180 Repack Cycle when does it start?

[donmayer 0]

I had always calculated my repack dates starting the 180 day count the next day after a repack day. Well I think that is incorrect. I'm thinking you must count the day of the repack as day number one. With that in mind Para-Gear's Repack Dial is not correct, and Skydive Orange's Reserve Repack Date Calculator is also not correct. Any comments. DMayer

[gowlerk 2,216]

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Any comments.

Only comment I have is, who cares?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skytribe 17]

In the event of a ramp check or incident - I guess the FAA/Lawyers might care.

That being said - my personal opinion is that if it is an issue with a single day being the issue then they are being rather critical and the regulations need to be more specific on start date.

That being said, I would consider the next day from the repack to be day 1.

[councilman24 37]

First remember you count backwards. Must be packed within the last 180 days. Given that I'd go one day ago = yesterday until you get to 180 days ago; last PREVIOUS day it could have been packed. I'll let someone else work out what that means to the calculators. Too lazy this morning.

I think that makes it they way you were doing it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[donmayer 0]

Most drop zone jump software counts the day of the repack, so if the rigger uses those devices from Para-Gear or Orange they will be off and the jumper thinking they might have another day will be grounded.

[pchapman 279]

Someone on facebook once posted two ParaGear calculators that disagreed with each other. Not sure what that was about.

Before the advent of DZ management software, did anyone really care about calculating 180 days exactly?? Well yeah, the FAA. But did DZ's give a damn?

Anywhere I've ever seen around where I am, if you got it packed January 15 then you'd be fine through July 15. Just add six months. Nobody cared about trying to calculate the number of days in each month relative to a nominal 30 day month.

But the big difference is I'm in Canada where the 180 day rule isn't from the feds, so we always had more latitude to break the rules a little.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi Peter,

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Just add six months.

That would put you in trouble here in the US.

This IMO is where the PIA should step in and petition the FAA to change the rule from 180 days to six months.

Hello, PIA, are you out there?

Jerry Baumchen

[DBCOOPER 5]

That's the way everything in US aviation works. Get you annual on July 1st and its good till July 31 the next year. Same thing with medicals. I think it's a hold over from the military and their stupid Julian calendar.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[mjosparky 4]

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I think it's a hold over from the military and their stupid Julian calendar.

Isn't that the same calendar we all use?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[rmarshall234 14]

Here is some of the verbiage from the Final Rule when the FAA changed the repack cycle to 180 days (Amendments Nos 91-305 and 105-13) which may be helpful.

We received numerous comments regarding the proposed change to the repack
interval. Some commenters suggested that in lieu of 180 days, the FAA should adopt a
6-month repack interval, and others suggested that the interval should be 6 calendar months.
We viewed these comments as favorable since the commenters did not express opposition
to the rule. The commenters merely stated their suggestions without providing a rationale
for them. The FAA, however, considers there to be a difference between 180 days, six
months, and six calendar months. The 180 days is a fixed period, whereas a 6-month
period could vary depending on the number of days in the 6 months. We will retain the
180-day repacking interval as proposed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like PIA already had a chance to weigh-in on this one.

And regarding the 180 day count...

Within 180 days before the date of its use, if its canopy, shroud, and
harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or similar synthetic fiber or material
that is substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, and other fungi, and other
rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I interpret this final comment as... 180 days, plus one. Anybody else agree or disagree?

[DBCOOPER 5]

Here you go...

The U.S. military sometimes uses a system, which they call "Julian date format"[12] that indicates the year and the actual day out of the 365 days of the year (and thus a designation of the month would not be needed). For example, "11 December 1999" can be written in some contexts as "1999345" or "99345", for the 345th day of 1999.[13] This system is most often used in US military logistics, since it makes the process of calculating estimated shipping and arrival dates easier. For example: say a tank engine takes an estimated 35 days to ship by sea from the US to Korea. If the engine is sent on 99104, it should arrive on 99139. Note that outside of the US military and some US government agencies, including the Internal Revenue Service, this format is usually referred to as "ordinal date", rather than "Julian date" [14]

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[peek 21]

rmarshall234

... I interpret this final comment as... 180 days, plus one. Anybody else agree or disagree?

I agree, except that should be "180 days plus almost one day"

Think of finishing the reserve pack job and filling out the log just after midnight on a particular day, and jumping it and landing just before midnight on day 181.

In other words you get almost a free day. Convoluted isn't it?

[councilman24 37]

The real answer is whatever the inspector looking at it says it is.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[rmarshall234 14]

councilman24

The real answer is whatever the inspector looking at it says it is.

Yep. Unfortunately.

[riggerrob 643]

.....

Anywhere I've ever seen around where I am, if you got it packed January 15 then you'd be fine through July 15. Just add six months. Nobody cared about trying to calculate the number of days in each month relative to a nominal 30 day month.
................................................................

Close enough for me. Smart skydivers bring thier reserves in for inspect and repack a couple of weeks before they are due ..... or a couple of weeks before the big boogie.

............................................................

But the big difference is I'm in Canada where the 180 day rule isn't from the feds, so we always had more latitude to break the rules a little.

......................................:......

The key point is: "break the rules a little."
As long as CSPA riggers follow best-business-practices, Transport Canada will stay out of regulating parachute riggers.

The last thing we want is Transport Canada meddling in parachute rigging because recent court testimony has shown that TC cannot be trusted to enforce CARs in Canadian airspace. TC has testified "we cannot be experts on FARS." Everything TC knows about parachutes can
be written on a single packing data card .... the edge of
A packing data card. The last thing we want is TC trying to regulate something they understand less than FARs.

On a practical note, few commercial pilots, aircraft mechanics or master parachute riggers can see the difference between FARs and CARs, but Crown Attorneys will cheerfully debate the subtle differences for eight or more years. GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

§105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems.
No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:

(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 180 days before the date of its use by a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certificated parachute rigger.

(b) The reserve parachute must have been packed by a certificated parachute rigger—

(1) Within 180 days before the date of its use, if its canopy, shroud, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or similar synthetic fiber or material that is substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, and other fungi, and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or

(2) Within 60 days before the date of its use, if it is composed of any amount of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or material not specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section.

(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device.

180 days prior to the date of its use. The inspector can argue all he wants but that's the black and white book answer.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[NovaTTT 2]

Quote

180 days prior to the date of its use. The inspector can argue all he wants but that's the black and white book answer.

I've always taken "prior" to mean "180 days from today", the day I close and seal the rig.

The abundance of online date calculators makes it easy to come up with the no later than 180 days from today date.

.02

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[dpreguy 14]

Ski and Councilman are correct. You count backwards from the midnight of the last day. 180 days. Period.

[Baksteen 84]

http://www.convertunits.com/dates/daysfromdate/ Just substract a day if you feel so inclined.

I'm not a rigger, but I still think it's way easier, not to mention way more practical to simply add six months to the repack date. Packed on feb 26 2016? You get to jump on august 26 2016. You win some, you lose some.

By the way; 180 days from feb 26 2016 is actually August 24th. By the logic in this thread the repack would expire on August 23rd.

To keep things simple: 180 days from feb 26 2017 is actually August 25th, so a rig repacked on feb 26 2017 would expire on August 24th.

Seriously, how complicated do we want to make this?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[gowlerk 2,216]

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Seriously, how complicated do we want to make this?

As complicated as the lawyers want to.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Baksteen 84]

gowlerk

Quote

Seriously, how complicated do we want to make this?

As complicated as the lawyers want to.

As if you can make any rule that some shady lawyer cannot complicate.

Might as well have something that's practical for us and work from there.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[theonlyski 8]

Baksteen

Seriously, how complicated do we want to make this?

You must've missed the FAA's motto:

"We're not happy till you're not happy."

Of course, there's also the internal one:

"Here at the FAA we've upped our standards, so up yours."

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message