storm1977 0 #26 November 16, 2004 QuoteLook at that - you and I can agree on something!! It doesn't surprise me that much...... ok yes it does Just because we differ on social issues and forign policy doesn't mean we can't share some common sense. If the stories of this soldier are true, it is a shame he did what he did. However, I would never call him a murderer... This is war, and I am sure he felt his life was in danger. If I were there, there is a good chance I would make the same call. On the bright side... He will get some time off from the front lines. I am sure the mental anguish and fear have taken their toll... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #27 November 16, 2004 Right or wrong, I think the news cameras and reporters need to get the f%@k out of the way. It's gotten way out of control. They're only there to sensationalize stories for the media and they're all just looking for our own guys to mess up so they can hang them. I'm not saying this guy was right. I'm just saying that it's hard to fight a war with a camera looking over your shoulder. The military should police its own. I used to kick the BBC reporters out every chance I got in Afghanistan. They're a lliability. Nothing else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #28 November 16, 2004 This movie quote is oddly appropriate: "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." -Martin Sheen, Apocalypse Now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #29 November 16, 2004 QuoteChristianity has its root in the New Testament which teaches love, tollerance, and forgiveness. What does that have to do with Christian Fundamentalists? My observations have been that they are some of the least Christian people out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #30 November 16, 2004 I agree, he will probably walk free, not that what he did was right, but this is a result of the actions taken by the insurgents. The tactics they have used to kill our troops makes this soldiers actions at the very least understandable, but not nesesarily correct. ***Quote Here you are speaking of cause and effect. The Insurgents (or the Iraqi people who don’t want us there) and there tactics are the reason this soldier fired a shot in this wounded mans head, and then said “he is dead now”. If you want to look at cause and effect what do you think is the main cause of every thing that is going on in Iraq? That kind of thinking goes both ways.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #31 November 16, 2004 QuoteRight or wrong, I think the news cameras and reporters need to get the f%@k out of the way. It's gotten way out of control. They're only there to sensationalize stories for the media and they're all just looking for our own guys to mess up so they can hang them. I'm not saying this guy was right. I'm just saying that it's hard to fight a war with a camera looking over your shoulder. The military should police its own. I used to kick the BBC reporters out every chance I got in Afghanistan. They're a lliability. Nothing else. I disagree with you 100%. I think they should show everything. I wish they had cameras every where and made every single person who is so pro war watch. I wish they would make them listen to the children, mothers, wives, and husbands cries. I think it would be a good thing if people actually knew what happens in a war. Maybe if they knew it is not a movie they would not make the decision to go to war so easily.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #32 November 16, 2004 Until you've been in combat, you cant judge, you cant know. Ask any whuffo what they'd do if they jumped and their gear failed. They wouldn't know, they aren't trained and they haven't been there in that situation before. Was he killed illegally? Unclear. Was he a terrorist insurgent? Undoubtably. Big boys rules.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #33 November 16, 2004 Quote disagree with you 100%. I think they should show everything.*** How many people think "Saving Private Ryan" should be shown? What makes it different from something real? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #34 November 16, 2004 QuoteI disagree with you 100%. I think they should show everything. I wish they had cameras every where and made every single person who is so pro war watch. What about every soldier that is killed or injured trying to keep some fucking reporter from getting his head blown off, or every op that was compromised because of them. They may have a right to be there and to know, but they dont have a right to risk one single servicemans life. I hate those asspieces.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #35 November 16, 2004 What makes it different from something real?Quote Just that you know it's not real. It is easy to watch people die in a movie. But when you know the person when you know it is real it will make a bigger impact. I think there is too many people here who have no clue what war is like. There is no such thing as a clean war. Innocent people get killed, woman get raped, children lose limbs, and lives. I think we have too many people sitting on their ass who are pro war and have no clue what war is. We don't have to go back far too see people who were all for this war.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #36 November 16, 2004 Actually, I agree with you entirely. I probably didn't word that right, but I have a feeling there are people who think the brutality of war is OK to show if it's fiction, because a. none of those are real people b. movies generally show the enemy as being a whole lot worse The truth is the truth. It's only useful if you use it to improve. