on the machines used.---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
