do you think evil really exists?

[josheezammit 0]

please explain?

Ahh, what a wonderful world.

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes...not as a supernatural force, but as a manifestation of lack of empathy.

[josheezammit 0]

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Yes...not as a supernatural force, but as a manifestation of lack of empathy.

ok why not as a supernatural force?

Ahh, what a wonderful world.

[PhillyKev 0]

Because I don't believe in supernatural forces....

[josheezammit 0]

thanks kev, not to be too bold and you can tell me to shut the f up, but why don't you believe in supernatural forces?

Ahh, what a wonderful world.

[jakee 1,499]

I suppose I see evil as a description, say someone might do something that is evil, if they did enough evil things I might consider them evil. I certainly wouldn't say that there is some big cloud of evil floating around though, thats just kinda dumb and would absolve evil people of responsibility for their evil actions.

Thats the most times I've ever typed evil. Spooky

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PhillyKev 0]

I've never seen any evidence other than indidual anecdotes to suggest that they are real. I have more faith in the power of the human mind to conjure up explanation for the unexplained than nature to allow such abnormalities to exist.

[josheezammit 0]

wow thanks Kev

Ahh, what a wonderful world.

[Zenister 0]

of course not... the only evil that really exists is that which man creates...

but boogiemen are useful to scare children into behaving if you believe that is a valuable teaching method...

if you'd like to delve into the religious aspects ascribed to by any particular religion we can always to that too... its a very enlightening subject to examine how individual cultures 'pass the blame' onto another entity...

of course if your referring to the christian mythos it is important to realize that their version of evil is part and parcel of their god... an all encompassing, all powerful, all knowing entity would be aware by default of the actions its creations will/would/did undertake... they were designed to do so and cannot act in any manner otherwise... Satan fell because God pushed him...therefore God is the prime source of Evil as well.... a causality the christians like to gloss over and pretend there are really two opposing sides… the world is much easier to accept when you can divide it into “us and them”

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[josheezammit 0]

thanks for your opinion zenister

Ahh, what a wonderful world.

[Zenister 0]

for an interesting literary examination of the issues (and a well written story as well... it is all about the story in the end) i'd recommend Neil Gaiman's Murder Mysteries

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

No, not as any kind of sentient, semi-sentient, or palpable force. Evil is not a brooding, maleficent "entity" -- it is simply that set of things that we define as undesirable or bad in the extreme.

And there is no one official definition for what is evil. We would consider infanticide "evil," but the Spartans used to leave weak children on a hillside to die. We view human sacrifice as evil, but some cultures did it and thought of it as wholesome, and beneficial to their people.

I certainly do not believe in a force of evil. Evil is simply the term given to stuff after the fact when we have a strong aversion to it. If a huge comet came along and smacked the earth and eradicated not just humanity but all life on the planet, would that be evil? I mean, why wouldn't it qualify, if anything would? Isn't the nasty, pointless killing of all earthly life, like, huge orders of magnitude worse than the simple rape, torture, or murder of a single innocent person -- which we have no reservations about calling "evil"?

But it would just be a mindless comet with no agenda. How could that be evil?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[jakee 1,499]

You could also read Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. Not really relevant but I just think its a great book, Discworldesque humour but a shade or two darker, or possibly Neil Gaimanesque but a shade or two lighter. Whatever floats your boat really.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Zenister 0]

MUCH lighter actually... Good Omens is a great read, but its focus is more comedy and entertainment than literary depth... Giaman has matured quite alot as an author since... and Murder Mysteries isnt very light hearted at all in comparison..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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thanks kev, not to be too bold and you can tell me to shut the f up, but why don't you believe in supernatural forces?

I know I'm not Kev, but since I agree and hold the same view, I'll contribute my explanation for variety's sake.

I don't believe in supernatural forces because they most certainly have not been proved to exist. If they had, our capacity to spread information would have surely brought such proof before me; and if logical proof of something is presented to me, I have no problem accepting its truth. But so far, zip.

