England to ban public smoking

[lawrocket 3]

So, once again, Europe following America's lead? Banning public smoking? My undertsanding is that the anti-smoking crowd out in Old Blighty are furious that an outright ban is not being called for.

I like that they are concerned also about binge drinking. So, they'll exempt bars that do not serve food from the smoking ban. Who here thinks that finding a pub that serves food will be harder than finding a car with a steering wheel on the left side?


From http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041116/hl_nm/health_britain_government_dc_2

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LONDON (Reuters) - The British government plans to impose a sweeping public smoking ban across England and Wales within two years and will consider curbs on television advertising of "junk food" aimed at children.


Food retailers and manufacturers will be expected to come up with a clear labeling system for healthy and unhealthy foods.


"All government departments will be smoke-free," Health Secretary John Reid told parliament on Tuesday.


"All enclosed public places and workplaces ... will be smoke-free. All restaurants will be smoke-free. All pubs and bars preparing and serving food will be smoke-free."


A government policy paper on public health said other pubs and bars will be free to choose whether to allow smoking, as will private clubs.


Officials said elements of the ban would be introduced from 2006 with the full embargo, which Reid said would cover "90-odd percent" of bars and restaurants, in place by the end of 2008.


Last week, the Scottish parliament decided to ban smoking in public buildings from 2006.


Shares in pub groups and tobacco firms tumbled even before the official announcement.


Britain's biggest pubs operator Enterprise Inns was hardest hit. Its shares lost 3.8 percent.


Shares in tobacco firms Gallaher and Imperial Tobacco fell 2 percent, while pub operators Mitchells & Butler, Punch Taverns and Wolverhampton & Dudley Breweries slid over 3 percent.


The wide-ranging White Paper targeted rising obesity in Britain, sexually transmitted infections and unhealthy workplaces as well as tobacco.


Reid said the government would ask media regulator Ofcom to consult on advertising to children on television adding: "we will work with the industry to limit other forms of advertising to children."


Further restrictions on tobacco advertising will be imposed, along with graphic picture warnings on cigarette packets.


"We will support Ofcom to strengthen the rules of broadcast advertising of alcohol, particularly to protect the under-18s," Reid added.


To tackle Britain's rising obesity problem, the government will work with food manufacturers and supermarkets to introduce by early 2006, a clear coding system for foods so people can understand at a glance what is healthy and what should be eaten only in moderation.


"We will develop a simple code for processed food to indicate fat, sugar and salt content for shoppers," Reid said.


The British Beer and Pub Association said the government's blueprint could drive bars away from serving food, back to being drinking-only dens as most profit still came from alcohol.





"With concern about binge drinking at its height it seems an extraordinary contradiction to introduce a policy designed to drive us to drink," said the group's Mark Hastings.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Who here thinks that finding a pub that serves food will be harder than finding a car with a steering wheel on the left side?

90% + of our pubs serve food. That's where all the money is in the industry - if they stopped serving food they'd stop turning a profit.

The ban's good... I really look forward to seeing it come into force. We're technically kinda following Irelands lead... them and Scotland.

I think the rule about non food serving pubs is a concession to smokers - it' might work quite well as it will lead to 10% of pubs being smoker havens while the rest of us are free to enjoy the rest of the world un-hampered by a horrid fog.

[SpeedRacer 1]

They've already done it in Ireland. And the Irish took to it surprisingly well. I was shocked. I thought the Irish all smoked like chimneys. so if it can work in Ireland why not in England?

Incidentally, smoking is banned in some bars in only certain counties in America. The laws in this area (at least in maryland) are decided within each county, not statewide. For example Montgomery county has a ban, Frederick county does not.

As I've moved away from DC & closer to the more rural areas, I've found more people smoke. supposedly smoking is correlated with lower educational levels, so that might have something to do with it.

Speed Racer
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[storm1977 0]

Here in NY it has been law for a while....

The big problem was about 5 yrs ago they passed a law which said you could have smoking provided it was in a closed off area. So, a mojority of busness owners invested a shit load of money into building walls and seperate smoking areas.... costing them billions across the state. 3 years later they make an outright ban!!!!

All that money wasted and not returned.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[dingley 0]

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Who here thinks that finding a pub that serves food will be harder than finding a car with a steering wheel on the left side?

Why would we need steering wheels on the wrong side?

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To tackle Britain's rising obesity problem, the government will work with food manufacturers and supermarkets to introduce by early 2006, a clear coding system for foods so people can understand at a glance what is healthy and what should be eaten only in moderation.

