JohnRich 4
QuoteAnd yes, I have been falsely prosecuted soley because I wore colors on my leather and had affiliations to motorcycle organizations.
You didn't answer my questions about how that arrest was influenced by the prison lobby.
I've been hassled for no good reason too. I chalked it up to an overzealous Barney Fife cop, not to a conspiracy from a big private organization to increase arrests.
I was accused of being a drug runner, because I was wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt, traveling on I-10 between Texas and Florida - a "major drug corridor", and refused to forfeit my 4th Amendment rights and voluntarily allow a search of my vehicle. The Dead are a band which, of course, is known for using drugs. The reason I was really wearing the shirt is because it had parachuting teddy bears on it, and it was a xmas gift from my sister.
I try not to wear that shirt any more when driving through Alabama...
http://www.uncommonthought.com/prison_privatization.html
The link above is a well written assessment on the prison lobby.
I went to Descanso minimum security prison in 1984 on a trumped up concealed weapon charge. The weapon in question was a buck110v locking blade. The knife was in its case, strapped on my belt. It was covered by my leather jacket, thus "concealed". When we were pulled over we had done nothing wrong. We were searched for no reason. I went to jail and my bike to impoundment. I got six months worth of weekend lockup, 12pm friday to 12pm monday. We assembled metal boxes and also cleaned highways. I am certian that the prison lobby had everything to do with my time assembling metal boxes at Descanso.
I have a good number of friends who are scattered throughout the prison system. Some really do belong there, I have no doubt. Yet some are there soley because of affiliation with what the government considers to be a crimminal organization. Affiliation with "outlaw motorcycle gangs" fall under RICO. RICO was strongly pushed by the prison lobby. If you are a patch holder then you must be a crimminal. The law blankets even those loosely affiliated.
I am sorry about your run in with the law. I myself would still wear the shirt in Alabama or anywhere else for that matter. Sounds like a clear cut case of profiling. When I rode, I rode with several clubs over the years, I never backed down for what was on my back.
DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF
CLOTHING OR CLUB MEMBERSHIP IS ILLEGAL
-----------------------------------------------------------
Any person whose exercise or enjoyment of rights secured by the Constitution or laws of the United States has been interfered with, or attempted to be interfered with may institute and prosecute a civil action for injunctive and other appropriate equitable relief, including the award of compensatory monetary damages. The Supreme Court ruled in the case of Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971) that individuals have the constitutional right under the First Amendment to wear clothing which displays writing or design. In addition, the right of an individual to freedom of association has long been recognized and protected by the United States Supreme Court. Thus, a person's right to wear the clothing of his choice, as well as his right to belong to any club or organization of his choice is constitutionally protected, and persons or establishments who discriminate on the basis of clothing or club membership are subject to lawsuit.
I have never backed down and will never back up on my right to express myself no matter the cost. Anytime I was told that I could not enter an establishment because of colors on a jacket, I just showed them the card I carry that states the above. THEY BACK DOWN. Not me.
The link above is a well written assessment on the prison lobby.
I went to Descanso minimum security prison in 1984 on a trumped up concealed weapon charge. The weapon in question was a buck110v locking blade. The knife was in its case, strapped on my belt. It was covered by my leather jacket, thus "concealed". When we were pulled over we had done nothing wrong. We were searched for no reason. I went to jail and my bike to impoundment. I got six months worth of weekend lockup, 12pm friday to 12pm monday. We assembled metal boxes and also cleaned highways. I am certian that the prison lobby had everything to do with my time assembling metal boxes at Descanso.
I have a good number of friends who are scattered throughout the prison system. Some really do belong there, I have no doubt. Yet some are there soley because of affiliation with what the government considers to be a crimminal organization. Affiliation with "outlaw motorcycle gangs" fall under RICO. RICO was strongly pushed by the prison lobby. If you are a patch holder then you must be a crimminal. The law blankets even those loosely affiliated.
I am sorry about your run in with the law. I myself would still wear the shirt in Alabama or anywhere else for that matter. Sounds like a clear cut case of profiling. When I rode, I rode with several clubs over the years, I never backed down for what was on my back.
DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF
CLOTHING OR CLUB MEMBERSHIP IS ILLEGAL
-----------------------------------------------------------
Any person whose exercise or enjoyment of rights secured by the Constitution or laws of the United States has been interfered with, or attempted to be interfered with may institute and prosecute a civil action for injunctive and other appropriate equitable relief, including the award of compensatory monetary damages. The Supreme Court ruled in the case of Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971) that individuals have the constitutional right under the First Amendment to wear clothing which displays writing or design. In addition, the right of an individual to freedom of association has long been recognized and protected by the United States Supreme Court. Thus, a person's right to wear the clothing of his choice, as well as his right to belong to any club or organization of his choice is constitutionally protected, and persons or establishments who discriminate on the basis of clothing or club membership are subject to lawsuit.
I have never backed down and will never back up on my right to express myself no matter the cost. Anytime I was told that I could not enter an establishment because of colors on a jacket, I just showed them the card I carry that states the above. THEY BACK DOWN. Not me.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
Kennedy 0
Actually I believe there is a much more recent SCUS case that ruled on the same issue.
A cop insisted on searching a vehicle for firearms because there was an NRA sticker on the rear windshield. He did so in violation of a number of laws and of the driver's wishes.
His claim was that he was entitled to do so for his own safety based on the sticker. The Supreme Court told him he was wrong.
If anyone PMs me or e-mails me, I will find the case for you later. It's in a course book upstairs somewhere/
A cop insisted on searching a vehicle for firearms because there was an NRA sticker on the rear windshield. He did so in violation of a number of laws and of the driver's wishes.
His claim was that he was entitled to do so for his own safety based on the sticker. The Supreme Court told him he was wrong.
If anyone PMs me or e-mails me, I will find the case for you later. It's in a course book upstairs somewhere/
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
that is truely ironic considering the NRA is one of the bigger lobbies for law enforcement
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
Kennedy 0
It's not really all that ironic. The NRA supports law enforcement and crime control, but they hate over zealous government (and its agents) just as much as the ACLU or any other libertarian.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
kallend 2,108
QuoteIt's not really all that ironic. The NRA supports law enforcement and crime control, but they hate over zealous government (and its agents) just as much as the ACLU or any other libertarian.
Isn't it curious that state murder rates correlate quite well with NRA membership rates.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Kennedy 0
QuoteIsn't it curious that state murder rates correlate quite well with NRA membership rates.
Isn't it curious that area birth rates correlate quite well with pidgeons per square mile?
To be a bit more serious, why don't you site some sources for us?
In states where "NRA laws" have been successfully codified (concealed carry, for one) crime rates tend to be lower and to drop quicker. Are you proposing that states with higher NRA membership have less successful NRA lobbying?
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
QuoteIsn't it curious that area birth rates correlate quite well with pidgeons per square mile?
ROFLMAO. Perhaps the funniest thing I have read on here uet. And it does a great job at exposing how certain posters love to spew out meaningless statistics. Good job, bro.
Forty-two
kallend 2,108
QuoteQuoteIsn't it curious that state murder rates correlate quite well with NRA membership rates.
Isn't it curious that area birth rates correlate quite well with pidgeons per square mile?
To be a bit more serious, why don't you site some sources for us?
In states where "NRA laws" have been successfully codified (concealed carry, for one) crime rates tend to be lower and to drop quicker. Are you proposing that states with higher NRA membership have less successful NRA lobbying?
Apparently it's quite true (unlike your pigeon analogy).
The final odd result was that the size of the state's NRA membership seems to increase the murder rate. This cannot be an effect of the murder rate rather than a cause, because the researchers took time lags into account in their models. NRA membership may, however, be a good indicator of the violence potential in a state, as states that have been previously more inclined to violence during earlier crime cycles retain high membership rates. States that have no real history of murder, however, may have fewer NRA members, as there is less need to join for self-protective purposes.
American Outlook, Iain Murray, 2001
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Kennedy 0
QuoteSome Puzzles
Most of the results they obtained were as expected. The murder rate increased as assault and robbery increased, and it also varied with the number of males in a county and with the proportion of African-Americans. It decreased according to the size of the non-African-American minority population. It also decreased with higher population density, which may at first sight seem strange, but it should be borne in mind that rural areas, with low population density, often have higher murder rates than the peaceful suburbs.
Three results do, however, appear rather odd. The first is that the murder rate appears to increase with per capita income. The researchers explain this by suggesting that drug consumption, which is heavily linked to murder, may increase along with income. This is, however, speculation. The researchers did not include a true measure of drug consumption or trafficking in their equation, which is probably the biggest single mark against it. If, however, the researchers' assumption is true, it appears that the metropolitan elite's habit of purchasing drugs as a recreational luxury is contributing to the murder rate. This is not an argument that is often made in considering how the war against drugs should be fought, but it does provide food for thought.
Another seemingly odd result is that a higher percentage of the population being teenage seems to lower the murder rate. This is again surprising, as the teen murder rate is the one that showed the biggest increase during the 1990s. It may be, however, that higher teenage populations involve proportionally more teenage girls, who are much less likely to murder than boys. Furthermore, the prime age for murder remains the immediate post-teen years, and it may be the size of that category that is most important. Unfortunately, the demographic category the researchers used was of ages twenty through twenty-nine, which includes large numbers who are putting their risky pasts behind them.
The final odd result was that the size of the state's NRA membership seems to increase the murder rate. This cannot be an effect of the murder rate rather than a cause, because the researchers took time lags into account in their models. NRA membership may, however, be a good indicator of the violence potential in a state, as states that have been previously more inclined to violence during earlier crime cycles retain high membership rates. States that have no real history of murder, however, may have fewer NRA members, as there is less need to join for self-protective purposes.
Why not mention that it "correlates quite well" with the number of blacks in the area?
Why not mention that it "correlates quite well" with smaller population density?
Why not mention that it "correlates quite well" with higher income?
Correlations are more and more meaningless.
But let's look at that last paragraph again.
NRA membership may, however, be a good indicator of the violence potential in a state, as states that have been previously more inclined to violence during earlier crime cycles retain high membership rates.
So people who have seen violence tend to want to know their choices for self defense and then to protect their right to have those choices. Sounds logical to me.
States that have no real history of murder, however, may have fewer NRA members, as there is less need to join for self-protective purposes.
Would you look at that. Someone finally noted that guns have self protective capabilities as well. I'm impressed.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
kallend 2,108
Quote***
Why not mention that it "correlates quite well" with the number of blacks in the area?
Why not mention that it "correlates quite well" with smaller population density?
Why not mention that it "correlates quite well" with higher income?
.
Because those things have nothing to do with this thread, and guns do.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Kennedy 0
Just wanted to include the next paragraph of the work you cited as reliable...
...since I recall you being such a fan of John Lott's work and all.
QuoteDespite all these reasonable explanations for the few odd results, the latter create enough doubt to cause one to worry about the robustness, if not the direction, of the authors' overall conclusion about deterrence. As mentioned earlier, one of the strengths of John Lott's work on guns is that the continued attacks by opponents of his view have resulted in continuous reassessment that has confirmed and thereby strengthened his original conclusions. His original paper was reworked into a book, More Guns, Less Crime, in 1998, which was updated again with a second edition, in 2000.
...since I recall you being such a fan of John Lott's work and all.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Mediastudy.com as some in depth articles concerning this issue as does links at gov.com
And yes, I have been falsely prosecuted soley because I wore colors on my leather and had affiliations to motorcycle organizations. I have seen a good number of brothers go down under RICO which is strongly pushed by the prison lobby.
P.S. Great thread, hope I didn't piss anyone off. Paulipod did seem to envoke thought on this matter which prodded me to dwell deeper. What I found is alarming. Seems that most of us only know what is on the surface and never know how it got to be there. I encourage you to dig deep on all issues that affect you directly and nondirectly.
A WELL INFORMED CITIZEN BY FAR IS A GREATER THREAT THAN A WELL ARMED CITIZEN.
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
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