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites storm1977 0 #37 November 16, 2004 QuoteI agree, he will probably walk free, not that what he did was right, but this is a result of the actions taken by the insurgents. The tactics they have used to kill our troops makes this soldiers actions at the very least understandable, but not nesesarily correct. ***Quote Here you are speaking of cause and effect. The Insurgents (or the Iraqi people who don’t want us there) and there tactics are the reason this soldier fired a shot in this wounded mans head, and then said “he is dead now”. If you want to look at cause and effect what do you think is the main cause of every thing that is going on in Iraq? That kind of thinking goes both ways. ??? Do you even know this guy was Iraqi? Darius.... you need stop selling crazy around here... I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #38 November 16, 2004 QuoteBotellines, You seem to make a hobby of bashing everything that the US does as some sort of abomination, while everything that America's opponents do is apparently praiseworthy. You are trying to deny credit to my opinions by saying that i just bash the U.S no matter what. The good things that the U.S. does are quite clear and everybody knows them, so no need to state the obvius, and if i was to praise the U.S it would be in Bonfire, not Speakers Corner. If you look in my posts you will see that i mostly speak about the Iraq war, and therefore Bush, and the ocasional gun thread. Quote What are your thoughts on the Taliban, The PLO, & the Iraqi insurgents? All oppressed victims of the "Evil Empire." Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. QuoteYou hate everything about the US. We get it. We also do not care. Wrong, read the first paragraph. Quote[Careful wording to avoid "personal attack" prohibition]: Postings like yours are seen by most Americans as the equivalent of pestering gadflies...annoying at worst, but largely irrelevant.[/careful wording] It seems to be important enough for you to reply. QuoteUntil you are in the military and have served your counrty in the defense of freedom, your opinion is largely irrelevant. That is a cheap shot. How do you know i haven´t served in the military? are you aware that by law in Spain until not too long ago every male had to do for a year military service? Or do you mean that until i have actually fought a war my opinion is irrelevant. The funny thing is that the U.S has just gotten a taste of terrorism, yet most of you get all paranoid and scared and overreact. I have lived with terrorism for all my life, including a car bomb in a gas station 100 yards across my house and a train explosion in the very same station i use every morning, and still that is nothing compared with Ireland or Israel. How do you dared to say that i think terrorists are praiseworthy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #39 November 16, 2004 Quote I think that pretty much shows that U.S marine cowardice and that he is guilty of murder. Now the U.S military has a very good chance to get some distance from this incident by discharging that bastard from the army with dishonor and give him beetwen 20 years and lifetime of jail. Somehow i have the feeling he will get just a slap in the hand as usual. The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #40 November 16, 2004 Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. Would you kill innocent civillians? Booby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #41 November 16, 2004 QuoteIt does not make it right. But insinuation of "slap on the hand", when actually military investigation-court martial is a very serious business is quite laughable. Botellines just google up what is being done with those abusers at abu ghraib......it has been more than what you claim it was IMO...... [/Reply] I just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? Please, do make me wrong, and tell me that there is actually someone going to be in jail for 20+ years for that. QuoteI guess it is ok that they can go into a elementary school and wipe out children and teachers, yep, that is so cool...... No, it is not okay. And your sarcasm would have been alright if the coalition forces were not killing innocent children every other day. Just so you know an innocent children is an innocent children regardless of nationality and a bomb is a bomb regardless wether it is delivered by a truck or by a plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zep 0 #42 November 16, 2004 Somebody make my day. Tell me that reporter has become or will become as they so nicely put it these days COLLATERAL DAMAGE Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #43 November 16, 2004 Quote The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. You cannot have both. And specially the final joke, "well, he is now dead" doesn´t speak very well at their professionality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 November 16, 2004 Quote No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. So says the backyard general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #45 November 16, 2004 Quote Would you kill innocent civillians? I don´t see contractors as innocent civilians, or at least not innocent. They are supporting the war effort. Besides the U.S military is also killing innocent civilians QuoteBooby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me. It sounds like terrorism because that is how you can justify the collateral damage. If they had planes, tanks, and more military equipment, i asure you they wouln´t be doing those things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #46 November 16, 2004 QuoteSo says the backyard general. Good point, I realize it is easier said than done. However, it wasn´t me who said that it would be a short clean war and that all the Iraquis would love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #47 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow many innocents had their heads sliced off with a dull knife like a deli ham, on video?? Payback is a motherfucker. Should we fly an airplane into a building in another country? Payback may seem like the right thing at the time, but it only lowers you to the level of your enemy. I see a lot of moral equivalency presented in this forum, since a lot of libs, being non-judgemental, seem to think that all value systems are equal. That being said - so what? mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #48 November 16, 2004 I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? Quote Brother I have no idea what I would have done. I don’t claim that I do. I know I was against this war from the get go. It was a war that was started for no reason. You were speaking of a chain of events that lead to this solder being on the edge. I was simply pointing out that the chain you are looking at is longer then the insurgents dishonorable tactics.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #49 November 16, 2004 As far as I'm concerned - they can't die fast enough. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #50 November 16, 2004 "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." Agreed. I think the longer we are in this country (Iraq) the more similarities we may see between this "war" and the "police action" that we participated in a while ago. The worst part of this ugly incident is that it will be used to recruit more "insurgents" and strengthen the resolve of those already fighting against the occupation of their homeland. There will be other incidents, far worse, committed by both sides before we decide to pack our bags and go home.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Darius11 12 #31 November 16, 2004 QuoteRight or wrong, I think the news cameras and reporters need to get the f%@k out of the way. It's gotten way out of control. They're only there to sensationalize stories for the media and they're all just looking for our own guys to mess up so they can hang them. I'm not saying this guy was right. I'm just saying that it's hard to fight a war with a camera looking over your shoulder. The military should police its own. I used to kick the BBC reporters out every chance I got in Afghanistan. They're a lliability. Nothing else. I disagree with you 100%. I think they should show everything. I wish they had cameras every where and made every single person who is so pro war watch. I wish they would make them listen to the children, mothers, wives, and husbands cries. I think it would be a good thing if people actually knew what happens in a war. Maybe if they knew it is not a movie they would not make the decision to go to war so easily.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #32 November 16, 2004 Until you've been in combat, you cant judge, you cant know. Ask any whuffo what they'd do if they jumped and their gear failed. They wouldn't know, they aren't trained and they haven't been there in that situation before. Was he killed illegally? Unclear. Was he a terrorist insurgent? Undoubtably. Big boys rules.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #33 November 16, 2004 Quote disagree with you 100%. I think they should show everything.*** How many people think "Saving Private Ryan" should be shown? What makes it different from something real? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #34 November 16, 2004 QuoteI disagree with you 100%. I think they should show everything. I wish they had cameras every where and made every single person who is so pro war watch. What about every soldier that is killed or injured trying to keep some fucking reporter from getting his head blown off, or every op that was compromised because of them. They may have a right to be there and to know, but they dont have a right to risk one single servicemans life. I hate those asspieces.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #35 November 16, 2004 What makes it different from something real?Quote Just that you know it's not real. It is easy to watch people die in a movie. But when you know the person when you know it is real it will make a bigger impact. I think there is too many people here who have no clue what war is like. There is no such thing as a clean war. Innocent people get killed, woman get raped, children lose limbs, and lives. I think we have too many people sitting on their ass who are pro war and have no clue what war is. We don't have to go back far too see people who were all for this war.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #36 November 16, 2004 Actually, I agree with you entirely. I probably didn't word that right, but I have a feeling there are people who think the brutality of war is OK to show if it's fiction, because a. none of those are real people b. movies generally show the enemy as being a whole lot worse The truth is the truth. It's only useful if you use it to improve. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites storm1977 0 #37 November 16, 2004 QuoteI agree, he will probably walk free, not that what he did was right, but this is a result of the actions taken by the insurgents. The tactics they have used to kill our troops makes this soldiers actions at the very least understandable, but not nesesarily correct. ***Quote Here you are speaking of cause and effect. The Insurgents (or the Iraqi people who don’t want us there) and there tactics are the reason this soldier fired a shot in this wounded mans head, and then said “he is dead now”. If you want to look at cause and effect what do you think is the main cause of every thing that is going on in Iraq? That kind of thinking goes both ways. ??? Do you even know this guy was Iraqi? Darius.... you need stop selling crazy around here... I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #38 November 16, 2004 QuoteBotellines, You seem to make a hobby of bashing everything that the US does as some sort of abomination, while everything that America's opponents do is apparently praiseworthy. You are trying to deny credit to my opinions by saying that i just bash the U.S no matter what. The good things that the U.S. does are quite clear and everybody knows them, so no need to state the obvius, and if i was to praise the U.S it would be in Bonfire, not Speakers Corner. If you look in my posts you will see that i mostly speak about the Iraq war, and therefore Bush, and the ocasional gun thread. Quote What are your thoughts on the Taliban, The PLO, & the Iraqi insurgents? All oppressed victims of the "Evil Empire." Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. QuoteYou hate everything about the US. We get it. We also do not care. Wrong, read the first paragraph. Quote[Careful wording to avoid "personal attack" prohibition]: Postings like yours are seen by most Americans as the equivalent of pestering gadflies...annoying at worst, but largely irrelevant.[/careful wording] It seems to be important enough for you to reply. QuoteUntil you are in the military and have served your counrty in the defense of freedom, your opinion is largely irrelevant. That is a cheap shot. How do you know i haven´t served in the military? are you aware that by law in Spain until not too long ago every male had to do for a year military service? Or do you mean that until i have actually fought a war my opinion is irrelevant. The funny thing is that the U.S has just gotten a taste of terrorism, yet most of you get all paranoid and scared and overreact. I have lived with terrorism for all my life, including a car bomb in a gas station 100 yards across my house and a train explosion in the very same station i use every morning, and still that is nothing compared with Ireland or Israel. How do you dared to say that i think terrorists are praiseworthy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #39 November 16, 2004 Quote I think that pretty much shows that U.S marine cowardice and that he is guilty of murder. Now the U.S military has a very good chance to get some distance from this incident by discharging that bastard from the army with dishonor and give him beetwen 20 years and lifetime of jail. Somehow i have the feeling he will get just a slap in the hand as usual. The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #40 November 16, 2004 Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. Would you kill innocent civillians? Booby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #41 November 16, 2004 QuoteIt does not make it right. But insinuation of "slap on the hand", when actually military investigation-court martial is a very serious business is quite laughable. Botellines just google up what is being done with those abusers at abu ghraib......it has been more than what you claim it was IMO...... [/Reply] I just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? Please, do make me wrong, and tell me that there is actually someone going to be in jail for 20+ years for that. QuoteI guess it is ok that they can go into a elementary school and wipe out children and teachers, yep, that is so cool...... No, it is not okay. And your sarcasm would have been alright if the coalition forces were not killing innocent children every other day. Just so you know an innocent children is an innocent children regardless of nationality and a bomb is a bomb regardless wether it is delivered by a truck or by a plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zep 0 #42 November 16, 2004 Somebody make my day. Tell me that reporter has become or will become as they so nicely put it these days COLLATERAL DAMAGE Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #43 November 16, 2004 Quote The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. You cannot have both. And specially the final joke, "well, he is now dead" doesn´t speak very well at their professionality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 November 16, 2004 Quote No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. So says the backyard general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #45 November 16, 2004 Quote Would you kill innocent civillians? I don´t see contractors as innocent civilians, or at least not innocent. They are supporting the war effort. Besides the U.S military is also killing innocent civilians