If pub food disappears (not a great loss), it'll help to ensure that we don't get as fat as you lot. Maybe you should follow our lead...

[TheAnvil 0]

I can't stand smoking, but think the government has no business banning it in public. It IS nice when you can go to a bar and not come out smelling like a cigarette though.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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90% + of our pubs serve food. That's where all the money is in the industry - if they stopped serving food they'd stop turning a profit.

Here in Canada the money is in the alcohol sales, same as true for Holland. Why would you say that the money is in the food?

[jakee 1,556]

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If pub food disappears (not a great loss),

I'm going to go out on a limb here,

you're a townie, aren't you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Frenchy68 0]

Pub food can be outright delicious. And an great social place...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[storm1977 0]

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Pub food can be outright delicious. And an great social place...

I agree!!!! Local Pubs/Bars somtimes have the best food around.... And I happen to believe a much better atmosphere than some of those 5 star restaurants :-)

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[dingley 0]

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I'm going to go out on a limb here,

you're a townie, aren't you?

Not quite sure what a townie is in modern parlance. My kids point to Burberry, which I thought was what clothed 'Chavs'. Who knows?

Well, I don't live in a town and, to be honest, I haven't been to a pub in years. Do they really serve food in 90% of pubs? Are you including these Beefeater-type places, which are like semi-restaurants?

Anyway, I have no problem with a smoking ban. If it works in Ireland (and I'm told it does), it'll work anywhere.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Here in Canada the money is in the alcohol sales, same as true for Holland. Why would you say that the money is in the food?

Apparently yes - thats what the industry's saying at least. I'm surprised that the last line of the quoted article contradicts whats in evey other media today.

I can well believe it given the competition they face on alcohol from other bars. You can't go into a pub without seeing some drink deal or promotion.

In my exp. yes 90% of pubs probably do serve food. I'm just curious about Night clubs - not many of them do... pity - those are the places I'd most like to see smoke free.

I do find the govt.'s choice of distinction odd though. This regulation is supposed to protect people at work - the idea is to ban smoking in the work place and thus ensure no one is forced to endure passive smoke at work... why the ban based on food service then?

Regardless of it's apparently illogical reasoning, I think the result it will produce will probably be the best available and welcome it. Not that I wouldn't have welcomed a complete ban of course.

[BASE813 0]

being a UKer, and a towney (no I am not a chav) and being someone who smokes when they go out for a beer - I think the ban is a good thing............ even as a smoker!

[lawrocket 3]

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This regulation is supposed to protect people at work - the idea is to ban smoking in the work place and thus ensure no one is forced to endure passive smoke at work... why the ban based on food service then?

You're an attorney, use your reasonable inferences here. The ban is not about "protecting people at the workplace." If it was about that, they would not be exempting workplaces from it.

So, inferences possible:

1) Bartenders and barmaids are not worth protecting. This is unlikely.

2) People will not go along with a ban in pubs, where they want to get drunk, smoke and have a good time. (Makes sense - gotta be pragmatic here)

3) It's not about healthy workplaces so much as it is about destroying the tobacco companies. (This makes even more sense. Leave the door slightly ajar, and slam it later).

This process of slowly eroding is exemplified by what happened here in the US. Smoking was initially banned from flights of two hours or less. Then 4 hours. Then all domestic US flights. Then airports. Then public buildings. Then public areas. Then private property restaurants. Then private property bars.

I like the language about "no right to harm others." So long as they're not in a pub, right?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I am a reformed smoker and love that here in Toronto I can go out and not have to sit a room filled with smoke. I don't agree with the smoking ban though.

Now they are talking about banning smoking in the car when a minor is in the car as well....where the hell does it end?

[jakee 1,556]

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Pub food can be outright delicious. And an great social place

Thats exactly what I was getting at, where I live (rural) most of the village pubs do great food, from ploughmans and hot sandwiches at lunch to dedicated restaraunt quality food in the evening (but a heck of a lot cheaper
Dingley, I apologise for the suggestion that you were a townie but seriously, if you don't think pub food would be much of a loss then you were obviously going to the wrong pubs

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Zep 0]

They can ban smoking all they want, I shall smoke till I decide to give up
I wonder if people realise that when all the smokers are forced to stop the
government will have to look else where to recoup the lost revenue, Pay unemployment for the people who
lose thier jobs. Lost revenue for the pubs so barmen lose thier jobs
Don't answer with that tired old argument that the social security (IE: hospitals) will save money because there will be
less diseases assosiated with smoking. The taxes on tobacco and the tobacco industry more than pay for what it costs
the SS. The drain on the SS is people live to long and Imigrants importing diseases that the UK had eradicated



SMOKERS FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS

Gone fishing

[dingley 0]

Dingley, I apologise for the suggestion that you were a townie but seriously, if you don't think pub food would be much of a loss then you were obviously going to the wrong pubs

***

No problem, Jakee. I'm sure you're right. I was trying to distract myself from some work that I don't want to do, and posted before thinking.

