jcd11235 0 #76 December 20, 2004 QuoteNot an accident - intent. Ya know, if a war is going on in your country, civilians are going to be a casualty. We'd be mixing apples and oranges on casualties of war in that country versus commitment in the aid of assisting that country with their war. So civilian deaths do not apply towards human sacrifice? Then we were pretty late getting invoved, because there were millions that could have been saved. So I guess we still didn't save the world, did we?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #77 December 20, 2004 QuoteNo, I don't think that the average % of assholes per country is equal across the boards. It seems that Americans do tend to be more egocentric than other nations. So, when the ignorance that others accuse us of is blatant, it's a bit embarrassing. How about how some other countries claim we are ignorant compared to them? Thats pretty arrogant on its own."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #78 December 20, 2004 >I am seeking numerical proof...like that of a study that states that > Americans are more EGOcentric than say, Canada...otherwise...those >are just blanket generalities...that are based on opinion, not fact... When I was bike touring in europe, it was easy to spot the americans. They were generally the ones doing all the talking, and treating the locals like hicks. I remember one campground in northern france where a guy from the US was telling a french biker that people in the US know to modify their bikes for touring; those narrow roadbike tires were no good. Because, of course, the french know next to nothing about long distance biking. We had no problems with people disliking us as americans except in heidelberg, which was one of the biggest cities we stayed in. I spoke bad french and heidi spoke spanish, and between the three languages we didn't have much trouble. One day in belgium, after telling someone about our route in broken french, a fellow biker asked where we were from. "The US," I told them. "Oh! We thought you were from england, because you seem nice," they told us. My experience in africa was interesting. In the big cities the locals hated the whites, primarily because the whites were all doing well and the locals were dirt poor. They hadn't been poor before the white men got there, but now they were poor by comparison. In the small cities they were wary but curious. In the small villages they absolutely loved us. They'd throw parties when we came. It took me a while to figure this out. In the small villages, the only white people they had seen had been peace corps volunteers, and although they found the peace corps people very odd, it was clear that they were trying to help - so they thought all whites were helpful and friendly. It was a really sobering lesson on what perception can do. So it can go both ways. When we do good (which we often do) people see that and respond well to it. When we're greedy and loud, people see that as well. Something to think about as we present ourselves both in good ways and in bad ways to the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #79 December 20, 2004 QuoteSomething to think about as we present ourselves both in good ways and in bad ways to the world. Only if you care. We're remined time and again that many people don't give a crap how the rest of the world perceives us. Unfathomably, it doesn't matter to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirage63 0 #80 December 20, 2004 ?? So your saying for the most part there is nothing in our history that makes you proud? Come on there's got to be something. Hell we got more and better jump planes and our jump tickets are lower.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #81 December 20, 2004 QuoteAnd, I still don't care what other effeminate countries have to "feel" about it. Shit, you're making me horny, you stud you! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #82 December 20, 2004 QuoteShit, you're making me horny, you stud you! LMAO. You French folks sure can tell a good joke and build cool statues. By the way, thanks for your help when we needed it overthrowing tyranny back during the revolution. We couldn't have done it without you.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #83 December 20, 2004 Quote?? So your saying for the most part there is nothing in our history that makes you proud? There are events that make me "proud" for lack of a better word. There are people in history that I admire. However, as a whole, I would not look at America's history and feel pride. It's not as though we've had a such a terrific history with minor bumps here and there.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #84 December 20, 2004 QuoteBy the way, thanks for your help when we needed it overthrowing tyranny back during the revolution. We couldn't have done it without you. Thanks, but I slep that one out! In all seriousness, I doubt that the motivation from the King of France to send troops to the US was the fight against tyranny! It was just another way to try to stick it to the Brits. It always seems to be that way: the higher powers fight for supremacy, while the poor fuckers, who are the ones filled with beautiful ideologies of freedom and equality, are the ones dropping blood on foreign lands... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #85 December 20, 2004 QuoteI've been wanting to post these 2 question to all of the Americans in here for a while, but for some reason I haven't untill now, so here goes... How do you guys think that Europeans feel about the USA as it is today? How do you think Europeans react to the re-election of your president? Just curious I guess. Ahhh! For a long time I've wanted to have an intelligent discussion on this topic with Americans and Europeans alike, but now I don't care what they think of us, especially France. In terms of the election, I think it's a complete riot to observe the near panic that has stricken that continent. Funny sh*t. Maybe they should be concerned, maybe not.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #86 December 20, 2004 The more things change, the more they stay the same.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #87 December 20, 2004 QuoteThe more things change, the more they stay the same. Yep! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #88 December 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteAre you embarrased that this nation has sacrificed hundreds of thousands of its sons to free ALL of Europe during WWII This is an arrogant, uninformed claim. We didn't enter WWII until after most of the work had been done and most of the human sacrafice had already been made. We didn't save the world during WWII. There was a lot of effort put in, and a lot of deaths on all sides, but can you really say "most of the work was done" before the US began pouring troops into Britain? It's not like the Nazis were reeling on their heels when the allies invaded Normandy. (ps - the death count prior to US involvment is not very relevant because Russians thought the best way to take a machine gun nest was to get everyone shot until they ran out of bullets. During Nazi eastern movement, if ten Russians died for one Nazi, the Russians counted this as success because they outnumber the nazis by more than ten to one.) edit: I had a great time and got along fabulously with most continetals. The only times I had problems were dealing with Air France employees and some people in London. Oh yeah, and getting ripped off when exchanging currency sucks, but that happens to everybody. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #89 December 20, 2004 Quote(ps - the death count prior to US involvment is not very relevant because Russians thought the best way to take a machine gun nest was to get everyone shot until they ran out of bullets. During Nazi eastern movement, if ten Russians died for one Nazi, the Russians counted this as success because they outnumber the nazis by more than ten to one.) I am not going to discount the value of the sacrifice because of possible poor judgement of the military commanders. It's completely unfair for Americans to take credit for saving the world from the Naziswithout acknowledging that we only made up one member of a much larger team.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #90 December 20, 2004 http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance/tables/reg-budget/large04.htm. In reply to someones WE GIVE THE MOST EDIT TO ADD: Poke around on the site. There is some good reading on thereI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #91 December 20, 2004 Quote I am not going to discount the value of the sacrifice because of possible poor judgement of the military commanders. It's completely unfair for Americans to take credit for saving the world from the Naziswithout acknowledging that we only made up one member of a much larger team. So remove the US from the equation (no troops, no exports) and tell me that Britain wouldn't have fallen by the end of 1942, Russia soon thereafter. Europe let Germany rebuild to the point where it had little trouble taking over the bulk of Europe, slowed only the the Channel and the cold Russian winter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #92 December 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteLet's ask the women of these countries if they do not cherish the "opportunity" to get an education, the "opportunity" to vote, the "opportunity" to be more than second rate slaves. Or, you could ask the women in this country if they enjoy things like glass ceilings or lower salaries. The glass ceiling still exists to a degree, but its days are numbered, and the wage inbalance is essentially gone. The 70some cents on the dollar differential stems from career choice more than anything else. In the high tech bay area, you'd be hard pressed to find examples of unequal pay for the same work. And having equal access to education is the key. That and democracy will lead towards equality. Without it, not a chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #93 December 21, 2004 QuoteSo remove the US from the equation (no troops, no exports) and tell me that Britain wouldn't have fallen by the end of 1942, Russia soon thereafter. Or, remove Brittain or Rusia from the equation. Better yet, remove them both from the equation, and pretend we had to do it singlehandedly. Do you really think we would have dominated a German army that had not already been fatigued, all by ourselves? QuoteEurope let Germany rebuild to the point where it had little trouble taking over the bulk of Europe, slowed only the the Channel and the cold Russian winter. We sat back, too. We saw it going on and did nothing. BTW wasn't this about the same time that Prescott Bush had some sizeable investments siezed by the US government under the trading with the enemy Act?