Europe, thy name is cowardice

[Rebecca 0]

Got this from my dad, a dyed-in-the-wool republican, who's lived a good while in Germany speaking the language, enjoying the culture, making life-long friends, as have I. I thought it was pretty interesting, and more than a little refreshing to see some opposition to what seems these days to be a national, almost continental sentiment.

Thoughts?

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EUROPE -- THY NAME IS COWARDICE
(Commentary by Mathias D"pfner)

[Matthias D"pfner, Chief Executive of German publisher Axel Springer
AG, has written a blistering attack in the daily WELT against the
cowardice of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.]

A few days ago Henryk M. Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe --
your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of
your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England
and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before
they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to agreements.

Appeasement stabilized communism in the Soviet Union and East Germany in
that part of Europe where inhuman, suppressive governments were
glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other
possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in
Kosovo and we Europeans debated and debated until the Americans came in
and did our work for us. Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle
East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word
"equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by
fundamentalist Palestinians. Appeasement generates a mentality that
allows Europe to ignore 300,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder
machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the
peace-movement, to issue bad grades to George Bush. A particularly
grotesque form of appeasement is reacting to the escalating violence by
Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere by suggesting that we
should really have a Muslim holiday in Germany.

What else has to happen before the European public and its political
leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially
perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims,
focused on civilians and directed against our free, open Western
societies. It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than the
great military conflicts of the last century -- a conflict conducted by
an enemy that cannot be tamed by tolerance and accommodation but only
spurred on by such gestures, which will be mistaken for signs of
weakness.

Two recent American presidents had the courage needed for
anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. Reagan ended the Cold War and Bush,
supported only by the social democrat Blair acting on moral conviction,
recognized the danger in the Islamic fight against democracy. His place
in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have
passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in
the multicultural corner instead of defending liberal society's values
and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the
true great powers, America and China. On the contrary-we Europeans
present ourselves, in contrast to the intolerant, as world champions in
tolerance, which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily
justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more
because we're so materialistic.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of
additional national debt and a massive and persistent burden on the
American economy-because everything is at stake.

While the alleged capitalistic robber barons in American know their
priorities, we timidly defend our social welfare systems. Stay out of
it! It could get expensive. We'd rather discuss the 35-hour workweek or
our dental health plan coverage. Or listen to TV pastors preach about
"reaching out to murderers." These days, Europe reminds me of an elderly
aunt who hides her last pieces of jewelry with shaking hands when she
notices a robber has broken into a neighbor's house. Europe, thy name is
cowardice.

"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

[Kennedy 0]

A German native I deeply respect once told me this:

"For one thousand years the Germans have kept the Turks out of Europe. Now we are giving them victory by letting them walking across in peace what they couldn't charge across in war."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Excellent! Thanks for sharing that.

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Europe reminds me of an elderly aunt who hides her last pieces of jewelry with shaking hands when she notices a robber has broken into a neighbor's house. Europe, thy name is cowardice.

"In Germany, they first came for the communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.

Then, they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. 

Then they came for the Catholics.

I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak up."


- Reverend Martin Niemoller, German Lutheran pastor arrested

by the Gestapo, 1937, a decorated U-Boat skipper during WWI.

[jcd11235 0]

In America, they first came for the communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.
Then, they came for the druggies,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't use drugs.
Then they came for the dissenters,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a dissenter.
Then they came for the homosexuals.
I didn't speak up because I was straight.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak up."

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[christelsabine 1]

JohnRich, you surely were waiting for a German reply, right?

OK, here it is:

Europe is not Germany. Germany is not Europe. I am surprised, not to say shocked! to realize how low is America(n)'s knowledge about "Europe" and "Germany". Generalization will not help "you" to really assess Europe or Germany. It needs more. At the very first, it needs more (liberal and university) education.

Bad example of education over there.

Even our 10 y/o children know much more about the US and the rest of the world. They know what Europe means and Germany is. French kids know what France is and Europe means. That's a difference, dear JohnRich.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[lawrocket 3]

Most Americans are educated sufficiently to know that Germany is not Europe. That's because we learned at early ages about WWI and WWII, where we Americans prevented Germany from becoming Europe. And we John Wayne Americans make no apologies for preventing Germany from becoming Europe.

We like Mercedes and BMW. We don't trust French cars like Peugots. We like Swedish Volvos and even love high performance Italian cars. We know the difference between European states.

We also know that good beer comes from Belgium and England, unless you like those light German and Slavic beers. French beers are as lousy as French wines are good. We know differences in Europe.

