I am a sexist. A racist. A homophobe.

[WhirledWeb 0]

Here's an article from Newsweek:

My Turn: I’m a Conservative, But I’m Not a Hatemonger

The author, Todd Werkhoven, complains that he is attacked because his opinions aren't politically correct. For example, he feels that if he is against abortion, he's labeled as an anti-womens rights activist.

Does he receive empassioned responses just because his opinion is different, or because he - and other "conservatives" - make decisions for "the rest of us" based on his religious worldview? He's not a woman, but does his voting affect women's rights... he's not gay, but does he affect gay issues with his biased stance?

Is Todd a sexist, racist homophobe or just another Conservative Christian with his own point of view?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Don't be afraid of death,
be afraid of the unlived life.

[lawrocket 3]

Well, it's one of the great ironies of political society - those who preach tolerance typically do not tolerate opinions different from their own.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skydiver30960 0]

Interesting read. Now, in response to:

Quote

Is Todd a sexist, racist homophobe or just another Conservative Christian with his own point of view?

It would depend on how much Todd's self worth was based on his own self-image and actions vs. what other people thought about him.

Other people can call me a one-eyed one-horned flying purple people eater and it doesn't make it so.

Elvisio "arm chair warrior" Rodriguez

[quade 4]

I think the basic problem is that the "moral right" is asserting itself into things they have no business with.

A lot of folks talk about the separation of church and state and ask where did that idea begin. Some point to the First Amendment but it goes back much further than that.

I would think that if a member of the "moral right" was going to follow some wisdom they'd actually be best served by following the words of Jesus rather than the words of someone out to simply use them for votes.

Where in the New Testiment does Jesus say anything about homosexuality?

Yet he does have something to say about the separation of church and state.

Mark 12:17

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

I think the basic problem is that the "moral right" is asserting itself into things they have no business with.

Such as protecting the innocent? No business doing this?

Many argue that an expectant mother should be able to get an abortion at any time during the pregnancy without it being considered wrong.

Courts have not been so generous when someone other than the mother decides to 'terminate the pregnancy'.

If abortion (at least late term) is not the taking of a life, then Scott Peterson should have been charged with only one count of murder. An attack on a pregnant woman that results in the death of an unborn could only result in a charge of aggravated assualt or whatever.

Separation of Church and State?

Do you think the founders would have agreed that the principle should mean that the word 'Christmas' should not be used in a public school? There are many such modern day examples of how the principle has been twisted to mean much more than what was intended, as shown by what was Ok in their time, but argued to be against the 'separation' principle now. I can agree that in some cases more separation is a better policy, but the 'separation' clause should not be used to make that argument.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[MC208B 0]

Hi Paul. I think that maybe the separation of church and state issue doesn't mean that the gov. should have nothing to do with religion, perhaps it means no STATE mandated religion?

As the recent election results show, the majority (yes, majority) of voters are tired of being portrayed as being ignorant stooges that can't form an opinion.

Over the past couple years, the "enlightened" people that have sued to get the 10 commandmants out of public places, pushed for the removal of "in God we trust" from money and that asshole in CA that sued on his daughters behalf (not that she wanted him to) to remove the reference to God in the pledge of alligence? has done nothing but motivate the people to get out and vote for the right candidates.

As for gays, well, I really have nothing against them at all, live and let live. I do have a problem with local governments i.e. Multnomah county OR sneaking around behind their constituents backs making deals with gay groups, while leaving out the mainstream folks and announcing that yep, we're going to marry gays right here in Portland, like it or not! Not to mention corporations that are FORCED to offer benefits to gay couples and not offer the same to unmarried hetro couples.

And last but not least, we don't need Leonardo DeCaprio, the "boss" et al, to tell us what we should think.

[quade 4]

Well, I think that swings both ways.

Quote

And last but not least, we don't need Leonardo DeCaprio, the "boss" et al, to tell us what we should think.

And a lot of us don't need any religious leaders, Bob Jones, Ralph Reed or least of all the government to tell -us- what we should think either.

I think the concept should be that people should be able to go about their lives and believe what they believe without a lot of government intervention.

The problem with the Decalogue in public places is that it becomes a governmental endorsement of a set of religious beliefs -- some that we probably do not all share. So what business is it of the government to tell me that I can't also have another god (1) or make an image of another god (2) or how I should speak about god (3) or work on the seventh day (4) or even disrespect my parents (5)?

I'll give you that it probably is in the government's interest that I don't go around killing, stealing or perjuring (6, 8 and 9), but what business is it of the government's what goes on behind closed doors (7) or how much I wish I could keep up with the Jones (10)?

In fact, it seems to me that our system of capitalism and work ethic pretty much demand that some of these commandments be broken for the betterment of society.

So, while I have no issue at all with anyone believing and living by any religion, they (and the government least of all) have no right whatsoever to demand others live by those same beliefs.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gawain 0]

On top of that, Werkhoven lives in Portland, OR -- a very liberal city in its own right. You can smell the political differences as you walk from Broadway to Park down to PSU.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Quote

On top of that, Werkhoven lives in Portland, OR -- a very liberal city in its own right. You can smell the political differences as you walk from Broadway to Park down to PSU.

Lemme guess...Liberal part of town--> Nauseating combo of B.O., pot smoke, and Patchouli?

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

Yet he does have something to say about the separation of church and state.

Mark 12:17

Interesting. That's a very fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam, then.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Re: Church and state: The moment someone uses their tax-exempt pulpit, be it in a podunk church or on the airwaves, for political action of any kind, THEY LOSE THEIR FUCKING TAX EXEMPTION. You want to enter politics and civics, pay your goddamn admission price like the rest of us.