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #94 December 21, 2004 QuoteThe glass ceiling still exists to a degree, but its days are numbered, and the wage inbalance is essentially gone. The 70some cents on the dollar differential stems from career choice more than anything else. In the high tech bay area, you'd be hard pressed to find examples of unequal pay for the same work. And having equal access to education is the key. That and democracy will lead towards equality. I wasn't aware of that. Glad to hear it. I agree with you about education, but I have to add that it requires well informed voters for a democracy to be effective.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #95 December 21, 2004 QuoteSo remove the US from the equation (no troops, no exports) and tell me that Britain wouldn't have fallen by the end of 1942, Russia soon thereafter That's speculation. The battle of Britain pretty much ended in October 1940. Without air superiority, the Germans did not stand much of a chance to invade Great Britain. The Russian turned the tide at the battle of Stalingrad, in October of 1942. That preceeds the landing of the Americans and allied forces in North Africa. The US played a crucial role in supplying Great Britain while Germany was trying to enforce a blocade. And it played a very essential part in the defeat of Germany. But I think that claiming that it was the only factor in Nazi Germany's desmise is innacurate. QuoteEurope let Germany rebuild to the point where it had little trouble taking over the bulk of Europe, slowed only the the Channel and the cold Russian winter. You are right regarding the rebuilding statement. However, terrain is an essential part of any military campaign. The fact that the British and Russian used it to their advantage was crucial. The US is also blessed with very useful natural defenses against its potential super-power enemies. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #96 December 21, 2004 QuoteWithout air superiority, the Germans did not stand much of a chance to invade Great Britain. They would have had it with improvements in rocket technology, particularly guidance systems, and the advent of jets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #97 December 21, 2004 QuoteThey would have had it with improvements in rocket technology, particularly guidance systems, and the advent of jets. Probably. But they were still a couple of years away from developping these as reliable means of payload delivery, if I am not mistaken. The British managed to stall long enough for the big players to get their shit together... (Although these bastard cheating Brits were using radars against the mighty luftwaffe! Can't trust them...) "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #98 December 21, 2004 QuoteAre you embarrased that this nation has sacrificed hundreds of thousands of its sons to free ALL of Europe during WWII, embarrassed that we continually give money and effort to nations that have been engulfed in civil or economic strife. Are you embarrassed to be a citizen of a country that is the leading forefront on the establishment of democratic principles when other regimes have failed. You embarrassed because we freed a country from a dictatorship, female bondage, slavery, no civil rights and genocide? Stop being embarrassed America. Stand proud. Walk with your head held high. Afghanistan recently held their first election in how many years? In the coming months, Iraq will hold the first elections in over 30 years. Is it perfect. - no... but is it better than what they had? Right freakin' on, Keith. Right freakin' on. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #99 December 21, 2004 QuoteHere's another question: Do we Americans really care? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- well, that sums it up really. the Bush administration & its supporters are only dimly aware that a world exists outside of the US borders, and really don't give a shit about it. Sorry to break this to you, but I have travelled to 4 other continents. I am aware of the world we live in. My point is, the USA had an election and chose our current POTUS. It is our right to choose our leader. It is no one elses business who we decide to choose. I do not question who is elected in other countries as I do not have a vote there. So the Europeans are supposedly upest with our choice. Big deal! There will be another election in '08. It may be a Democrat this time...who knows. I have nothing against the populus of other nations unless their plan is to do us harm. I am an American first and part of the world body second. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #100 December 21, 2004 QuoteIt is our right to choose our leader. Is it? As far as I am aware we do not have a popularly elected leader in this country, and never have. I think you might be confusing this Republic with a democracy. QuoteI am an American first and part of the world body second. I feel exactly the opposite.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
