pajarito 0 #101 November 16, 2004 QuoteBy the way, that marine is not a heroe. If you think he is, it would be you who disrespects all your country heroes. See, that's the problem. You see this video and have judged the soldier. You weren't there. You don't know. But since you and everyone else in the world have seen it and most have judged this person, public opinion becomes a factor in his guilt or innocence. That should not be part of the equation. Especially in combat where the lines between what is right or wrong aren’t always clear. Cameras videotape their every move. It's not for their benefit. It's to sensationalize stories for the media. Negative stories are more likely to get covered. They're looking for any mistake they can find in order to fry someone. I was taught in my military training that anything and everything could be booby trapped including bodies. I was taught how to booby trap things that you wouldn’t suspect. I've had friends killed by improvised munitions. One recently. It should be up to the military leadership to deal with this and not you and everybody else on dz.com. Reporters should cover the war but from the rear. Things you see on video aren’t always what or how they seem to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #102 November 16, 2004 Wendy. You rock. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #103 November 16, 2004 QuoteI agree with you. But two wrongs still do not make a right. But your definition of a terrorist I believe is flawed. And it also seems that throughout history, one man's terrorism is another man's heroism. No hero ever blew up bus full of civilians on their way to work, or cut off a charity workers head to make a point.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #104 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteI agree with you. But two wrongs still do not make a right. But your definition of a terrorist I believe is flawed. And it also seems that throughout history, one man's terrorism is another man's heroism. No hero ever blew up bus full of civilians on their way to work, or cut off a charity workers head to make a point. Dude, you don't get it. To them, those are heroic acts. Unless we understand that, we'll never defeat them. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #105 November 16, 2004 QuoteDude, you don't get it. To them, those are heroic acts. Unless we understand that, we'll never defeat them. Bingo! I think that's a very good point. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #106 November 16, 2004 QuoteDude, you don't get it. To them, those are heroic acts. Unless we understand that, we'll never defeat them. I do get it. I know they think these are heroic acts. However, I happen to know right from wrong, and knowingly blowing up innocent civilians is wrong. Paint it any colour you like, its still terrorism.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #107 November 16, 2004 QuoteNo hero ever blew up bus full of civilians on their way to work, or cut off a charity workers head to make a point. What about intentionally bombing and killing the civilian inhabitants of large cities in order to convince the country to surrender? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #108 November 16, 2004 I give up. Maybe terrorism is the way ahead. I sometimes wish I never read SC.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtpilot 0 #109 November 16, 2004 Im sure there is much that we dont see. Thank God for that. I wish the journalist werent allowed out there anyways. They think that they can go out into a war zone and expect to be protected and then they attack us with stupid stuff like the article that you wrote about. There are rules of war and they should be followed but when you dont know if that dead or alive body is going to kill you, I would peronally like to make sure he is dead. Get the press out!!! Let the jar heads take care of the job like they were trained and get us outta there. Thanks to the Warriors who sacrific their lives for our freedom. "Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #110 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuote God help the man that disrespects one of our countries heroes the way you did while they are in arms reach of me. Because just as I've personally fought to protect that freedom of speech I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take it away, in my own manner. Is that a threat? By the way, that marine is not a heroe. If you think he is, it would be you who disrespects all your country heroes. It's not a threat its a guarentee, and that marine is a hero, he did what he felt he had to do so that he and his friends could continue the fight. I see how easy it is for you to talk all this trash about my Marines being so far away living in a cowardly country that backed out of the war.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #111 November 16, 2004 QuoteMaybe terrorism is the way ahead. I don't think anyone is saying that. I certainly would not agree with that statement. But I think if we do not try to understand the driving forces behind these people's actions, we'll never get out of Iraq, and certainly will not defeat them. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #112 November 16, 2004 QuoteMaybe terrorism is the way ahead. Point is that terrorism has always been around and always will be. It's just called different things and the definition changes based on hindsite, foresite, current events and which side you're on. That's why a "war on terror" is such a ridiculous notion. And classifying the killing of other humans based on method or intention doesn't change the fact that those people are dead. We need a war against hate, enmity, ignorance and arrogance. Except war is made up of those things. The only way to stop killing each other is to try to understand each other. We will NEVER win a war on terrorism. It is impossible. We should punish those who commit acts of murder or terror, but a global pre-emptive policy of military action is the wrong path. We shouldn't give in to terrorists. But we should try to understand why certain peoples hate us to the point that members of their culutre are willing to become terrorists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtpilot 0 #113 November 16, 2004 GQ, as long as that marine was over there he is a hero! Now he may have violated laws but that is up to the courts to decide. Remember it was a journalist that made the video and may not know the whole story. But all the people over there are heros!!!! "Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #114 November 16, 2004 Quoteit could be said the US uses guerilla warfare right now. We don't exactly line up and fire at eachother anymore!!!! Okay. Who here has ever seen "Red Dawn?" You know, the Russians invade some small Colorado town, a group of kids form a guerilla cel. They ambush, bomb, execute, etc. Who else cheered that movie? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtpilot 0 #115 November 16, 2004 Just watche Red Dawn 3 days ago...awsome movie! "Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtpilot 0 #116 November 16, 2004 The military keeps secrets for a reason. "Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #117 November 16, 2004 >but the New Testament speaks against an eye for an eye and preaches forgiveness. . . . . and uses an instrument of torture and execution as its symbol. If you are looking for the good in any religion you'll find it; if you're looking for the bad you'll find that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #118 November 16, 2004 >To them, those are heroic acts. And to some here (per what they have posted) shooting a wounded, helpless man in the head is heroic. A lot depends on what your point of view is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #119 November 16, 2004 Read up a bit on your history. The parallels you attempt to make are not at all well founded. There is no stronger army and weaker army here. There is no weaker army. There are insurgents from several different countries carrying out terrorist attacks against not only US forces but Iraqi citizens as well. With regards to your comments to GS, you might want to rephrase it this way: If you saw a US Special Forces soldier who had just been wounded in a firefight with a hostile force, scant days after other US Special Forces soldiers pretended to be dead in order to ambush that hostile force AND had booby-trapped dead bodies in attempts to kill members of the same aforementioned hostile force, lying wounded and then shot by a member of the hypothetical hostile force, how would you feel? Sounds a bit different, eh? Perhaps the Marine made a mistake - I have yet to see the video so I'm withholding my final opinion until I have. Check up on your history and get back to us. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #120 November 16, 2004 QuoteThere are insurgents from several different countries Are you still using this tired old line even though every military report I've seen, including the one about who was captured and killed in Falluja, states that foreigners are almost non-existent and the vast majority of insurgents are Iraqis. Not only that, but now you're calling insurgent attacks against US forces "terrorist attacks"? So, please tell me, what is the definition of "terrorist" du jour? It now includes those who target military occupying forces? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #121 November 16, 2004 You read military reports? I think not. You read reports given my military/DoD officials to the press. Al Zarqawi is not an Iraqi and has been fighting in Iraq. Odd that such a prominent terrorist would be there and you say such a thing. Perhaps you should read up a bit more. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #122 November 16, 2004 QuoteYou read military reports? I think not. You read reports given my military/DoD officials to the press. Correct, poor wording on my part. I read the reports given to the media by the military. That less credible? QuoteAl Zarqawi is not an Iraqi and has been fighting in Iraq. Odd that such a prominent terrorist would be there and you say such a thing. I didn't say there aren't any, I said the VAST MAJORITY of insurgents are Iraqis. How is naming one non-Iraqi, disputing that? I ask again....are attacks against military forces that have invaded and are occupying your homeland now considered terrrorism? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #123 November 17, 2004 Quote It's not a threat its a guarentee, I will show a bit of class and not fall for it, but the come-back is quite obvius. Quoteand that marine is a hero, he did what he felt he had to do so that he and his friends could continue the fight. Dude, that guy is being investigated for shooting someone in the head. You seem to have a very loose definition of what a Hero should be. QuoteI see how easy it is for you to talk all this trash about my Marines being so far away Dude, it is not me who is making threats 5000 miles away. Quoteliving in a cowardly country that backed out of the war. I wish Mr puppet Aznar had been man enough or not so greedy to say no to Mr warlord Bush in his oily adventure but he didn´t. Do yourself a favour and research some history about Spain in the past 2 years and you will see where Spain stands and how innacurate of your last comment. The worst that can happen is that you learn some history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #124 November 17, 2004 Quote>To them, those are heroic acts. And to some here (per what they have posted) shooting a wounded, helpless man in the head is heroic. A lot depends on what your point of view is. Personally, I don't think it's heroic - it simply is what it is. The camera doesn't always tell the whole story. The hearing will reveal the truth. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #125 November 17, 2004 >The hearing will reveal the truth. The hearing will reveal what the military wants it to reveal. As many others here have said many times, often we are not privy to what really goes on at such events. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
