PhreeZone 20 #51 November 30, 2004 QuoteIf this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened Here in Ohio the DNR puts up tree stands for public use at a few of the larger areas. Perfectly legal to use, on a first come first hunt basis only though. Whos the fuck up for using those treestands? Jeffery you've already said that you don't hunt. I suggest that you actually go spend some time in the woods hunting some time. There are all sorts of laws and regulations about hunting, but when it comes to public lands its more of a free for all and its easy to see on opening day of a season morning.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #52 December 1, 2004 QuoteEven if he was unaware of tresspassing on the land, why would he comandeer someone else's tree stand without permission from the owner? Woudn't that be a form of trespassing all by itself? It's not all that uncommon to find deserted tree stands up here in Wisconsin. I have never heard what type of stand this was.(ladder type, Hanging, or a simple 2x4 or 2x6 framed permanent stand.) Although not legal to build these type of stands on public land, I would venture a quess that there are far more 2x4 type stands put up on both public and private land than commercial stands. I have lived in WI most of my life and have came across many unused abandoned tree stands. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #53 December 1, 2004 Quote It's not all that uncommon to find deserted tree stands up here in Wisconsin. I have lived in WI most of my life and have came across many unused abandoned tree stands. Suppose you decided to use one of these treestands. If someone came up to the tree and told you to get the hell out of their treestand, would you shoot them?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #54 December 1, 2004 QuoteSuppose you decided to use one of these treestands. If someone came up to the tree and told you to get the hell out of their treestand, would you shoot them? Now imagine that they were racially offensive and fired the first shot.....Would YOU kill them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #55 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteSuppose you decided to use one of these treestands. If someone came up to the tree and told you to get the hell out of their treestand, would you shoot them? Now imagine that they were racially offensive and fired the first shot.....Would YOU kill them? I guess the truth will come out in the final story.... Still, as I said earlier in the thread..... "poor impulse control".Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #56 December 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteSuppose you decided to use one of these treestands. If someone came up to the tree and told you to get the hell out of their treestand, would you shoot them? Now imagine that they were racially offensive and fired the first shot.....Would YOU kill them? Suppose someone was racially offensive and fired the first shot. Would you chase after everyone who had come to help him? Would you shoot them in the back while the ran away?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #57 December 1, 2004 Are you asking me? Why? That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #58 December 1, 2004 QuoteNow imagine that they were racially offensive and fired the first shot.....Would YOU kill them? Have you ever heard of the "sticks and stones" rule? Racially offensive language is not an excuse to use deadly force against someone. If the other guy shot first, then he could legitimately return fire in self-defense. However, since all the other witnesses are dead, all we have is *his* word that the other guy fired first. And even if you give him all of that benefit of the doubt, that doesn't change the fact that he chased down and shot in the back five other people who were unarmed. That's murder. Period. So regardless of how it started, he's guilty as hell of at least five counts of murder. Fry him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #59 December 1, 2004 QuoteAnd even if you give him all of that benefit of the doubt, that doesn't change the fact that he chased down and shot in the back five other people who were unarmed. That's murder. Period. So regardless of how it started, he's guilty as hell of at least five counts of murder. At this point how do we know that is fact? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #60 December 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteAnd even if you give him all of that benefit of the doubt, that doesn't change the fact that he chased down and shot in the back five other people who were unarmed. That's murder. Period. So regardless of how it started, he's guilty as hell of at least five counts of murder. At this point how do we know that is fact? Bodies on slabs with entry and exit wounds are pretty strong testament to this kind of thing. And an investigation that finds they were hit in the back, and that they were not armed at the time, that'll be the final nail in the coffin for this psycho. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #61 December 2, 2004 Quote And an investigation that finds they were hit in the back, and that they were not armed at the time, that'll be the final nail in the coffin for this psycho. -Jeffrey Your conclusion assumes he knew the people were unarmed. In a life or death situation prudence dictates that one neutralize any perceived threats. A real-time analysis could have led to a conclusion that the deceased were attempting to take cover and return fire, thereby rationalizing his response. Evidence indicating the deceased were shot execution style would of course negate this argument. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #62 December 2, 2004 >statisically, hunting is one of the safest sports you can particiapte in I think your source is a little off. Here are the news stories for fatal accidents for just the last 3 weeks: http://www.fox21.com/Global/story.asp?S=2621338&nav=2KPpTb5y 1 in SC http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=28499 1 in FL http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw107349_20041117.htm 1 in MI http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/20041201/localnews/1680271.html 1 in Ohio http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/newssummary/s_278535.html 1 in PA http://www.mariettatimes.com/news/story/121202004_new04deerr.asp Break down of hunting injuries just this week in Ohio.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #63 December 2, 2004 So hunting accidents make the news. That in and of itself shows that they are not common. When is that last time you saw a news report about a fender bender on the interstate? Right, never. Why not? Too common. No sex appeal, no shock or catch line. My source was federal statistics. There are something like nineteen to twenty million hunters every year. Yes, some of the get hurt. However, the ratio of accidents to participants is extremely low. Hence my saying "statisically speaking" hunting is one of the safest blah blah blah.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #64 December 2, 2004 QuoteAt this point how do we know that is fact? Have you bothered to read any of the news stories about the incident? Quote"The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked 40 yards, fiddled with his rifle. He took the scope off his rifle, he turned and he opened fire on the group," Sheriff James Meier said. One of the men who was shot called for help on his radio. The gunman fired again, hitting the people who had just arrived on ATVs. The gunman was "chasing after them and killing them," Deputy Tim Zeigle said. It is unclear if anyone returned fire. Those in the hunting party had only one gun among them. QuoteThe shootings occurred after Vang was found in a deer stand on property owned by Terry Willers and Robert Crotteau, and Willers told Vang to leave. Vang told investigators in court documents that he shot several hunters and in some instances chased them. QuoteBoth accounts agreed on what happened next, with Vang shooting the others as more people from the deer camp arrived at the scene, summoned by Hesebeck using a walkie-talkie to call for help. Vang said he continued firing as the group scattered, and at one point chased one of the hunters and shot him in the back, only to find the man had no gun, the document states. Authorities have said there was only one gun among the victims. According to investigators, it's believed Vang fired at least 20 shots. and so on, and so on, and so on You might also take note that his lawyer didn't waste any time at all in saying he intended to use mental defect or deficiency.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #65 December 2, 2004 QuoteBodies on slabs with entry and exit wounds are pretty strong testament to this kind of thing. And an investigation that finds they were hit in the back, and that they were not armed at the time, that'll be the final nail in the coffin for this psycho. Ahh so the forensic report hasn't been released yet, but you already know what is in it. funny how you can quickly judge guilt when it suits you, yet preach innocent until proven guilty when that suits your side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #66 December 2, 2004 So are you going to bother reading any news articles? There are plenty which say that by his own admission he chased and shot people in the back. I know, I know, you've made up your mind, don't confuse you with the facts.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #67 December 2, 2004 QuoteSo are you going to bother reading any news articles? There are plenty which say that by his own admission he chased and shot people in the back. I know, I know, you've made up your mind, don't confuse you with the facts. I thought the media were all liberal assholes and not to be believed? I think I'll just wait for forensic reports to come out and wait for a trial to decide whether or not he is guilty. But, interesting to know that you would consider a supposed admission reported in a news article a fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #68 December 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo are you going to bother reading any news articles? There are plenty which say that by his own admission he chased and shot people in the back. I know, I know, you've made up your mind, don't confuse you with the facts. I thought the media were all liberal assholes and not to be believed? I think I'll just wait for forensic reports to come out and wait for a trial to decide whether or not he is guilty. But, interesting to know that you would consider a supposed admission reported in a news article a fact. By your ridiculous standards, I could argue that the shootings never even happened, and that the guy is just being harassed for his background. Afterall, it's only a few articles reporting that cops, victims, and the shooter all say it happened. edit: spellingwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #69 December 2, 2004 QuoteAfterall, it's only a few articles reporting that cops, victims, and the shooter all say it happened. Cool, so which of those reporters had access to the the shooter to get this admission? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #70 December 2, 2004 http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=wisconsin+hunters&btnG=Search+News Do your own homework.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #71 December 2, 2004 Quotehttp://news.google.com/...amp;btnG=Search+News Do your own homework. Like I thought, none of the reporters had access to the shooter. Hence, the reported admission is hearsay. As said earlier, interesting to know you would consider that a fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #72 December 2, 2004 You realize NO ONE disputes that he shot them in the back but you, right? His lawyer has talked to the media - no dispute. The cops have talked to the media - no dispute. The surviving victims talked ot the media - no dispute. Does it feel lonely to be the ONLY PERSON pressing the issue? edit: spellingwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #73 December 2, 2004 QuoteDoes it feel lonely to be the ONLY PERSON pressing the issue? Nope, never felt the need for group approval. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #74 December 2, 2004 QuoteIn a life or death situation prudence dictates that one neutralize any perceived threats. A real-time analysis could have led to a conclusion that the deceased were attempting to take cover and return fire, thereby rationalizing his response. So any time a police officer is fired upon, they have the right to slaughter everyone in sight? Hey, they could just call in air support and drop napalm! Actually, prudence dictates that you only shoot *real and imminent* threats, not *possible* threats. Everyone is a "possible" threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #75 December 2, 2004 Quote>statisically, hunting is one of the safest sports you can particiapte in I think your source is a little off. Here are the news stories for fatal accidents for just the last 3 weeks... Note that we are currently in deer-hunting season in states around the country, which creates much of the hunting activity for the entire year. What you see right now is a spike in the statistics. How Dangerous is Hunting?From data compiled by the National Safety Council, based on injuries requiring hospital emergency room treatment: Injuries per 100,000 1 of Every Recreation Participants Injuries Participants n Participants ----------- ------------ -------- ------------ -------------- Ice Hockey 1,600,000 59,523 3,720 27 Football 14,700,000 319,157 2,171 46 Basketball 28,200,000 752,798 2,669 37 Baseball 15,400,000 321,806 2,090 48 Soccer 11,200,000 101,946 910 109 Bikeing 56,800,000 514,738 905 110 Skateboards 7,500,000 65,819 869 114 Roller Skating 26,500,000 136,353 514 194 Horseback 10,100,000 46,928 465 215 Ice Skating 7,000,000 23,443 335 299 Fishing 46,500,000 65,677 141 708 Tennis 18,800,000 22,507 120 835 Golf 23,200,000 24,224 104 958 Swimming 70,500,000 65,757 93 1,072 Ping Pong 9,500,000 1,455 15 12,542 Hunting 18,000,000 1,271 7 14,162 Published in "North American Hunter", November 1994. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