But if your argument for believing in them is simply, "Well, they could exist," I think that standard for believing is too low. I am not someone who believes radical things and defends that belief as long as they have not yet been DISproved. I withhold believe UNTIL something IS proved, generally. Forming and holding beliefs strictly on the basis of "why not?" is just sloppily unscientific.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[jakee 1,499]

I've only read part of one other Gaiman book, American Gods, but what I did read I really liked, I've been meaning to get it (and maybe a few others) for a while now, I like most stuff that collides old myths with the new world really. I take it his other books have a sort of supernatural/moral kind of theme?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Zenister 0]

very much so... he is a huge fan of myth and its influence on human development...

i enjoyed American Gods, but it was one of his first ventures into the novel format (apart from some very early collaborative work) the majority of his work is short stories or novellas and imo he appears much more comfortable in the shorter formats..although he does carry themes (and characters on occasion) from one story to the next...

he's probably most well know for the ground breaking comic book series "The Sandman" in the early 90s. Myth is its fundamental theme and it did a whole lot to get comics and graphic novels accepted as literature...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jakee 1,499]

Wicked
I'm going to have to take a closer look at his stuff. I'm doing an ancient history degree at the moment, hope to do a module of greek religion and philosophy next year so this sort of thing is right up my street. Actually I might just root out some books of Norse skalds and saga's when I'm home for the holidays.
With the Sandman comic, again I've heard of it but not seen any of it. Looks damned interesting though. Heh, I think my christmas list just got longer again

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Falko 0]

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please explain?

Voted No.

"Evil" is just an expression trying to categorize events and thoughts that humans perceive to be negative. Since everything that happens in this world is due to basic forces of nature (i.e. physics) it cannot be categorized in terms of morality like "good", "evil" etc.
That's what man does anyway, because he's desperately trying to categorize his surroundings in an effort to create a set of rules which supposedly make it easier to survive.

"Evil" is just a human expression, not an entity. It's all in the eye of the beholder anyway... what I may consider evil can be a good thing for another person.

On second thought, this is only the answer to my interpretation of your original question, because it's not really clear to me what you mean by "really exist"?
Evil existing as... what?

...... confused.

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[josheezammit 0]

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But if your argument for believing in them is simply, "Well, they could exist," I think that standard for believing is too low. I am not someone who believes radical things and defends that belief as long as they have not yet been DISproved. I withhold believe UNTIL something IS proved, generally.

-Jeffrey

ya dude I am the polar opposite from you, but this part I have to disagree with

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Forming and holding beliefs strictly on the basis of "why not?" is just sloppily unscientific.

"scientific" beliefs are based on a "why not" mentality, that is why we call them "theories" they can be proven wrong too

Ahh, what a wonderful world.

[IanHarrop 42]

In short, I voted no because my beliefs are in line with Jeffery's.

There are evil people in the world who do evil things but evil as a force/entity does not exist.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[jakee 1,499]

I'm curious about what you think.

I'm guessing you're leaning towards supernatural force, in which case how do you envisage the way it works? Does it envelope people and cause them to be evil, are only certain people succeptible. Or would it be more of a new testament devil, tempting and teasing until those who are weak let it in. Also how would you see some supernatural evil affecting the issue of personal responsibility? Or would it be more some kind of malicious entity with the power to affect things like droughts and crop failures?

Unless of course you didn't really have an opinion and were just loking for other peoples views, in which case just ignore that whole last paragraph.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,499]

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In short, I voted no because my beliefs are in line with Jeffery's.

Surprised as I am, I also agree with everything that Peacefuljeffery has said on this thread. 'Twas a good post.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Muenkel 0]

Yes, I do believe evil exists and I think selfishness is at the root of it. I think most people believe in the Golden Rule as an ideal to live by. When someone deviates from that rule, the person themself may not necesarily be evil, but their action was.

A perfect example here is the rule of no personal attacks, which I believe most dz.commers agree with. Why? Because I believe personal attacks only cause harm to another, which essentially is evil.

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Chris

[josheezammit 0]

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I'm curious about what you think.

thanks,

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I'm guessing you're leaning towards supernatural force, in which case how do you envisage the way it works? Does it envelope people and cause them to be evil, are only certain people succeptible. Or would it be more of a new testament devil, tempting and teasing until those who are weak let it in. Also how would you see some supernatural evil affecting the issue of personal responsibility? Or would it be more some kind of malicious entity with the power to affect things like droughts and crop failures?

I am a christian and i do lean towards the supernatural side of things, I believe though that there are all different types of evil. I believe that some evil exists cause we create it. (like murders, and theives and the such) Man made big dog. Some evil exists cause thats how we explain some big picture things that happen, like the crops dying, but in the end I believe in the supreme evil,

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Or would it be more of a new testament devil, tempting and teasing until those who are weak let it in.

New and old testament, evil that lies and influences you to do the wrong thing. I am not saying this from a closed minded stand point, I have explored my options, and I have chosen christianity of my own free will, and i love it. fell free to write me back with any more questions you have!

Ahh, what a wonderful world.