Pat Tillman

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I am surprised this hasn't been raised yet in SC.

Why would the military have lied about the circumstances surrounding his death?

[Tonto 1]

Cos they don't think that a hero's way to go is to be shot by his own side?

It's one of Murphy's laws of combat.

There is no such thing as friendly fire.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[freethefly 6]

Because they are trying to recruit bodies.
Shameful how the spindoctors spun it and made it out that he died a heroic death, fighting against the odds. Now it is known that he died at the hands of his own kind.
Besides all that, Pat Tillman is a true hero for all his dedication.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jdhill 0]

The fact that it was fraticide has been out for a long time... if they did not release the full details of the incident, how is it lying?

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[kallend 2,106]

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The fact that it was fraticide has been out for a long time... if they did not release the full details of the incident, how is it lying?

J

Something to do with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[EBSB52 0]

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The fact that it was fraticide has been out for a long time... if they did not release the full details of the incident, how is it lying?

J

Lie by omission.

If you screw around on your wife and don't tell her, have you lied? If not, then why do you feel so guilty? Call it betrayal, but you have a piece of info that she would want to know, and you not telling her is a lie by omission.

It contrasts a lie by commision.

[jdhill 0]

Are they on trial? Did they have an obligation to tell the family, yes. Did they have an obligation to tell the rest of, no.

From what has come out, it still appears to be a fog-of-war kinda thing... should it have happened, no... were mistakes made, absolutley. Was it to the point of being "criminal", it doesn't sound like it...

But like I said... this is an issue for the family and the military to deal with, not the general public.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[kallend 2,106]

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Are they on trial? Did they have an obligation to tell the family, yes. Did they have an obligation to tell the rest of, no.

From what has come out, it still appears to be a fog-of-war kinda thing... should it have happened, no... were mistakes made, absolutley. Was it to the point of being "criminal", it doesn't sound like it...

But like I said... this is an issue for the family and the military to deal with, not the general public.

J

It became an issue for the public when they sent a celebrity over there.

As was already mentioned, it's a lie by omission.

Lots of lying going on in the Bush administration.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Did they have an obligation to tell the family, yes.

His mom is asking why they lied to her and why it took them 5 weeks to come out with the truth. It didn't take them that long to get him a medal.

[beowulf 1]

They didn't send a "celebrity" over there. He went with out any fanfare or celebrity status. He went as just another soldier and that is the way he wanted to be thought of. If he wanted the celebrity status he would have done the tour thing and shook a bunch of hands and would have never seen combat. The Gov. has no obligation to the general public to fully disclose anything about the way he died. He died as a soldier and some times soldiers die in less then heroic circumstances.

[IanHarrop 42]

Read more of about the investigation..

"NEW YORK While it has been known for months that the death of former football star Pat Tillman in Afghanistan was due to friendly fire, in contrast to how it was first reported, a two-part Washington Post probe that appeared on Sunday and Monday went much further, laying blame on the Pentagon for what looks like a deliberate misinformation campaign.

David Zucchino in Monday's Los Angeles Times added more to the story, noting the changing Pentagon story, and adding that even the "amended Pentagon conclusion is contradicted by Afghans who were there the night of April 22."

Zucchino wrote that Tillman's parents "say the military has deceived them and stonewalled their attempts to find out how their son died." His mother said, "I'm disgusted by things that have happened with the Pentagon since my son's death."

His father added: "The investigation is a lie. It's insulting to Pat."

The article from which this was obtained:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000732072

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[freethefly 6]

***They didn't send a "celebrity" over there. He went with out any fanfare or celebrity status.

You must not have been watching the media output at the time he went.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

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It became an issue for the public when they sent a celebrity over there.

You evidently don't recall that Tillman VOLUNTEERED to be there.

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As was already mentioned, it's a lie by omission.

Sort of like Kerry not releasing ALL of his military records while demanding the opposite of Bush?

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Lots of lying going on in the Bush administration.

Looks like it's not just there, eh?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[PhreeZone 20]

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Sort of like Kerry not releasing ALL of his military records while demanding the opposite of Bush?

What does this have to do with Pat Tillman?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Darius11 12]

Pat Tillman is a hero.


The government lies unfortunately it is becoming very common.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

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The fact that it was fraticide has been out for a long time... if they did not release the full details of the incident, how is it lying?

Something to do with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Army officers are not allowed to reveal anything while the investigation is underway. It can take the official investigation a year or more to complete their research and findings. Then, the report is released. That's why you're just now hearing it. All military investigations work this way.

Sorry to disappoint you Kallend, but it's not an evil Bush conspiracy.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Army officers are not allowed to reveal anything while the investigation is underway. It can take the official investigation a year or more to complete their research and findings. Then, the report is released. That's why you're just now hearing it. All military investigations work this way.

Yet they were pretty quick to assess that he deserved a medal. They quick to report he was killed in battle by opposing forces.

[airborne31582 0]

You know, I am not disputing the fact that he is a hero, yet everyone forgets the other 1244 U.S. soldiers who have been killed in action.

Pat Tillman was front page news all over the world the day after he died, yet whenever any other U.S. soldier dies it is merely a sidebar. I think that is pretty sad.

Chris
I thought of the odds of me succeeding, versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid, and I went ahead anyway.

[JohnRich 4]

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Yet they were pretty quick to assess that he deserved a medal. They quick to report he was killed in battle by opposing forces.

Basic info can be released by the public information office. Details are not. Any officer releasing investigation info without permission, before the final report is complete, is subject to discipline.

A soldier can still act bravely, even though the fire he is receiving is unknowingly from friendly forces.

Sorry to disappoint you, Skydek, but this is not an evil Republican conspiracy.

[kallend 2,106]

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Yet they were pretty quick to assess that he deserved a medal. They quick to report he was killed in battle by opposing forces.

Basic info can be released by the public information office. Details are not. Any officer releasing investigation info without permission, before the final report is complete, is subject to discipline.

A soldier can still act bravely, even though the fire he is receiving is unknowingly from friendly forces.

Sorry to disappoint you, Skydek, but this is not an evil Republican conspiracy.

Since you mention Republican conspiracies, I seem to recall the attempt to cover up the My Lai massacre was led by one Major C. Powell.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Sorry to disappoint you, Skydek, but this is not an evil Republican conspiracy.

Never thought there was. I asked a question regarding your military, not a political party.

I think this paragraph sums up my question:

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Army commanders hurriedly awarded Tillman a posthumous Silver Star for valor and released a nine-paragraph account of his heroism that made no mention of fratricide. A month later the head of the Army's Special Operations Command, Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger Jr., called a news conference to disclose in a brief statement that Tillman ``probably'' died by ``friendly fire.'' Kensinger refused to answer questions.

it certainly calls into questioin your statement of:

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Basic info can be released by the public information office. Details are not.

[JohnRich 4]

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it certainly calls into questioin your statement of:

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Basic info can be released by the public information office. Details are not.

That was in the context of talking about a fatality investigation, and is correct in that context. I have personal experience with same.

A valor award only requires a write-up from an officer, which is a far lesser degree of analysis, with looser restrictions on release.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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That was in the context of talking about a fatality investigation, and is correct in that context. I have personal experience with same.

A valor award only requires a write-up from an officer, which is a far lesser degree of analysis, with looser restrictions on release.

So, you find it perfectly normal that they would come out with a 9 paragraph report telling everybody that Pat was a hero and that he deserved a medal, yet fail to mention he got shot by one of his own? Even to his own family.

[billvon 3,067]

>yet fail to mention he got shot by one of his own?

Details details. Next thing you know, you'll want the military to mention that the successful bombing of an Afghanistan target was actually a wedding. No one's interested in those minor details.