Famous Athiest, Now Believes In God (not 'christian' God)

[Sinkster 0]

NEW YORK Dec 9, 2004 — A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God more or less based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."



Story Here

[quade 4]

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"It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Yeah, sounds like he has Flew definite handle on the issue . . . I suppose.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Sinkster 0]

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"It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Yeah, sounds like he has Flew definite handle on the issue . . . I suppose.

You say that as if he is flippant or half-assed about it when he is actually known to be a very serious philosopher.

In fact the article has him saying that he follows the evidence "wherever it goes" and has him stating why he believes in a God now, based on hard evidence.

He's wise to say he doesn't know more about what God is, but he at the very least he believes in an intelligent designer based on what he has studied.

[quade 4]

No. I'm not saying he's flippant about it. I'm being flippant because it doesn't sound like he's actually convinced he knows the nature of God, yet he claims to know that God exists because of the "evidence".

There is no evidence of the existance of God.

There is a lot of belief, but no evidence.

None.

If there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe.

Is this an early deathbed conversion?

Complexity by itself isn't a very logical explanation. Any species that can appreciate that complexity has to exist for it to happen. We just dont' know the odds of it happening, since we can't look very far in distance (or time, if you prefer) outside our solar system for others.

[Sinkster 0]

Flew is not going by belief. He is convinced based on actual evidence of the complexity of DNA that there is or was an 'intelligent designer'.

Now, he sure as heck doesn't know more about this 'intelligent designer', but he has no evidence for that. He only has evidence of DNA which leads him to rationally conclude that SOMETHING must have DESIGNED it. (aka. 'God', not random chance)

Edit:
What surprizes me is how quickly people dismiss Flew when his entire life has been about exposing the lack of evidence for a God and now he has rationally come to the conclusion that a God must (or did) exist based on his own research.

He still doesn't even believe in the afterlife!!!!

A deathbed conversion? hahahahaha! For what aim if he doesn't believe in life after death!?!?! LOL

[quade 4]

Looking at DNA and concluding that the only way it could be put together is by "intelligent design" is no more valid than looking at H2O.

It all starts as a simple chemical reaction. Add more chemicals and a few million years and you get things that reproduce themselves. Wait a few more million and the result is going to be something that questions his existance -- sometimes attributing to magic that which he can not currently explain.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[3ringheathen 0]

Hmm...
I read the article and he claims he's followed the evidence, but there's absolutely no reference to any evidence in the article. It just states that he can't imagine any other explanation.

Explaining the complexity of life by saying 'god did it' is no more valid than saying it just happened.

The position he's taking is fundamentally flawed, for attributing to God what one can't explain begs the question:
Where did this god come from?
And you're back to square one.
The cat chases its tail ad nauseum.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[jakee 1,489]

I agree, the guy has just taken the ultimate cop out. I wonder if he just got bored of explaining himself.

It is very strange how so many people insist on looking for a supernatural identifiable cause (god) for the universe simply because the mysteries of it are so unfathomable and impossible to know, yet these same peope will not countenance any discusions of the origins of this god because he is so unfathomable and impossible to know.


And breath......

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PhillyKev 0]

Philosophy is not science.

[jakee 1,489]

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Philosophy is not science.

Well if you take it back to the purest origins of the word philosophy is the love of knowledge/wisdom. Back in Greece the great philosophers were just as concerned with mathematics, physics and how the world works as they were with finding the underlying truth of the form of the good.

Having said that, yeah, modern philosophy is bollocks, especially when it tries to answer questions like this by making judgements on scientific issues. (In this case the likelyhood of DNA)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Sinkster 0]

Yeah, what does he know, he only spent almost his entire life of 81 years showing how there's no evidence for a creator. No wait, he found evidence, oh but everyone's an expert. Never mind.

[jakee 1,489]

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No wait, he found evidence, oh but everyone's an expert. Never mind.

Really? Please show me what evidence he has found through his detailed biological research. Or did he just change his mind.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Sinkster 0]

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No wait, he found evidence, oh but everyone's an expert. Never mind.

Really? Please show me what evidence he has found through his detailed biological research. Or did he just change his mind.

First of alll, he's not going to just "change his mind". His own words: "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."

Secondly, the article does not go into explicit detail about the evidence because it is just a news article, but apparently it is good enough for Mr. Skeptic to turn a 180. There's not enough information for us to go into detail on this.

Am I making an argument based on the reputation of this guy? Sure I am. But it's worth at least SOMETHING!! But no, his claim has to be dismissed off hand because it conflicts with what I'm secure believing.

In other words:
As an atheist Flew = Hero and brilliant man.
As a believer in a 'God' Flew = Moron and assbackward zealot.

Hmm....

[Dumpster 0]

Ever heard of C.S. Lewis? Pretty famous writer - (Chronicles of Narnia?)

He set out once to prove the bible all wrong - And it backifired on him.

Read his book "Mere Christianity".

My personal philosophy has been that religion is for the weak minded. But not all religious persons are weak minded. And not all weak minded persons are religious.

Easy Does It

[jakee 1,489]

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As an atheist Flew = Hero and brilliant man.
As a believer in a 'God' Flew = Moron and assbackward zealot.

As an Atheist Flew = Never heard of him.
As a believer in a 'God' Flew = kinda dissapointed. Wouldn't call him a zealot though, guy doesn't even know what exactly he believes now.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[freeryde13 0]

there are phyicists who are saying they are finding scietific evidence of god besides this guy. buckminister fuller described it loosely as the thing inbetween matter turning into anti matter a few million times. kind of like a pre string theory explaination of string theory in a way.

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yeah, what does he know, he only spent almost his entire life of 81 years showing how there's no evidence for a creator. No wait, he found evidence, oh but everyone's an expert. Never mind.

What response were you fishing for when you posted it?

That all us atheists would drop to the ground and start praying?

His new rationale isn't a new one in this world. He just chose to adopt it now.

The difference between an obvious act of a greater being and random chance or coincidence is merely in the perspective. Either explanation is possible and can not be disproven.

[billvon 2,989]

Bishop Renounces God

Near death experience cited as cause
Thursday, December 9, 2004 Posted: 7:39 PM EST (0039 GMT)

Bushwood Country Club, Ohio (ACP) - Bishop Pickering, a noted local theologian and longtime member of Bushwood Country Club, renounced God today after a close call with death

The startling announcement comes a day after thunderstorms and a record rainfall pelted the area, apparently ending Pickering's attempt at the course record - and nearly ending his life. Caddy Carl Spackler later described the event.

"Yeah, the Bishop was out there, and he was having the game of his life. A real Cinderella story, with the rain and the frogs and lightning and all - real biblical. Forty days and forty nights sort of thing. Then he misses his last putt. I didn't see what happened next, because there was a flash of lightning, and the next thing I knew the Bishop was lying there on the ground."

Spackler did not detail the events that occurred next, but the bishop survived his close call to return to the clubhouse early the next morning. The bartender at the clubhouse, Tony D'Nunzio, reported that the bishop began drinking early in the day and continued until confronted by Judge Smalls, a local golf enthusiast.

"I told him to pull himself together, for God's sake - he was a man of the cloth, after all. That's when he said it - 'There is no God.' We were shocked."

Other members of the country club, including local golf legend Ty Banks, expressed sympathy for the pontiff's plight, noting that they themselves have had similar close calls over the years.

Bushwood Country Club has recently been the focus of several other scandals, including the a recent acrimonious purchase attempt by financier Al Czervik and a gopher-extermination effort led by caddy Spackler that caused noise complaints and several thousand dollars worth of damage to the course. Local authorities are investigating.

[Zenister 0]

rotflmao....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PeteH 0]

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First of alll, he's not going to just "change his mind". His own words: "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."

Like Quade said, there's no evidence of the existence of god(s). There's also no evidence of the non-existence of god(s).

It's impossible to prove any of those two possibilies.

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Secondly, the article does not go into explicit detail about the evidence because it is just a news article, but apparently it is good enough for Mr. Skeptic to turn a 180. There's not enough information for us to go into detail on this.

Mr. Skeptic would be non-believer.
That philospher is a believer. Atheism is believing that god(s) doesn't exist.

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In other words:
As an atheist Flew = Hero and brilliant man.
As a believer in a 'God' Flew = Moron and assbackward zealot.
.

To me atheist and god-believer are both on the same level. Both may be brilliant people or morons, but on that one particular thing they lack some understanding or for some personal reason they put belief above knowledge.

Realizing the lack of evidence should logically only lead to agnostism.

[AggieDave 6]

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It's impossible to prove any of those two possibilies.

The way I look at it is, folks will believe what the want to believe. Be it in a god, no god, who the god is and what the god does, if there is one at all.

So I live my life (in respect to this topic) by my heart and believe how I want to believe, independantly of what other try to tell me.

And the way I look at it is, we'll all find out the truth for sure when we die.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mr2mk1g 10]

On one hand you are saying this is a clever guy to whom we should listen because he's devoted his life to thinking about this issue. You appear to be suggesting that he's finally seen the light and come up with the correct answer - that there is a God.

But then... this guy thinks Christian's are wrong. He believes their concept of God to be completely flawed. He doesn't believe that anything in the bible beyond the first two pages is correct. He doesn't believe we're watched over or that there's an afterlife.

Do you want us to listen to those parts of his message too? Or does he then become simply a raving nut who hasn't done his research when we move on to those points?

Which half of his message do you want people to believe?

I wish people would quit trying to recruit people. Let people believe what they want to believe. I wouldn't want to be so bigoted to tell someone that I am right and they are wrong when it comes to religion. If this guy’s found a God, cool for him. He, along with every single other person in the whole world, is in a minority when it comes to what [I]they[/I] believe in – there will always be [I]more[/I] people out there who believe you’re wrong, whether you believe in a God, no God, a Blue God, many Gods, wrathful God, peaceful God, trees are Gods... ad infinitum.

[Tonto 1]

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Is this an early deathbed conversion?

He's studying for his finals. Gotta be thinking

"What if I'm right? Nothing."

"What if I'm wrong? Mmm."

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[jakee 1,489]

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Realizing the lack of evidence should logically only lead to agnostism.

Simple question that I hope you'll answer.

Do you believe in Fairies?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?