Really fucking piss us off---Retroactive taxes collected from the date of the first offense...

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

On top of that, Werkhoven lives in Portland, OR -- a very liberal city in its own right. You can smell the political differences as you walk from Broadway to Park down to PSU.

Lemme guess...Liberal part of town--> Nauseating combo of B.O., pot smoke, and Patchouli?

*LOL* Depends on where you are. Along Park Ave it's quite tranquil and reserved. As you head along Broadway it's far more metropolitan. East/West along Burnside is where I would most likely run into your description then it could linger a bit as you head into the NW part of the city. I never ventured into PSU.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[slug 1]

Quote

Here's an article from Newsweek:

My Turn: I’m a Conservative, But I’m Not a Hatemonger

The author, Todd Werkhoven, complains that he is attacked because his opinions aren't politically correct. For example, he feels that if he is against abortion, he's labeled as an anti-womens rights activist.

Does he receive empassioned responses just because his opinion is different, or because he - and other "conservatives" - make decisions for "the rest of us" based on his religious worldview? He's not a woman, but does his voting affect women's rights... he's not gay, but does he affect gay issues with his biased stance?

Is Todd a sexist, racist homophobe or just another Conservative Christian with his own point of view?

Your asking that question in SC
Have you tried the womens forum? Or the Barnfire A poll in all three forums could be intersting.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

On top of that, Werkhoven lives in Portland, OR -- a very liberal city in its own right. You can smell the political differences as you walk from Broadway to Park down to PSU.

Lemme guess...Liberal part of town--> Nauseating combo of B.O., pot smoke, and Patchouli?

LOmofoL!!!
I'll bet you'll catch some falafel in there as well, maybe cilantro too.
(of course, those things are good to smell)

On the conservative side of town it's BBQ BBQ BBQ!!

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[WhirledWeb 0]

Quote

Your asking that question in SC
Have you tried the womens forum? Or the Barnfire A poll in all three forums could be intersting.

You're right - it would be very interesting in the womens forum or the bonfire. (seems like once somebody gets on a soapbox... it gets moved to this forum anyway... I was just starting it where it would ultimately end up)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Don't be afraid of death,
be afraid of the unlived life.

[WhirledWeb 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

On top of that, Werkhoven lives in Portland, OR -- a very liberal city in its own right. You can smell the political differences as you walk from Broadway to Park down to PSU.

Lemme guess...Liberal part of town--> Nauseating combo of B.O., pot smoke, and Patchouli?

LOmofoL!!!
I'll bet you'll catch some falafel in there as well, maybe cilantro too.
(of course, those things are good to smell)

On the conservative side of town it's BBQ BBQ BBQ!!

Exactly! On the weekends, a good mix can be found at Saturday Market...
fairly centrally located - but with plenty of hemp and patchouli to go around.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Don't be afraid of death,
be afraid of the unlived life.

[billvon 2,991]

>I never ventured into PSU.

I'm there right now. From the tone of the papers here it's pretty liberal. The beer's pretty good; not sure if that makes it more liberal or conservative. No incense, patchouli, BO or hare krishas though, just a lot of used record stores and bars.

[juanesky 0]

Quote

I am a sexist. A racist. A homophobe.

Hey! no personal attacks!

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Well, it's one of the great ironies of political society - those who preach tolerance typically do not tolerate opinions different from their own.

Well, it's easy to tolerate differing viewpoints when they don't want to change *your* life as well. Like:

that woman doesn't have the right to choose. or
Those queers should burn in hell, or sooner if some lowlife wants to help God out.

It's when they say that said people don't have the right to talk in a conference hall that's they've gone over the line.

[lawrocket 3]

Well, it's easy to tolerate differing viewpoints when they don't want to change *your* life? Jeez. Don't you understand that this is a cultural issue?

Multiculturalism is to be embraced!!!! No one culture or set of beliefs is any better or worse than any other. Got it? That's what I was taught in university.

Here's my point:

Are you someone who does not believe that a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy usurps the rights of the father and the baby? If so, you are labeled a sexist.

Are you someone who believes that women can exercise better control of themselves and be individually dominant, despite what is said? You are a sexist for denying that a glass ceiling exists.

Are you a person who believes that women who are your lower level employees should be used as toys for your sexual pleasure by manipulating your respective power in violation of federal anti-harassment laws? No sweat, you're Bill Clinton, and you get a free pass on those.

Do you believe that individuals can overcome obstacles to get an education and a good job, even if they are minorities? If so then you are a racist. If you are a minority who happened to get an education and a good career from it, you are an "Uncle Tom," a "token" or an "Oreo."

Right now we are at the same place in these debate as we were in the AIDS debate in the 1980's. Recall that efforts to close the bathhouses were not regarded among the various communities as the health issues that they were, but as efforts by the Reagan Administration to put gay sback into closets. The efforts to deny homosexuals and drug addicts from donating blood were frowned upon as "stigmatizing" and not to protect the blood supply.

Even Larry Kramer was ostracized for speaking the truth about the issues - he did for the AIDS epidemic what Cosby did just recently.

I would have hoped that we all learned a lesson with the handling, on all ends, of these types of issues. I think to do so would be a waste of time.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[storm1977 0]

Quote

Re: Church and state: The moment someone uses their tax-exempt pulpit, be it in a podunk church or on the airwaves, for political action of any kind, THEY LOSE THEIR FUCKING TAX EXEMPTION. You want to enter politics and civics, pay your goddamn admission price like the rest of us.

Really fucking piss us off---Retroactive taxes collected from the date of the first offense...

That is very true, and currently there are 10 BLACK churches under investigation by the IRS for having Kerry come in and speak!!!!
Slightly Ironic.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty