Six Hunters Murdered on Private Land in Wisconsin

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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The evidence of the crime scene will tell the tale..

Rhino

I am withholding judgment on this one until the forensics people have had their crack at it.

No doubt, in a case like this, a HUGE amount of information is going to be divulged by the evidence at the scene. Wound channels, vectors, etc. There is no way, I think, that a bullshit story will end up holding up in the face of the torrent of evidence that is probably mounting as we speak.

We'll soon know if this guy was a psychopath or not, and whether the hunters who responded to him were of a mind to murder him. (It seems less likely to me that 8 other people including a school-aged girl would be all acting in concert to kill this guy just for being an Asian-born interloper...)

One big question I have is, "Why the hell was he up in a tree stand on private property if he were truly there to hunt deer?" They say he had gotten lost. So rather than find his party (was there a party he was there with?), he set up to hunt deer in someone else's tree stand?? If he truly thought he was on public hunting land, did he think that they just left tree stands up for anyone to use? If he had legitimate plans there, his first clue that he was where he shouldn't be was the fact that he found a tree stand in what he claims he believed was public land. And I want to know, did he have other hunting gear with him, or just his rifle?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[billvon 3,059]

>I really don't see the responsibility that could fall on the heads of the victims?

If one of the victims took an action that the lone hunter saw as threatening, isn't the lone hunter justified in defending his life with lethal force?

I mean, put yourself in his place. You wander into a forest where you don't belong for whatever reason. Someone yells at you and you are confronted by several people, most of whom appear to be armed. You are threatened. A gun is aimed at you, but you have the opportunity to fire first. What do you do? Do you take the 'sheep' way out? (to coin a popular phrase here)

I agree with a later poster who said that we will likely never know what transpired in the woods with any certainty, but it would seem like it would take a lot of evidence to prove he acted with malice rather than in self defense.

[EBSB52 0]

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And here I thought they were there to murder non-human animals only....... hmmmm, rules must have changed and didn't send down the memo.

Being an animal lover and vegetarian, I don't see a real problem with this. The animals looked on at a bunch of idiots shooting each other.

Now I don't consider that a very mature thing to say, at all. People died, here. Show some respect.

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Also, per a newspaper report I read, after the first one was shot, he called in the rest of the other hunters for help........ seems like role reversal, as hunters buy various devices to call-in animals, yet they were the ones getting called-in here.

Now you're likening these humans to animals?
I think it speaks something of the people who were killed that they did NOT circle this guy like they were out to kill him (his claim is that they shot at him first); there was ONE gun found among the hunters who responded. I myself find this odd, if they were hunters summoned by a guy who said he'd been shot, but then maybe they thought he meant a hunting accident...

Of course, with stories like this, often the inaccurate first reports are seldom corrected in follow-up stories. It's not like the Palm Beach Post is going to dog this story to its conclusion. They'll report only those refreshers that can tittilate the audience, but they are certainly not wrapped up in a responsibility to make sure you can follow all the developments along the way. For certain, it is possible that after the first "one gun was found among the 8 hunters" report, more guns might possibly have been found.

Who knows.

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BTW, I'm pro-gun as anyone here - own several, just chose to shoot non-living targets and use them for personal protection.

I'm a non-hunter also, but that's just a personal thing and I don't have a problem with people hunting. And I don't disparage them the way you seem disposed to. I too shoot non-living targets and will shoot only those humans who threaten my life.

-Jeffrey

Now I don't consider that a very mature thing to say, at all. People died, here. Show some respect.

Hey, I don't like people that kill for sport; I do, however, like people that jump out of acft for sport

Now you're likening these humans to animals?

No, the animals that are usually hunted don't make hobby of mounting heads on walls and call it sport. So I would never demoralize an animal in that way.

I think it speaks something of the people who were killed that they did NOT circle this guy like they were out to kill him (his claim is that they shot at him first); there was ONE gun found among the hunters who responded. I myself find this odd, if they were hunters summoned by a guy who said he'd been shot, but then maybe they thought he meant a hunting accident...

Of course, with stories like this, often the inaccurate first reports are seldom corrected in follow-up stories. It's not like the Palm Beach Post is going to dog this story to its conclusion. They'll report only those refreshers that can tittilate the audience, but they are certainly not wrapped up in a responsibility to make sure you can follow all the developments along the way. For certain, it is possible that after the first "one gun was found among the 8 hunters" report, more guns might possibly have been found.

Hmmm, I hadn't heard that, but it doesn't change my opinion. I read that after the first guy was shot, he phoned/summoned other hunters that came in to a surprise ambush attack. Either way, but they were there to kill innocent animals and they got it instead - see an irony? I don't advocate the killing of people animals or wild animals, but when one continually kills the other it's kind of hard to feel sorry. Ever watch discovery or the like and see prey get away, or better yet the hunter get hunted? Don't you pull for the Gazelle, or do you pull for the lion/tiger? Let nature do it's own thing, as we as humans have divorced ourselves from it over 100 years ago. We encroach on their land and are then offended when coyotes wander onto our streets....

.....the humanity (not in a positive light)

[mnealtx 0]

[reply
Now I don't consider that a very mature thing to say, at all. People died, here. Show some respect.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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[reply
Now I don't consider that a very mature thing to say, at all. People died, here. Show some respect.

PETA quote (not exactly): "A dog is a pig is a rat is a boy" You think those people have any respect for HUMAN life?

[EBSB52 0]

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[reply
Now I don't consider that a very mature thing to say, at all. People died, here. Show some respect.

PETA quote (not exactly): "A dog is a pig is a rat is a boy" You think those people have any respect for HUMAN life?

No, I think PETA are assholes, and OH how I would love to see a PETA member hit a deer on a highway and watch their reaction when EMS got there and left them to bleed out on the pavement while they tended to the wounded deer!

We'd see the depth of their bullshit "people are no better than animals" convictions then.

Gimme a fucking break.

-Jeffrey

[EBSB52 0]

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Sad story. And to think this all started over deer hunting.

Why can't people just run down to Safeway or Fred Meyers and get some nutrious, delicious beef, pork, lamb or fish?

Better yet, become a vegan.

All this horrible gun violence wouldn't have happened if we could "all just get along with our friends in the animal kingdom" but then that opens up a debate about the "vegetable community"

But seriously, it seems that the shooter doubled back and shot some of his victims in the back. I bet that somewhere in his trial his Hmong, bad childhood, white soldiers raped his country, blah blah blah will be raised in his defense.

Sad.

"...but then that opens up a debate about the "vegetable community."

I hate vegetables

[PhreeZone 20]

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One big question I have is, "Why the hell was he up in a tree stand on private property if he were truly there to hunt deer?" They say he had gotten lost. So rather than find his party (was there a party he was there with?), he set up to hunt deer in someone else's tree stand?? If he truly thought he was on public hunting land, did he think that they just left tree stands up for anyone to use? If he had legitimate plans there, his first clue that he was where he shouldn't be was the fact that he found a tree stand in what he claims he believed was public land. And I want to know, did he have other hunting gear with him, or just his rifle?

Back when I used to deer hunt I would frequently go alone. I could travel on my time and leave when ever I wanted. I'd only carry my gun, 5 extra shells and a cell phone in the off position. Also in some public hunting areas here in Ohio it is perfectly legal to put up a tree stand or prep an area for the hunting season as long as the land manager approves of your actions. It never fails that on the first day of shotgun season that a fight breaks out somewhere over someone coming along and using someone elses treestand or crossing onto private land and hunting with out permission. Stories grow when a large buck is harvested on private land and they realize it then try and drag it back to public land so they can clean it there.

Shotgun season starts here Monday. Typically there is at least 2 accidental shootings in the week of gun season here. Lets see how many fights get reported.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[antifnsocial 0]

I agree with you, wandering in the woods can get confusing for someone not familar with the land and area especially. Disputes get VERY heated here in PA as well and public land borders private lands everywhere because of the state forest. Things happen, people get accidentally shot all the time. Also, people get deer fever and try to shoot just about anything. I can't count the times bullets have wizzed by me on family land when I knew it just supposed to be me and my father out there and he wasn't the one shooting at me, that's for sure.

[I was taught to hunt a deer, to track it and that the skill of the hunt had more to do with that then sitting atop something and picking it off from an unfair advantage, others aren't apt to have been taught that there is a difference. Just because someone has a gun and a license to hunt doesn't mean they are truly qualified to be out there.]

Please feel free to reply to my posts and pm's, but only if you're smart enough to understand what they really mean.

[Kennedy 0]

http://theunionleader.com/weather_show.html?article=46707

statisically, hunting is one of the safest sports you can particiapte in.

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For instance, the National Safety Council put the 2001 football accident rate at 2,369 per 100,000, compared with six per 100,000 for hunters nationally. Swimming had a rate of 319, golf 173, soccer 1,262, and basketball 2,326. Even climbing and hiking have accident rates far out-stripping hunting.

ps - the most dangerous thing a person can do while hunting is NOT wear blaze orange. The numbers vary, but the vast majority of hunting accidents involve hunters not wearing blaze orange as victims. The rest are hunters that did wear blaze as victims.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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If one of the victims took an action that the lone hunter saw as threatening, isn't the lone hunter justified in defending his life with lethal force?

The standard in most states is where a reasoanble person would feel threatened with death/GBH.

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You wander into a forest where you don't belong for whatever reason.

I do my best to stay away from palces I don't belong.

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Someone yells at you and you are confronted by several people, most of whom appear to be armed.

I've been yelled at by plenty of people, justified and not. Just because they are armed does not make them "seething cauldrons of homicidal rage." (to use a gun-banners phrase)

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You are threatened. A gun is aimed at you, but you have the opportunity to fire first.

See, there's the problem. We don't know that that's what happened in the woods of Wisconsin.

If I were threatened with an ass-whoopin if I didn't get out of their stand, I'd get down. If I was threatened with death for being there and someone pointed a gun at me, that's another story.

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What do you do? Do you take the 'sheep' way out? (to coin a popular phrase here)

Do you really want me to explain my methods for avoiding, de-escalating, controling, and finally surviving a potentially violent encounter again?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[antifnsocial 0]

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the most dangerous thing a person can do while hunting is NOT wear blaze orange. The numbers vary, but the vast majority of hunting accidents involve hunters not wearing blaze orange as victims. The rest are hunters that did wear blaze as victims.

lol- honey I am blaze orange, lol-but you're right, I always wear more than legally required of orange hunting clothing. However, I still have been closely shot towards and on private property while wearing orange overalls too.

PS. BTW- there is a series on WB called 'The Mountain' whose show theme tonight will center around someone being shot while hunting, how wonderfully sensitive for the network to keep it for this week!

Please feel free to reply to my posts and pm's, but only if you're smart enough to understand what they really mean.

[Jimbo 0]

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PS. BTW- there is a series on WB called 'The Mountain' whose show theme tonight will center around someone being shot while hunting, how wonderfully sensitive for the network to keep it for this week!

Good for them. It's sad that six people died; I don't think, however, in the grand scheme of things that it's important enough for a network to shuffle it's season. Do you? Should shows with drive-by shootings be shuffled around every time somebody dies in a drive-by? Should shows with fires be shuffled around everytime somebody loses something or someone to fire? Where does it end?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Viking 0]

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I still have been closely shot towards and on private property while wearing orange overalls too.

jesus what ever happened to confirming your target before sending a round down range? that was one of the most important things in the hunter safety course my mom and dad tought that i attended way to many times. lol

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[Erroll 80]

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Bet you a cold one the guy's defense will be that the other hunters were using racist slurs,...

According to CNN :

But Vang, a Laotian-born U.S. citizen, told investigators that he was subjected to ethnic slurs and was fired on first before he shot back...

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Bet you a cold one the guy's defense will be that the other hunters were using racist slurs,...

According to CNN :

But Vang, a Laotian-born U.S. citizen, told investigators that he was subjected to ethnic slurs and was fired on first before he shot back...

Gee, what a surprise, huh?

[Kennedy 0]

From your CNN article:

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Attorney Steven Kohn told reporters in Milwaukee that Vang's defense lawyers are looking at "potential mental health and mental responsibility defenses" in addition to a defense on the facts of the case.

So, the guy is nuts, or he's trying to get off by saying he's nuts.

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Sawyer County Sheriff James Meier said the shootings were prompted by a dispute over a tree stand on private property on the first weekend of Wisconsin's deer-hunting season.

Love the way they left out that he was the trespasser, and that he was sitting in a treestand that didn't belong to him. The only "dispute" happened because he was where he didn't belong, using items that didn't belong to him, after getting himself lost or not caring that he crossed property lines.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Love the way they left out that he was the trespasser, and that he was sitting in a treestand that didn't belong to him. The only "dispute" happened because he was where he didn't belong, using items that didn't belong to him, after getting himself lost or not caring that he crossed property lines.

Love how you pick and chose the "facts" you chose to believe from those available in the media. anything to fit your story huh?

Pretty sad that people get killed and all most of you are concerned about is whether or not you get to keep your guns.

Now Kennedy.....what if he was shot upon first? What if this guy thought he was on public land and this group of white guys came running at him yelling profanities and firing the first shot? Wouldn't he be a hero in your books?

[Kennedy 0]

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Love how you pick and chose the "facts" you chose to believe from those available in the media. anything to fit your story huh?

What's your problem with my summary? Specifically.

If you read all the articles you can find, it is very clear that he was trespassing on private land. Knowingly or not, it's still trespassing. Do you dispute this?

If you read all the articles you can find, it is very clear that the treestand the shooter was using belonged to the victims. He was using an item that belonged to someone else, on land that belonged to someone else. Do you dispute this?

If not, how am I "picking and choosing" facts?

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Pretty sad that people get killed and all most of you are concerned about is whether or not you get to keep your guns.

Where did I once in this thread say anything about gun rights?

Besides, what does this have to do with the larger gun rights battle? This wasn't an assault weapon (the articles that say it was are wrong). It wasn't a handgun. It hasn't crossed into manufacturer lawsuits. So how does this affect in anyway whether or not I "get to keep my guns?"

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what if he was shot upon first?

Look back at billvon's hypothetical for shooting first and still being the defesive party. The shooter could have shot first and started it. He could've shot first out of self defense. The victims could've shot first and started it. The victims could've shot first out of self defense. If you can't accept that any of those four are possible at this point, then you have made up your mind, and I won't try to confuse you with the facts.

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What if this guy thought he was on public land and this group of white guys came running at him yelling profanities and firing the first shot? Wouldn't he be a hero in your books?

If it went down like in your little theory, the he would've been justified in shooting back. If someone shoots at your for no apparent reason, firing back and hitting your target is a good shoot.

However, evn if it went down that way, he was not justified in chasing the other victims and shooting them in the back as they fled. That disqualifies him from "hero" status.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Now Kennedy.....what if he was shot upon first? What if this guy thought he was on public land and this group of white guys came running at him yelling profanities and firing the first shot? Wouldn't he be a hero in your books?

I've read stories where drunk people broke into houses that were not theirs and got themselves shot by the homeowners who justifiably feared for their lives, and then we find out that the drunk moron just mistakenly thought he was at his own house.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with the reasons shots were fired, but it has much to do with who initiated the sequence of events that led to a problem arising. If this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened -- unless, of course, he DID plan to shoot a bunch of hunters.

Start watching for the PETA ties to this piece of shit. Maybe they're recruiting people even more psychotic, arming them, and send them afield to kill those who kill deer...

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I've read stories where drunk people broke into houses that were not theirs and got themselves shot by the homeowners who justifiably feared for their lives, and then we find out that the drunk moron just mistakenly thought he was at his own house.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with the reasons shots were fired, but it has much to do with who initiated the sequence of events that led to a problem arising. If this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened -- unless, of course, he DID plan to shoot a bunch of hunters.

Start watching for the PETA ties to this piece of shit. Maybe they're recruiting people even more psychotic, arming them, and send them afield to kill those who kill deer...

so, do you know if there were signs posted, indicating that he was trespassing. Do you know if there were signs posted indicating he was about to enter onto private land? Would it be possible that he walked from public land onto private land without knowing?

[Trent 0]

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so, do you know if there were signs posted, indicating that he was trespassing. Do you know if there were signs posted indicating he was about to enter onto private land? Would it be possible that he walked from public land onto private land without knowing?

Just to respond to this SPECIFIC question. Yes, it is possible. In Texas, "No Tresspassing" signs must be posted OR fenceposts along a property line must be marked by purple paint, which also means "No Tresspassing". If the land wasn't marked, or he didn't know the less obvious markings... he could've easily not known he was tresspassing.

Oh, hello again!

[peregrinerose 0]

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Just to respond to this SPECIFIC question. Yes, it is possible. In Texas, "No Tresspassing" signs must be posted OR fenceposts along a property line must be marked by purple paint, which also means "No Tresspassing". If the land wasn't marked, or he didn't know the less obvious markings... he could've easily not known he was tresspassing.

Even if he was unaware of tresspassing on the land, why would he comandeer someone else's tree stand without permission from the owner? Woudn't that be a form of trespassing all by itself?

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Trent 0]

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Even if he was unaware of tresspassing on the land, why would he comandeer someone else's tree stand without permission from the owner? Woudn't that be a form of trespassing all by itself?

Well that would indicate that he knowingly occupied some space that he knew wasn't HIS, but he could've still thought he was on public land. Either way, I'm not trying to justify any one side with my post, just answering the question someone asked.

Oh, hello again!

[EBSB52 0]

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Now Kennedy.....what if he was shot upon first? What if this guy thought he was on public land and this group of white guys came running at him yelling profanities and firing the first shot? Wouldn't he be a hero in your books?

I've read stories where drunk people broke into houses that were not theirs and got themselves shot by the homeowners who justifiably feared for their lives, and then we find out that the drunk moron just mistakenly thought he was at his own house.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with the reasons shots were fired, but it has much to do with who initiated the sequence of events that led to a problem arising. If this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened -- unless, of course, he DID plan to shoot a bunch of hunters.

Start watching for the PETA ties to this piece of shit. Maybe they're recruiting people even more psychotic, arming them, and send them afield to kill those who kill deer...

-Jeffrey

Hey, (not so) peacefuljeffrey, get help!!!

". If this guy had not been such a fuckup and had not, either deliberately or mistakenly, put himself in someone else's tree stand on someone else's property, by being responsibile and competent, this probably would not have happened."

That reminds me of Mexican law (policy) that states if you are a foreigner in Mexico with your car and it is parked, a Mexican-National runs into it, it is your fault. The reason is is that if you were not in their country this wouldnot have happened - hence, your fault.

Isn't this the same kind of logic you're using here? I don't know what happened, nor do I really care so much, but you can't shoot people for occupying your area. Well, unless you're a cop, but that goes without saying.

You can't legally place bombs around your property, even though it is on your property.

Sorry, turn the calendar from the 19th century.