I think it's all been said here. The demise of large-scale smoking will be gradual, and has to start with places where non-smokers suffer. I heard someone from a pro-smoking lobby the other day, suggesting that people were suffering in smoke-free pubs because, suddenly, they could smell their fellow drinkers' body odour. How desperate is that?

Yeah, it brings in massive tax revenue, but it's a major health issue. Yes, smokers (and I'm one of them) pay more towards the health service than they take out (probably), but that doesn't really justify the kind of freedoms the smoking lobby think they deserve. I remember having smoke breathed in my face in hospitals, schools and libraries as a kid (really). Thankfully, we've moved on.

And night clubs...yeah, they're horrible. It's almost like it's compulsory to smoke in some of them and, because you have to shout, you end up choking. Ah, English night-life.

BAN EVERYTHING

[SpeedRacer 1]

who cares, cigs stink & taste bad. if you wanna smoke fine, but don't make me smoke along with you.

wear a fishbowl over your head when you smoke or something.

Speed Racer
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[CornishChris 5]

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So, once again, Europe following America's lead?

Actually it is true that the only reason the UK is doing this is because America does. We employ loads of government officials to sit and look through American laws to decide which we should implement ourselves.

Thanks America for making our pubs smoke free, we would never have thought of it ourselves.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Ian84 0]

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They've already done it in Ireland. And the Irish took to it surprisingly well.

Yep, and I think its great. You can go out clubbing and wake up in the same clothes the next day not stinking of smoke. My mates who smoke also like it cause they get to go outside and mingle (pick up chicks). Plus a load of people i know have cut down on smoking as a result of the ban.

• Quote

[BANANAFINGER 0]

As a smoker I support the idea; never had any problem over in Boston last year at a friends wedding, but then again, I find that if I am out with non-smokers I smoke a lot less anyway. Must be some sort of psychological thing, if I'm around people smoking I tend to smoke more. Other than that I only tend to smoke at work (where a lot of the people I work with smoke, and it gets me out of the office.....) and when I've got a beer (still find it too wet without one)

Experience is a series of non-fatal errors.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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90% + of our pubs serve food. That's where all the money is in the industry - if they stopped serving food they'd stop turning a profit.

The ban's good... I really look forward to seeing it come into force. We're technically kinda following Irelands lead... them and Scotland.

Lots of people rank on British food, but I have to say that I LOVED British pub food when I was there. I know I rip on the politics in England, but I enjoyed the "take-away" joints with chips in a paper cone with malt vinegar pooled at the bottom, and pastry-wrapped sausages, and shepherd's pie... (The one thing I couldn't stomach was a steak-and-kidney pie I had at the school's refectory one day. It actually smelled and tasted of urine.)

I think I feel that a ban on public smoking in enclosed places is a good thing. I generally am libertarian about such things, but don't think smoking should really be a protected activity, because unlike most, it cannot be kept to oneself.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I'm a smoker, banning smoking in pubs is a good idea IMHO, here's why.

Under the Health and Safety at work act, it is the employer's responsibility to protect its workforce from the hazards of their workplace.
It has been shown that passive smoking is dangerous to non-smokers. Ergo illness from passive smoking becomes an industrial disease.

How can pub landlords protect their bar staff from passive smoking, and also protect themselves from compensation claims down the line when their bar staff start suffering from smoking related illness?
So we either double/triple/quadruple the price of our already expensive beer to cover the insurance companies inevitable hikes, or we remove the hazard from the workplace.

And it will help me cut down/stop smoking, and thats a good thing, right?


"I think I feel that a ban on public smoking in enclosed places is a good thing. I generally am libertarian about such things, but don't think smoking should really be a protected activity, because unlike most, it cannot be kept to oneself."

Its nice to agree with Jeffrey for a change.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Paulipod 0]

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(The one thing I couldn't stomach was a steak-and-kidney pie I had at the school's refectory one day. It actually smelled and tasted of urine.)

Thats cus you pissed off the chef with your political views - nothing to do with the pie

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk