Guest #26 November 17, 2004 I'm surprised they didn't cut her head off. I mean, what was stopping them? A sense of decency? mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #27 November 17, 2004 This one senseless act may do more to damage the insurgency than a month of attacks by US/UK forces.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #28 November 17, 2004 It will certainly be hard for Al-Jazeera to portray it as a courageous act by the "Brave Soldiers of Allah [tm]"... But they will anyway. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #29 November 17, 2004 Yes, but with the little press this is getting, in comparison to a soldier killing a combatant, and Al-Jazeera refusing to give more coverage to the story other than a simple mention, it won't get pass us most likely...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #30 November 17, 2004 QuoteI truly believe violonce only breeds more violence. We are watching it unfold everyday in Iraq. As the escalation grows, so do people's desperation and the lines of humanity become skewed. What will it take for someone to finally take a step back, look at the situation and try and truly (in a non reactionary way) assess how it got to be this bad. We can try and kill all the terrorists, but I guarantee we will never succeed. There will always be new people to continue this cycle of hate. So, your response to terrorist acts would be what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #31 November 17, 2004 QuoteSo, your response to terrorist acts would be what? One could argue that if the US had not invaded Iraq Margarat Hassan would not have been kidnapped and wouldn't be dead right now. That violent action of kidnapping her and killing her was in response to the violent action of invading a country. Hence the statement violence only breeds more violence. So, what terrorist act was responded to with the invasion of Iraq? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #32 November 17, 2004 yes and if a frog had wings he wouldn't be dragging his ass all over the ground "That violent action of kidnapping her and killing her was in response to the violent action of invading a country. Hence the statement violence only breeds more violence." So, is it okay what those spineless, gutless motherfuckers did to her then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #33 November 17, 2004 SHe deserved it according to the interpretation.. She was a Brit after all"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #34 November 17, 2004 QuoteSo, is it okay what those spineless, gutless motherfuckers did to her then? No off course not. It is despiccable. But it is a decent example of violence breeding more violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bizzylizzy 0 #35 November 17, 2004 No one said she deserved it, but why can we not step back and figure out why this is happening. The current smoke em out, shoot em up and drop 500lb bombs on them is not working. This is not an isolated incident, but an alarming pattern. We need to ask ourselves what drives another human being to kidnapp and behead/shoot in the head another human being, esp one who did nothing but good? What is making them so desperate and angry? What can we do to make unlikely that no other man or woman recieves such a fate? How do we stop the cycle?Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. -Dave Matthews Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #36 November 17, 2004 Get it, they never have done this before, have ever heard of Daniel Pearl? (prior Iraq), or the use and abuse of children to blow themselves, prior Iraq too, and the PLO, and AQ before Iraq? Yep, she deserved it, after all is all our fault."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #37 November 17, 2004 QuoteSHe deserved it according to the interpretation.. She was a Brit after all Actually she was an Iraqi citizen also... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bizzylizzy 0 #38 November 17, 2004 I think we all agree that her death is horrible. I think we all agree we would never want someone to live through the fate of her or those before her. And I hope we all agree that we would exhaust ever option available to us to make it so no other human being arrives at such a fate. To defeat our enemy we must understand what drives them.Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. -Dave Matthews Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 November 17, 2004 QuoteTo defeat our enemy we must understand what drives them. I'm still waiting to hear you state what your response to terrorist acts would be. As usual, when I ask this question of those who don't like the way we're doing things now, they go silent and have no response... The only thing I can surmise from this lack of response, is that they really don't have any workable alternative plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #40 November 17, 2004 Well, and if they do, they usually recommend us to run!, or maybe send them flowers, or open our minds..."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bizzylizzy 0 #41 November 17, 2004 Instead of jumping to emotional, violent reactionary measures, I think we need to take a step back and look at why it has come to this. Even if we put her murderers in jail or kill them, the problem is still there. I want to know where it comes from and how we can possibly try and change it through options other than violence.Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. -Dave Matthews Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #42 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteTo defeat our enemy we must understand what drives them. I'm still waiting to hear you state what your response to terrorist acts would be. As usual, when I ask this question of those who don't like the way we're doing things now, they go silent and have no response... The only thing I can surmise from this lack of response, is that they really don't have any workable alternative plan. Well, that's a simplistic analysis. Our friend Saddam Hussein, encouraged by US Ambassador April Glaspie, invades Kuwait. US/UN gets pissed and drives SH out. SH apparently complies with US/UN demands but doesn't provide paperwork to the liking of US, so US invades. Iraqis and their neighbors get pissed and fight back in the only way possible against a superpower. Meanwhile another violent sideshow goes on involving 9/11, Afghanistan, etc., but which has nothing to do with Iraq. The cycle of violence could have been stopped at almost any point. But the only response of EITHER SIDE has been more violence.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #43 November 17, 2004 QuoteInstead of jumping to emotional, violent reactionary measures, I think we need to take a step back and look at why it has come to this. Even if we put her murderers in jail or kill them, the problem is still there. I want to know where it comes from and how we can possibly try and change it through options other than violence. In other words, you don't have an alternative plan. As I thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #44 November 17, 2004 QuoteOur friend Saddam Hussein, encouraged by US Ambassador April Glaspie, invades Kuwait. US/UN gets pissed and drives SH out. SH apparently complies with US/UN demands but doesn't provide paperwork to the liking of US, so US invades. Iraqis and their neighbors get pissed and fight back in the only way possible against a superpower. Meanwhile another violent sideshow goes on involving 9/11, Afghanistan, etc., but which has nothing to do with Iraq. The cycle of violence could have been stopped at almost any point. But the only response of EITHER SIDE has been more violence. When I refered to "terrorist acts", I wasn't focusing only on Iraq. That would also include Afganistan, and 9/11/01. The violence was started by Sadam Hussein. Given that, would you have recommended that no one do anything about his invasion and takeover of a neighboring country? What kind of a message would that send? It's funny that you mention Glaspie, because all she did was imply that the U.S. would do nothing if Iraq invaded Kuwait. And as you say, that is what emboldened Hussien to invade. What is funny about you bringing that up, is because this kind of "don't get involved" philosophy is exactly what so many of the anti-war folks here advocate. In other words, their philosophy is what allows dictators to run roughshod over other people. That's ironic. They're using that philosophy presumig it's a position of peace, when it fact it creates war. The only way to prevent war is to be in a position of strength, and to be prepared to use it if necessary to stop dictators. The strength of the U.S. military is the only thing holding dictators at bay around the world. Walk softly and carry a big stick! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bizzylizzy 0 #45 November 18, 2004 To answer your question directly, no I dont have an alternative plan to combat all terrorism, but that is something I have never suggested. I am commenting on the increasing violence, the seemingly endless cycle of viciousness and why arent we trying to understand where it is all coming from instead of reacting so quickly and violently. This would do both sides good. I believe the majority on either side want this needless loss of human life to end and might be willing to exhaust all options to do so.Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. -Dave Matthews Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #46 November 18, 2004 >In other words, you don't have an alternative plan. As I thought. Here's the current plan (from today's Washington Post) --------------------------- While at least 38 Marine and Army troops have died in a tough week of house-to-house fighting in Fallujah, that is not the hardest part of the U.S. counteroffensive against the Iraqi insurgency. The U.S. strategy in Iraq, Marine Col. T.X. Hammes observed in a recent interview, is a three-step process. "Clear out the insurgents, build up the Iraqi security forces, and then develop and install local governments in preparation for national elections," said Hammes, who served in the U.S. occupation authority in Iraq last winter. The second and third steps promise to be more difficult to take than the first, in part because they are largely beyond U.S. control. Yet those steps of "Iraqifying" security and politics are also the keys to the Bush administration's strategy for getting out of Iraq. And over the course of the 18 month-long insurgency, U.S. officials frequently have overestimated their progress, both in creating durable Iraqi police and military units and in laying the groundwork for Iraqi political control of the country. --------------------------------- Now, that may sound familiar to some of the older posters here; we had a similar plan a little while back: -------------------------------- The policy of the previous administration not only resulted in our assuming the primary responsibility for fighting the war, but even more significantly did not adequately stress the goal of strengthening the South Vietnamese so that they could defend themselves when we left. The Vietnamization plan was launched following Secretary Laird's visit to Vietnam in March. Under the plan, I ordered first a substantial increase in the training and equipment of South Vietnamese forces. -After 5 years of Americans going into Vietnam, we are finally bringing men home. By December 15, over 60,000 men will have been withdrawn from South Vietnam including 20 percent of all of our combat forces. -The South Vietnamese have continued to gain in strength. As a result they have been able to take over combat responsibilities from our American troops. ----------------------------------- Sadly, this was followed by 6 more years of war, 50,000 or so dead US soldiers, and defeat. Let's hope we don't copy those as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #47 November 18, 2004 QuoteIt is sad indeed, but I can't help to see the irony that a US soldiers kills a wounded COMBATANT, and everyone is on his case, even when he is already under investigation. In four hours that thread got 135 posts, this one hardly made anything more than 18 in double the time. Some in here will actually give these shitheads the benefit of doubt, and even think they hope they won't commit the stupidity of killing an innocent and helpful victim.... thus you see a graphic illustration of the difference between a 'terrorist' and an 'insurgent'. its not very likely to happen, but it would help if the media better represented, and people better understood the fact that we are not facing a single enemy force, but instead a number of separate, largely unrelated groups, who's primary connection is a shared enemy..... US. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #48 November 18, 2004 Unbelievable... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #49 November 18, 2004 This is probably a very bad move for the kidnappers. I find it hard to believe that the majority of Iraqi's would support this in any way. The only good thing about it might be some support for our cause over there. Nice to see that both sides make grave mistakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #50 November 18, 2004 QuoteI'm still waiting to hear you state what your response to terrorist acts would be. As usual, when I ask this question of those who don't like the way we're doing things now, they go silent and have no response... The only thing I can surmise from this lack of response, is that they really don't have any workable alternative plan. I asked you a question back and you are not answering it. Guess i should start surmising from that lack of response from you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
