SkyDekker 1,465 #126 December 10, 2004 QuoteNice try...I said if no one presses charges, or the courts don't convict, or there is now penalty, then its not a big deal... and then I put that same line of thought to task with a murder and in that case you said a murder was a ig deal. So, once again, which one is it? The crime is eitehr a big deal, or it isn't. or in your case it would seem that it depends on the crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #127 December 10, 2004 QuoteIn this case you have documentation, witnesses, and an admission by the man himself with the execuse that he was unaware it was going on. The witnesses and documentation refute that. You don't think that warrants investigation? Sure an INVESTIGATION...But thats different than punishing him without looking at the evidence. And this thread is about a jackass that willing joined the Army, an organization known for WAR. And him deserting amd running away from his commitment. And as I have said before...If he does not want to fight, fine.But he should face the music and go through the UCMJ process THAT HE SIGNED UP TO BE HELD TO, not run away."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #128 December 10, 2004 Quote or in your case it would seem that it depends on the crime. No, I think it depends on the accused for him. If it's a rich white republican accused of jeopardizing the safety of a nation, it's a witch hunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #129 December 10, 2004 QuoteSure an INVESTIGATION...But thats different than punishing him without looking at the evidence. Who said he should be punished? I'd just like to know the truth. I hope for all our sakes he didn't do it. But I'd rather know the truth if he did then ignore it. So am I correct that you are calling for an investigation into Cheney's involvement in sales to Iraq during sanctions? QuoteAnd this thread is about a jackass that willing joined the Army, an organization known for WAR. And him deserting amd running away from his commitment. And as I have said before...If he does not want to fight, fine.But he should face the music and go through the UCMJ process THAT HE SIGNED UP TO BE HELD TO, not run away. Oh yeah...that I agree completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #130 December 10, 2004 Quoteand then I put that same line of thought to task with a murder and in that case you said a murder was a ig deal. So, once again, which one is it? The crime is eitehr a big deal, or it isn't. or in your case it would seem that it depends on the crime. It does depend on the crime. I don't expect us to kill shoplifters. I don't expect a cop to execute a jaywalker on the spot. I also don't expect anyone to be punished without a trial. And without being found guilty. You however seem to be fine with the days of witch hunts, where all you have to do is accuse someone of the crime with no proof and they are burned....Nice world you want."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #131 December 10, 2004 Quote So am I correct that you are calling for an investigation into Cheney's involvement in sales to Iraq during sanctions? Sure as long as you are pushing to have the UN looked at. I am all about fair."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #132 December 10, 2004 QuoteIt does depend on the crime. I don't expect us to kill shoplifters. I don't expect a cop to execute a jaywalker on the spot. I also don't expect anyone to be punished without a trial. And without being found guilty. You however seem to be fine with the days of witch hunts, where all you have to do is accuse someone of the crime with no proof and they are burned....Nice world you want. Not what we were talking about.... You indicated that if some one did not get prosecuted for a crime, or if there was no proof, then the crime is not a big deal. I disagree with that statement of yours. You disagree with it when it comes to other crimes. Hence, you have somewhat of a double standard. Not sure where the whole execution and killing comes from. But then it would seem that americans are somewhat preoccupied with killing people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #133 December 10, 2004 QuoteYou indicated that if some one did not get prosecuted for a crime, or if there was no proof, then the crime is not a big deal. If you can't get enough proof to bring it up. If you can't get anyone to care enough to bring it up. Then its clearly not a big deal. Murder cases don't fall into that, Jaywalking does. QuoteNot sure where the whole execution and killing comes from. But then it would seem that americans are somewhat preoccupied with killing people. And I see you hate everthing about the US."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #134 December 10, 2004 QuoteIf you can't get enough proof to bring it up. If you can't get anyone to care enough to bring it up. Then its clearly not a big deal. Or it has been hidden well enough. Just one of many other possibilities. QuoteAnd I see you hate everthing about the US. Ahh yes, another logical conclusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #135 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you can't get enough proof to bring it up. If you can't get anyone to care enough to bring it up. Then its clearly not a big deal. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Or it has been hidden well enough. Just one of many other possibilities. So investigate, but you want to convict without any evidence... QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And I see you hate everthing about the US. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahh yes, another logical conclusion. Just like yours."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #136 December 10, 2004 QuoteSo investigate, but you want to convict without any evidence... really, where did I say that? or is this another logical conclusion? QuoteJust like yours. I left JK a long time ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #137 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuote So am I correct that you are calling for an investigation into Cheney's involvement in sales to Iraq during sanctions? Sure as long as you are pushing to have the UN looked at. I am all about fair. Sounds like a plan to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #138 December 10, 2004 Jeremy Hinzman was on Sixty Minutes Wednesday and had some interesting things to say. He joined the Army to defend the USA. He did NOT join the Army to participate in an illegal, immoral premeditated war of agression against Iraq. He pointed out that Iraq under Saddam, while it was a brutal dictatorship, was not a direct threat to the USA. His oath of service includes a passage related to NOT following orders that violated the Geneva Convention, or were illegal or immoral. While you personally may disagree with his action, he made his choice based on his own moral values. Everything he had to say makes perfect sense. As an aside, how come all you folks who are such great supporters of the Iraq invasion/occupation aren't in the military? If you can't make the regular forces, you can go into the reserves. They are really hurting for recruits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #139 December 11, 2004 QuoteHe joined the Army to defend the USA. He did NOT join the Army to participate in an illegal, immoral premeditated war of agression against Iraq. He pointed out that Iraq under Saddam, while it was a brutal dictatorship, was not a direct threat to the USA. His oath of service includes a passage related to NOT following orders that violated the Geneva Convention, or were illegal or immoral. He did swear to follow the lawful orders of the CiC and the offices apointed above him. And that he is not doing by running away. He has the right to question if an order is legal, but he has to face the penalties of his choices...But in this case he ran away. QuoteAs an aside, how come all you folks who are such great supporters of the Iraq invasion/occupation aren't in the military? If you can't make the regular forces, you can go into the reserves. Some of us have already served our country....Maybe those that have not should?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #140 December 13, 2004 Ron writes >>> Some of us have already served our country....Maybe those that have not should? <Perfect... you already have the required training to be in the reserves. What is stopping you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #141 December 13, 2004 QuotePerfect... you already have the required training to be in the reserves. What is stopping you? Its called Diabetes Mellitus. Whats stopping you?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #142 December 14, 2004 Still waiting for your answer. You know why I am not serving. Whats your excuse?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #143 December 14, 2004 Common sense. There isn't a chance in hell I would support ShubCo's Crusade by enlisting for anything. Iraq was the last country that engaged in a premeditated war of aggression in the Middle East. The UN coalition resolved that issue. Unfortunately, this time, the USA is the rogue nation. The UN can't boot the USA out of Iraq. At the rate ShrubCo is borrowing money, we'll be owned by Japan and China soon enough. ShrubCo's policies are rushing the USA to second rate status in the world economy. We won't be in control of our own destiny as we will beholden to our creditors. We will be just like the UK after WWII. Does a 33% drop in value for the dollar ring any bells? If the USA was invaded I would be one of the "insurgents" fighting against the occupying force. If the US was directly threatened by a rogue government, I might sign up. Neither of these conditions exist at this time. I was on a load with a jumper that had a known medical condidtion. He died after deployment and landed out. I sincerely hope that you are able to manage your diabetes so that you don't put others at risk like he did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #144 December 14, 2004 QuoteI sincerely hope that you are able to manage your diabetes so that you don't put others at risk like he did. I have shoes with more jumps than you. I would not worry about my ability to safely jump. I know what my limitations are, but thanks for your concern."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #145 December 14, 2004 QuoteUN coalition resolved that issue. If you're referring to the 1st gulf war, you need to check you history books... there was no "UN" coalition... there was nothing under a UN flag until after the cease fire was signed with the US. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #146 December 14, 2004 Quantity does not equal quality or skill. Nice to see "Skygod mode ON" with the lame comment about a pair of shoes. 800 is a number put in as a troll ... I quit logging jumps about 1987. I really don't know how many jumps I have. The reserves could probably use you if you can manage your diabetes well enough to skydive safely. If you are such a believer, sign up. Make them reject you even though you can skydive safely. Then you can puff up with pride and say, "I Tried". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #147 December 15, 2004 Rons already done his thing from what i read. How about a broader questionlike: Has anyone seen someone from their DZ leave the good life for god and country to enlist in the military? If so how many? Stop loss, activating the IR (drafted)and Merc's (big $$$$) don't count. R.i.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #148 December 15, 2004 Quote anyone seen someone from their DZ leave the good life for god and country to enlist in the military? If so how many? Stop loss, activating the IR (drafted)and Merc's (big $$$$) don't count. R.i.P. Kid, you ever heard of Hanoi Hanna or Tokyo Rose?Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #149 December 15, 2004 QuoteQuote anyone seen someone from their DZ leave the good life for god and country to enlist in the military? If so how many? Stop loss, activating the IR (drafted)and Merc's (big $$$$) don't count. R.i.P. Kid, you ever heard of Hanoi Hanna or Tokyo Rose? Hi RJ1 Who you calling kid, Son. OTOH I kind of like it I earned it by living this long R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #150 December 15, 2004 QuoteQuantity does not equal quality or skill. I have both. I don't need to hide anything. QuoteNice to see "Skygod mode ON" with the lame comment about a pair of shoes. Nice to see you try and slam me for having a medical condition. QuoteThe reserves could probably use you if you can manage your diabetes well enough to skydive safely. If you are such a believer, sign up. Make them reject you even though you can skydive safely. Then you can puff up with pride and say, "I Tried". #1. I have already done my time. Have you, or are you just a big talker? Never mind I know that already. #2. They were going to med me my last year in, I asked that they not med me and let me finish my hitch. #3. I was kicked out of the reserves for my condition. So why don't you stick to trying to slam people for medical conditions...You don't see willing to do much else."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
