JohnRich 4 #76 November 30, 2004 QuoteAnother strawman argument. The school district hasn't omitted the facts, with the notable exception of one teacher's class. Perhaps they were attempting to choose the lesser of two evils. It's painfully obvious to most that their isn't enough info to draw valid conclusions yet. It's also clear that you're not letting that stop you. I think that's a shame. By your own admission, there *is* one classroom full of kids who are not getting to see the full historical context. Also by your own admission, you don't have all the facts. Nowhere have I drawn and stated any conclusions on this issue. And yet you choose to denigrate me anyway. It seems to me that you are guilty of the same thing of which you falsely accuse me. Now that is the real shame... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #77 November 30, 2004 Quotethis kind of nonsense is just cementing the conservatives view that the left has gone too far. of course, this is also doing a LOT to keep conservatives in political power. More power to the left! When was the last time a conservative faction had political power in the US? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #78 November 30, 2004 QuoteAnd the liberals wonder why they lost the election. They didn't. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #79 November 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnd the liberals wonder why they lost the election. They didn't. Bush is a liberal??? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #80 November 30, 2004 QuoteBush is a liberal??? Absolutely. Progressive reform of government that includes greater intrusion of government into the lives of its citizens is liberalism. Republicans and democrats are both liberal factions; they're simply beholden to different interests. On one side are the poor, the environmentalists, and labor forces. On the other side are the wealthy, the fearful, and the deeply religious. Examples of republican driven liberalism include the war on drugs, the department of homeland security, and the attempts to outlaw abortion and gay marriage. Examples of democrat led liberalism include gun control laws, affirmative action & hate crime legislation, and environmental protection laws. They're simply different sides of the same coin. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #81 November 30, 2004 QuoteProgressive reform of government that includes greater intrusion of government into the lives of its citizens is liberalism. Where'd you get that from? I got this one from the dictionary, and it's my understanding of liberalism... A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #82 November 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteBush is a liberal??? Absolutely. Progressive reform of government that includes greater intrusion of government into the lives of its citizens is liberalism. Republicans and democrats are both liberal factions; they're simply beholden to different interests. On one side are the poor, the environmentalists, and labor forces. On the other side are the wealthy, the fearful, and the deeply religious. Examples of republican driven liberalism include the war on drugs, the department of homeland security, and the attempts to outlaw abortion and gay marriage. Examples of democrat led liberalism include gun control laws, affirmative action & hate crime legislation, and environmental protection laws. They're simply different sides of the same coin. Blues, Dave Sounds more like fascism to me. But then, I'm an anarchist at heart.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #83 December 1, 2004 QuoteI got this one from the dictionary, and it's my understanding of liberalism... A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority. Yeah, I've read that one as well (at dictionary.com), and by that definition I'm definitely a liberal. Unfortunately they also list Quoten 1: a political orientation that favors progress and reform By that definition I'm the opposite of a liberal. In my mind, "progress and reform" equals "there should be a law!", something that always seems to result in less autonomy of the individual, fewer civil liberties, and reduced protection from arbitrary authority. I'll admit that I've been a bit confused by the different definitions I've heard and read (these two seem a bit contradictory), not to mention the connotations invoked in everyday use of the word and its derivatives. I'll reserve my right to be wrong, however I like to be arumentative. :-) Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #84 December 1, 2004 Quotethat's exactly what I was saying. Someone else was arguing that the teacher couldn't be pushing his own religion because he taught about others. I said it was possible that someone could teach about other religions, and still claim theirs is true and the others aren't. I don't think a teacher has a right to claim that any particular religion is the truth while in a classroom, but the teacher referenced in this thread, while he does teach about other religions, may be claiming that his religion is the truth. they most certainly exist. i have had several, all very good teachers generally, but the way they instantly become defensive and offended when you correctly apply the term 'mythology' to their religious belief shows exactly how 'objective' they really are...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #85 December 1, 2004 QuoteBut then, I'm an anarchist at heart. Surely you jest.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #86 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteBut then, I'm an anarchist at heart. Surely you jest. Why? I believe the government should butt out of the peoples' lives to the greatest extent possible.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #87 December 1, 2004 and that USED to make you a conservative.... as in conservative use of govermental power..... amazing how the labels change isnt it...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #88 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteBut then, I'm an anarchist at heart. Surely you jest. Why? I believe the government should butt out of the peoples' lives to the greatest extent possible. Then you're the first anarchist I've ever heard of advocating gun control and saying people shouldn't be able to smoke in bars. Do you believe in public education? Any sort of welfare? Income taxes? Regulation of industry?