QuoteBooby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me. It sounds like terrorism because that is how you can justify the collateral damage. If they had planes, tanks, and more military equipment, i asure you they wouln´t be doing those things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #46 November 16, 2004 QuoteSo says the backyard general. Good point, I realize it is easier said than done. However, it wasn´t me who said that it would be a short clean war and that all the Iraquis would love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #47 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow many innocents had their heads sliced off with a dull knife like a deli ham, on video?? Payback is a motherfucker. Should we fly an airplane into a building in another country? Payback may seem like the right thing at the time, but it only lowers you to the level of your enemy. I see a lot of moral equivalency presented in this forum, since a lot of libs, being non-judgemental, seem to think that all value systems are equal. That being said - so what? mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #48 November 16, 2004 I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? Quote Brother I have no idea what I would have done. I don’t claim that I do. I know I was against this war from the get go. It was a war that was started for no reason. You were speaking of a chain of events that lead to this solder being on the edge. I was simply pointing out that the chain you are looking at is longer then the insurgents dishonorable tactics.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #49 November 16, 2004 As far as I'm concerned - they can't die fast enough. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #50 November 16, 2004 "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." Agreed. I think the longer we are in this country (Iraq) the more similarities we may see between this "war" and the "police action" that we participated in a while ago. The worst part of this ugly incident is that it will be used to recruit more "insurgents" and strengthen the resolve of those already fighting against the occupation of their homeland. There will be other incidents, far worse, committed by both sides before we decide to pack our bags and go home.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
wmw999 2,452 #36 November 16, 2004 Actually, I agree with you entirely. I probably didn't word that right, but I have a feeling there are people who think the brutality of war is OK to show if it's fiction, because a. none of those are real people b. movies generally show the enemy as being a whole lot worse The truth is the truth. It's only useful if you use it to improve. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #37 November 16, 2004 QuoteI agree, he will probably walk free, not that what he did was right, but this is a result of the actions taken by the insurgents. The tactics they have used to kill our troops makes this soldiers actions at the very least understandable, but not nesesarily correct. ***Quote Here you are speaking of cause and effect. The Insurgents (or the Iraqi people who don’t want us there) and there tactics are the reason this soldier fired a shot in this wounded mans head, and then said “he is dead now”. If you want to look at cause and effect what do you think is the main cause of every thing that is going on in Iraq? That kind of thinking goes both ways. ??? Do you even know this guy was Iraqi? Darius.... you need stop selling crazy around here... I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #38 November 16, 2004 QuoteBotellines, You seem to make a hobby of bashing everything that the US does as some sort of abomination, while everything that America's opponents do is apparently praiseworthy. You are trying to deny credit to my opinions by saying that i just bash the U.S no matter what. The good things that the U.S. does are quite clear and everybody knows them, so no need to state the obvius, and if i was to praise the U.S it would be in Bonfire, not Speakers Corner. If you look in my posts you will see that i mostly speak about the Iraq war, and therefore Bush, and the ocasional gun thread. Quote What are your thoughts on the Taliban, The PLO, & the Iraqi insurgents? All oppressed victims of the "Evil Empire." Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. QuoteYou hate everything about the US. We get it. We also do not care. Wrong, read the first paragraph. Quote[Careful wording to avoid "personal attack" prohibition]: Postings like yours are seen by most Americans as the equivalent of pestering gadflies...annoying at worst, but largely irrelevant.[/careful wording] It seems to be important enough for you to reply. QuoteUntil you are in the military and have served your counrty in the defense of freedom, your opinion is largely irrelevant. That is a cheap shot. How do you know i haven´t served in the military? are you aware that by law in Spain until not too long ago every male had to do for a year military service? Or do you mean that until i have actually fought a war my opinion is irrelevant. The funny thing is that the U.S has just gotten a taste of terrorism, yet most of you get all paranoid and scared and overreact. I have lived with terrorism for all my life, including a car bomb in a gas station 100 yards across my house and a train explosion in the very same station i use every morning, and still that is nothing compared with Ireland or Israel. How do you dared to say that i think terrorists are praiseworthy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #39 November 16, 2004 Quote I think that pretty much shows that U.S marine cowardice and that he is guilty of murder. Now the U.S military has a very good chance to get some distance from this incident by discharging that bastard from the army with dishonor and give him beetwen 20 years and lifetime of jail. Somehow i have the feeling he will get just a slap in the hand as usual. The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #40 November 16, 2004 Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. Would you kill innocent civillians? Booby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #41 November 16, 2004 QuoteIt does not make it right. But insinuation of "slap on the hand", when actually military investigation-court martial is a very serious business is quite laughable. Botellines just google up what is being done with those abusers at abu ghraib......it has been more than what you claim it was IMO...... [/Reply] I just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? Please, do make me wrong, and tell me that there is actually someone going to be in jail for 20+ years for that. QuoteI guess it is ok that they can go into a elementary school and wipe out children and teachers, yep, that is so cool...... No, it is not okay. And your sarcasm would have been alright if the coalition forces were not killing innocent children every other day. Just so you know an innocent children is an innocent children regardless of nationality and a bomb is a bomb regardless wether it is delivered by a truck or by a plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zep 0 #42 November 16, 2004 Somebody make my day. Tell me that reporter has become or will become as they so nicely put it these days COLLATERAL DAMAGE Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #43 November 16, 2004 Quote The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. You cannot have both. And specially the final joke, "well, he is now dead" doesn´t speak very well at their professionality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 November 16, 2004 Quote No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. So says the backyard general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #45 November 16, 2004 Quote Would you kill innocent civillians? I don´t see contractors as innocent civilians, or at least not innocent. They are supporting the war effort. Besides the U.S military is also killing innocent civilians QuoteBooby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me. It sounds like terrorism because that is how you can justify the collateral damage. If they had planes, tanks, and more military equipment, i asure you they wouln´t be doing those things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #46 November 16, 2004 QuoteSo says the backyard general. Good point, I realize it is easier said than done. However, it wasn´t me who said that it would be a short clean war and that all the Iraquis would love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #47 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow many innocents had their heads sliced off with a dull knife like a deli ham, on video?? Payback is a motherfucker. Should we fly an airplane into a building in another country? Payback may seem like the right thing at the time, but it only lowers you to the level of your enemy. I see a lot of moral equivalency presented in this forum, since a lot of libs, being non-judgemental, seem to think that all value systems are equal. That being said - so what? mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #48 November 16, 2004 I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? Quote Brother I have no idea what I would have done. I don’t claim that I do. I know I was against this war from the get go. It was a war that was started for no reason. You were speaking of a chain of events that lead to this solder being on the edge. I was simply pointing out that the chain you are looking at is longer then the insurgents dishonorable tactics.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #49 November 16, 2004 As far as I'm concerned - they can't die fast enough. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #50 November 16, 2004 "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." Agreed. I think the longer we are in this country (Iraq) the more similarities we may see between this "war" and the "police action" that we participated in a while ago. The worst part of this ugly incident is that it will be used to recruit more "insurgents" and strengthen the resolve of those already fighting against the occupation of their homeland. There will be other incidents, far worse, committed by both sides before we decide to pack our bags and go home.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Botellines 0 #38 November 16, 2004 QuoteBotellines, You seem to make a hobby of bashing everything that the US does as some sort of abomination, while everything that America's opponents do is apparently praiseworthy. You are trying to deny credit to my opinions by saying that i just bash the U.S no matter what. The good things that the U.S. does are quite clear and everybody knows them, so no need to state the obvius, and if i was to praise the U.S it would be in Bonfire, not Speakers Corner. If you look in my posts you will see that i mostly speak about the Iraq war, and therefore Bush, and the ocasional gun thread. Quote What are your thoughts on the Taliban, The PLO, & the Iraqi insurgents? All oppressed victims of the "Evil Empire." Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. QuoteYou hate everything about the US. We get it. We also do not care. Wrong, read the first paragraph. Quote[Careful wording to avoid "personal attack" prohibition]: Postings like yours are seen by most Americans as the equivalent of pestering gadflies...annoying at worst, but largely irrelevant.[/careful wording] It seems to be important enough for you to reply. QuoteUntil you are in the military and have served your counrty in the defense of freedom, your opinion is largely irrelevant. That is a cheap shot. How do you know i haven´t served in the military? are you aware that by law in Spain until not too long ago every male had to do for a year military service? Or do you mean that until i have actually fought a war my opinion is irrelevant. The funny thing is that the U.S has just gotten a taste of terrorism, yet most of you get all paranoid and scared and overreact. I have lived with terrorism for all my life, including a car bomb in a gas station 100 yards across my house and a train explosion in the very same station i use every morning, and still that is nothing compared with Ireland or Israel. How do you dared to say that i think terrorists are praiseworthy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #39 November 16, 2004 Quote I think that pretty much shows that U.S marine cowardice and that he is guilty of murder. Now the U.S military has a very good chance to get some distance from this incident by discharging that bastard from the army with dishonor and give him beetwen 20 years and lifetime of jail. Somehow i have the feeling he will get just a slap in the hand as usual. The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #40 November 16, 2004 Why are you putting in the same sentence Taliban, the PLO, and Iraqi insurgents? Taliban terrorist should be eliminated, but Iraqui insurgents are trying to get Irak back from the U.S, so i wouldn´t label them as terrorists, as many of us would fight an opressing force that tries to take over our country. Many people seem to think that Enemy equals Terrorist. Would you kill innocent civillians? Booby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #41 November 16, 2004 QuoteIt does not make it right. But insinuation of "slap on the hand", when actually military investigation-court martial is a very serious business is quite laughable. Botellines just google up what is being done with those abusers at abu ghraib......it has been more than what you claim it was IMO...... [/Reply] I just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? Please, do make me wrong, and tell me that there is actually someone going to be in jail for 20+ years for that. QuoteI guess it is ok that they can go into a elementary school and wipe out children and teachers, yep, that is so cool...... No, it is not okay. And your sarcasm would have been alright if the coalition forces were not killing innocent children every other day. Just so you know an innocent children is an innocent children regardless of nationality and a bomb is a bomb regardless wether it is delivered by a truck or by a plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zep 0 #42 November 16, 2004 Somebody make my day. Tell me that reporter has become or will become as they so nicely put it these days COLLATERAL DAMAGE Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #43 November 16, 2004 Quote The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. You cannot have both. And specially the final joke, "well, he is now dead" doesn´t speak very well at their professionality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 November 16, 2004 Quote No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. So says the backyard general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #45 November 16, 2004 Quote Would you kill innocent civillians? I don´t see contractors as innocent civilians, or at least not innocent. They are supporting the war effort. Besides the U.S military is also killing innocent civilians QuoteBooby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me. It sounds like terrorism because that is how you can justify the collateral damage. If they had planes, tanks, and more military equipment, i asure you they wouln´t be doing those things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #46 November 16, 2004 QuoteSo says the backyard general. Good point, I realize it is easier said than done. However, it wasn´t me who said that it would be a short clean war and that all the Iraquis would love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #47 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow many innocents had their heads sliced off with a dull knife like a deli ham, on video?? Payback is a motherfucker. Should we fly an airplane into a building in another country? Payback may seem like the right thing at the time, but it only lowers you to the level of your enemy. I see a lot of moral equivalency presented in this forum, since a lot of libs, being non-judgemental, seem to think that all value systems are equal. That being said - so what? mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #48 November 16, 2004 I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? Quote Brother I have no idea what I would have done. I don’t claim that I do. I know I was against this war from the get go. It was a war that was started for no reason. You were speaking of a chain of events that lead to this solder being on the edge. I was simply pointing out that the chain you are looking at is longer then the insurgents dishonorable tactics.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #49 November 16, 2004 As far as I'm concerned - they can't die fast enough. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #50 November 16, 2004 "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." Agreed. I think the longer we are in this country (Iraq) the more similarities we may see between this "war" and the "police action" that we participated in a while ago. The worst part of this ugly incident is that it will be used to recruit more "insurgents" and strengthen the resolve of those already fighting against the occupation of their homeland. There will be other incidents, far worse, committed by both sides before we decide to pack our bags and go home.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Zep 0 #42 November 16, 2004 Somebody make my day. Tell me that reporter has become or will become as they so nicely put it these days COLLATERAL DAMAGE Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #43 November 16, 2004 Quote The replay on the morning show today also added that the squad lost a man the day before to a boobytrapped body. That sort of tactic tends to encourage this sort of response. Also greatly discredits your description of cowardice and murder. No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. You cannot have both. And specially the final joke, "well, he is now dead" doesn´t speak very well at their professionality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #44 November 16, 2004 Quote No, it does not. Do you want to play safe? Nuke Iraq and start over. Do you want to have the moral high ground? you will have to take some risks and do a much better job at discriminating who to kill. So says the backyard general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #45 November 16, 2004 Quote Would you kill innocent civillians? I don´t see contractors as innocent civilians, or at least not innocent. They are supporting the war effort. Besides the U.S military is also killing innocent civilians QuoteBooby trap dead comrades? Wave a white flag then open fire? Car bomb government officals from opposing parties? Sounds like terrorism to me. It sounds like terrorism because that is how you can justify the collateral damage. If they had planes, tanks, and more military equipment, i asure you they wouln´t be doing those things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #46 November 16, 2004 QuoteSo says the backyard general. Good point, I realize it is easier said than done. However, it wasn´t me who said that it would be a short clean war and that all the Iraquis would love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #47 November 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow many innocents had their heads sliced off with a dull knife like a deli ham, on video?? Payback is a motherfucker. Should we fly an airplane into a building in another country? Payback may seem like the right thing at the time, but it only lowers you to the level of your enemy. I see a lot of moral equivalency presented in this forum, since a lot of libs, being non-judgemental, seem to think that all value systems are equal. That being said - so what? mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #48 November 16, 2004 I know you, we met, you are good guy, but seriously you need to back off this one and look at the big picture. What would you have done? Quote Brother I have no idea what I would have done. I don’t claim that I do. I know I was against this war from the get go. It was a war that was started for no reason. You were speaking of a chain of events that lead to this solder being on the edge. I was simply pointing out that the chain you are looking at is longer then the insurgents dishonorable tactics.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #49 November 16, 2004 As far as I'm concerned - they can't die fast enough. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #50 November 16, 2004 "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." Agreed. I think the longer we are in this country (Iraq) the more similarities we may see between this "war" and the "police action" that we participated in a while ago. The worst part of this ugly incident is that it will be used to recruit more "insurgents" and strengthen the resolve of those already fighting against the occupation of their homeland. There will be other incidents, far worse, committed by both sides before we decide to pack our bags and go home.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Guest #49 November 16, 2004 As far as I'm concerned - they can't die fast enough. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #50 November 16, 2004 "Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500..." Agreed. I think the longer we are in this country (Iraq) the more similarities we may see between this "war" and the "police action" that we participated in a while ago. The worst part of this ugly incident is that it will be used to recruit more "insurgents" and strengthen the resolve of those already fighting against the occupation of their homeland. There will be other incidents, far worse, committed by both sides before we decide to pack our bags and go home.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