But we also know that most of Europe is unified in its apathy and appeasement. The European Union (hey, it's Europe that made it, not us) will generally unite as a greater force. The Euro (you guys created it) unifies you even greater.

Thank America that Germany is not Europe. If there's anything high school students learn in history class, it's that Germany ain't Europe.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Rebecca 0]

Liebe Christel,

I glaube nicht, das er die Unterschied zwischen Deutschland und Europa nicht kennt. Es war ein Deutscher, der dieses Kommentar geschrieben hat. (Entschuldiging fuer die Fehler - Deutsch schreiben koennte ich nie gut machen)

In fact, the title of Dad's e-mail was "A German Speaks." As in, he speaks as a German and as a European.

Despite the truth that our level of education is behind that of Germany, and many other European countries, there are those of out there who know a thing or two oder drei.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[christelsabine 1]

But we also know that most of Europe is unified in its apathy and appeasement. The European Union (hey, it's Europe that made it, not us) will generally unite as a greater force. The Euro (you guys created it) unifies you even greater.
______________________________________________________

Euro is strong, right? Gives new measuremens in international markets, right?

Europe is not "united in its apathy and appeasement". That's simply BS.

F.e.:
What's about GB, Spain, Poland... They were with the US in "their" holy war in Iraq. Against the main rest of Europe

Europe is a statement. That day will come, even it needs many more years . And that's exactly, what the US dislike. Live with it. You all were coming from somewhere beyond the Great Pond. From Europe, f.e. Ask your oldies

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[courage 0]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html

[Rebecca 0]

Why are you being so defensive?

And what do you think about the article? Do you agree with any of it, disagree, not care? C'mon, whip out that German education and impress us!

As for the countries who joined us... well, I don't know about popular sentiment in Spain and Poland, but many Brits are against us and the war - the war which is in no way "holy" on our part.

Oh, and could you explain what, exactly, the US dislikes about Europe? That you're unified/unifying?

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[rehmwa 2]

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Even our 10 y/o children know much more about the US and the rest of the world. They know what Europe means and Germany is. French kids know what France is and Europe means. That's a difference, dear JohnRich.

That sure read like a pot accusing the kettle type statement.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rebecca 0]

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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html

What's your point? We're not discussing the given, that the US is behind a whole bunch of other countries in a whole bunch of measures of education. We all know that. Doesn't mean I'm illiterate. In fact, I was educated in Germany for my first six years of school.


So, does anyone want to discuss the article I posted, or just hijack this into a US vs. Europe-which-is-not-Germany?


(Nothing personal, Courage! )

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[crozby 0]

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But we also know that most of Europe is unified in its apathy and appeasement.

Its interesting that what you guys see as apathy, we tend to see as simply not wanting to interfere in the business of other nations. Maybe the experience of clearing up the mess left by years of colonial empire building has taught us something you guys are only just starting to learn.

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where we Americans prevented Germany from becoming Europe. And we John Wayne Americans make no apologies for preventing Germany from becoming Europe.

The first problem with the 'You would all be speaking German now if it wasn't for the USA' line is that it simply isn't true. The USA helped prevent Hitler from taking over Europe. Eventually. After the really hard work had been done by others.

The second problem with it is that most Europeans around today weren't even born at the time of the second world war. So it's a bit like me saying that you Americans would all be speaking French if we Brits hadn't won the battle of Waterloo. i.e. It's bollocks.

The third problem with it is that almost without exception the Americans spouting it weren't even born at the time of the second world war either, they are merely stealing credit for something they think their ancestors did. Which in fact they didn't.

When were you born Lawrocket?

[christelsabine 1]

Thx for your mssg. BTW: Good German
I do not believe, "he" (I will not call himself as a person) knows the difference. Most folks outside Europe do not know. And many inside do not know, too. There are too big differences, starting with the West/East and the North/South slope. Europe is far away from being considered as one continent. It will be one day, that's for sure. As a necessity. We are working on that and surely will succeed. As a necessity.

What you (or your dad) declare as "A German speaks" is untrue in my eyes and ears. That's never any general Germans opinion and speaking. For me it sounds like a nice little fairy tale.

Anyhow, SC is a fine place to discuss about such matters.

If I would be a very smart one, my reply would be:

America, your name is ....... (chose)

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[jcd11235 0]

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We also know that good beer comes from Belgium and England, unless you like those light German and Slavic beers. French beers are as lousy as French wines are good. We know differences in Europe.

C'mon. The BEST beer is brewed in Ireland.

Besides, Guiness is the only beer I know of with downward moving bubbles after the pour!

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[christelsabine 1]

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Most Americans are educated sufficiently to know that Germany is not Europe. That's because we learned at early ages about WWI and WWII, where we Americans prevented Germany from becoming Europe.
_______________________________________________________

Did you know that beside WWI or II there is another Germany?

I did not live these times. But I am tired only to hear from Americans about these days. Isn't there anything else left in "your" head besides THIS??? Hey, we are a pretty little high educated industrial nation. Pretty girls, busy people, travelling skydivers. When, heaven, will "you" understand that we are simply kind folks? Trying to live like everybody, but prefer to live w/o any war? We had wars. Should be over one day, or not? Watch your own.

Watch Europe, watch Germany. That's fully OK. We do the same.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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[lawrocket 3]

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And that's exactly, what the US dislike.

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"their" holy war

What about California and New York and Massachusetts? What about Michigan and Washington and Oregon? They didn't vote for Bush. Against the rest of America.

Why must you lump all Americans together?

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What's about GB, Spain, Poland... They were with the US in "their" holy war in Iraq

Shouldn't it be "our" holy war?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Rebecca 0]

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Thx for your mssg. BTW: Good German

Thanks!

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What you (or your dad) declare as "A German speaks" is untrue in my eyes and ears. That's never any general Germans opinion and speaking. For me it sounds like a nice little fairy tale.

I'm confused. What do you mean, that's never any German's opinion? A German wrote that article, no one made it up. I'll find the link for you if you want. That's what the title means: A German, the author, spoke (wrote) what he thinks. It's not what we in the US are typically hearing from that side of the pond these days.

So you don't think that Europe as a whole, or Germany or any of Europe's other parts should change their ways of historically dealing with "issues"? Do you think that Germany and the rest of Europe acted quickly to recognize and contain the threats and atrocities mentioned? Do you think that the extreme fundamentalist Muslims, some of whom are living in your country right now, need a holiday to make peace with the "West"? Do you think we should just ignore genocide when we have the power to stop it?

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[beowulf 1]

I think this commentary illustrates what I have always thought, that europeans in general would rather sit around talking and issuing resolutions after resolutions while sneaking money out the back door then take action. They gave Saddam way to much leeway. All the while Saddam was making money and living high on the hog while many of his people starved. Even though weapons of mass destruction were not found, the US still did the right thing.

[christelsabine 1]

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Why are you being so defensive?

___________________________________________________

Defensive? Me?

I replied to you. Whoever created that little story does not know anything about Europe or Germany. That's for sure.

You created a nice little thread, that's for sure, too

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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[beowulf 1]

Explain it to us stupid americans.

[markd_nscr986 0]

***C'mon. The BEST beer is brewed in Ireland.

Rebecca,thanks for the read.......christelsabine,thanks for the "whine" and jcd11235,thanks for your "brilliant" insight,the best beer does indeed come from Ireland

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[beowulf 1]

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***C'mon. The BEST beer is brewed in Ireland.

Rebecca,thanks for the read.......christelsabine,thanks for the "whine" and jcd11235,thanks for your "brilliant" insight,the best beer does indeed come from Ireland

The Irish make great whiskey too.

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[Rebecca 0]

You know, one other thing: It was a long time ago, and the "If it wasn't for the US, you'd all be (fill in)" line about WWII is irrelevant.
HOWEVER, if my country survived one of the worst dictators in history who was responsible for the deaths of millions killed only because of their heritage, well, I'd be the first on the "Oust The Genocidal Maniac" bandwagon.

Maybe that's just me.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[christelsabine 1]

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Thx for your mssg. BTW: Good German

Thanks!

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What you (or your dad) declare as "A German speaks" is untrue in my eyes and ears. That's never any general Germans opinion and speaking. For me it sounds like a nice little fairy tale.

I'm confused. What do you mean, that's never any German's opinion? A German wrote that article, no one made it up. I'll find the link for you if you want. That's what the title means: A German, the author, spoke (wrote) what he thinks. It's not what we in the US are typically hearing from that side of the pond these days.

So you don't think that Europe as a whole, or Germany or any of Europe's other parts should change their ways of historically dealing with "issues"? Do you think that Germany and the rest of Europe acted quickly to recognize and contain the threats and atrocities mentioned? Do you think that the extreme fundamentalist Muslims, some of whom are living in your country right now, need a holiday to make peace with the "West"? Do you think we should just ignore genocide when we have the power to stop it?

______________________________________________________

Holy Moses, Rebecca, what an outbreak:

What do you want ? Me, replying on every single point of that crap? C'mon, slow down.

Fundamentalist Muslims? Holy cow...
Ignoring genocide? Holy crap....

Holy shit, what an outburst.

Bwahaha

dudeist skydiver # 3105