--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #89 December 1, 2004 Quote In my mind, "progress and reform" equals "there should be a law!", I believe, for example, that abandoning the war on drugs and getting rid of those draconian laws would be progress and reform. You're equating progress with the progress of the federal gov't centralizing control. I view progress as a general move toward a better, more free society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #90 December 1, 2004 While I'd say you confused liberalism with socialism, I agree that the Repubs and Demos are basically two sides of the same coin. You just left out that it should be stamped with "no cash value." However, I'd have to disagree that Demos favor the poor anymore than the Repubs do. The Demos favor trial lawyers and PC ideals, while the Repubs favor doctors and moral/religious ideals. Also, I would say Demos are just as "fearful" as Repubs, just of different things. Demos fear guns. Repubs fear gays. etc etc etc. Both parties favor increased government size and control, and smaller civil areas in society. They just come at it from different angles. I learned the lesson early becuase I knew so many hunters. They were my first example of government sticking it to people from both sides. Demos wanted to take their guns and Repubs wanted to sell their lands. Democrats and Republicans. Two sides. One coin. No cash value. disclaimer: though I would prefer neither, when forced to choose, Repubs scare me less. I completely understand if people use the smae logic to reach the opposite conclusion. edit: however I reserve the right to argue ad nauseum witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #91 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut then, I'm an anarchist at heart. Surely you jest. Why? I believe the government should butt out of the peoples' lives to the greatest extent possible.Quote Then you're the first anarchist I've ever heard of advocating gun control and saying people shouldn't be able to smoke in bars. The last thing I wrote about guns was that the current 20,000 laws should be scrapped and replaced with one. That's hardly being anal about gun control. If people want to smoke, fine with me, but not where I have to breathe their fumes. Quote Do you believe in public education? Any sort of welfare? Income taxes? Regulation of industry? I don't see the current mixed system of eductation as workable in the long term. I work for a private school. There are some government functions that are essential, I didn't say I believed in NO government. I said the government should butt out of people's lives to the greatest extent possible. I see government as having a duty to help people starving on the streets, and to provide a police and defense and public health functions. I certainly don't believe in corporate welfare or laws that "protect" consenting adults from their own behavior (e.g drug laws, sodomy laws).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #92 December 1, 2004 QuoteWhile I'd say you confused liberalism with socialism, I agree that the Repubs and Demos are basically two sides of the same coin. You just left out that it should be stamped with "no cash value." However, I'd have to disagree that Demos favor the poor anymore than the Repubs do. The Demos favor trial lawyers Tell that to Jib. Quote and PC ideals, while the Repubs favor doctors and moral/religious ideals. Morals are an individual thing. What annoys me most about the right is its desire to impose institutionalized Christian morality on everyone. The Republicans also claim to be "conservative", while taking anti-conservative positions on a whole bunch of important issues, best exemplified by the growth in the federal government under this administration.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jib 0 #93 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhile I'd say you confused liberalism with socialism, I agree that the Repubs and Demos are basically two sides of the same coin. You just left out that it should be stamped with "no cash value." However, I'd have to disagree that Demos favor the poor anymore than the Repubs do. The Demos favor trial lawyers Tell that to Jib. I do both plaintiff and defense work. The dems do favor trial lawyers in general, but Mel Martinez Fla's newest Senator was a trial lawyer. I think he was even president of them in Fla. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #94 December 2, 2004 QuoteDemocrats and Republicans. Two sides. One coin. No cash value. disclaimer: though I would prefer neither, when forced to choose, Repubs scare me less. I completely understand if people use the smae logic to reach the opposite conclusion. edit: however I reserve the right to argue ad nauseum What he said...except the part about which group scares me less. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,106 #92 December 1, 2004 QuoteWhile I'd say you confused liberalism with socialism, I agree that the Repubs and Demos are basically two sides of the same coin. You just left out that it should be stamped with "no cash value." However, I'd have to disagree that Demos favor the poor anymore than the Repubs do. The Demos favor trial lawyers Tell that to Jib. Quote and PC ideals, while the Repubs favor doctors and moral/religious ideals. Morals are an individual thing. What annoys me most about the right is its desire to impose institutionalized Christian morality on everyone. The Republicans also claim to be "conservative", while taking anti-conservative positions on a whole bunch of important issues, best exemplified by the growth in the federal government under this administration.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #93 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhile I'd say you confused liberalism with socialism, I agree that the Repubs and Demos are basically two sides of the same coin. You just left out that it should be stamped with "no cash value." However, I'd have to disagree that Demos favor the poor anymore than the Repubs do. The Demos favor trial lawyers Tell that to Jib. I do both plaintiff and defense work. The dems do favor trial lawyers in general, but Mel Martinez Fla's newest Senator was a trial lawyer. I think he was even president of them in Fla. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #94 December 2, 2004 QuoteDemocrats and Republicans. Two sides. One coin. No cash value. disclaimer: though I would prefer neither, when forced to choose, Repubs scare me less. I completely understand if people use the smae logic to reach the opposite conclusion. edit: however I reserve the right to argue ad nauseum What he said...except the part about which group scares me less. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
