Ron 10 #51 December 27, 2004 QuoteAnd the answer is NO. There is nothing specifically Christian about he founding of the nation. And what about swearing on a BIBLE and kissing it? You never answered that one. QuoteThat's not what you wrote here: And the question was Founded on Religious Beliefs. (Notice not Christanity by name) And the answer is ....Yes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's not what you wrote here: I saidQuoteThat does not mean that the US was not founded on Christain beliefs That is what I wrote...don't add your spin to it. And Adams seems to say he puts some stock in Christiaity by name. He would know since he was there at the founding."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #52 December 27, 2004 QuoteWhere does Genesis mention Jesus? Not by name, of course, but you do the math... coincidence? GENESIS OT (The Messiah would come from the Tribe of Judah; Talks of a ruler coming from the Tribe of Judah; one who’s rule will be all powerful) The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his. He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk. Genesis 49:10 NT *** List of Jesus' ancestors, going back to Judah, who was one of the 12 sons of Jacob. (Jacob's 12 sons were the fathers of the 12 Tribes of Israel). Luke 3:23-34 and Matthew 1:1-16 OT + NT Prophesy OT (Similarity with sacrificial offering of Isaac by Abraham) Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about. Genesis 22:2 NT For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 OT (Offered on a hill) Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about. Genesis 22:2 NT When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?” Matthew 21:10 OT (Took donkey to place of sacrifice) Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. Genesis 22:3 NT Saying to them, “Go to the villiage ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, tell him that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away.” This took place to fulfill what was spoken throuth the prophet: “Say to the Daughter of Zion, See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. They brought the donkey and the colt, placed their cloaks on them, and Jesus sat on them. A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, “Hosanna is the Son of David!”, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”, “Hosanna in the highest!” When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?” The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.” Matthew 21:2-11 OT (Two men went with him) Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. Genesis 22:3 NT They crucified two robbers with him, one on his right and one on his left. Mark 15:27 When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals – one on his right, the other on his left. Luke 23:33 OT (Three day journey – Jesus: Three days in the grave) On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. Genesis 22:4 NT Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; but they were kept from recognizing him. He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?” They stood still, their faces downcast. One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?” “What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. They chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. Luke 24:13-21 OT (Son carried wood on his back up hill) Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. Genesis 22:6 NT Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). John 19:17 OT (God will provide for Himself the lamb) Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together. Genesis 22:8 NT The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29 OT (Son was offered on the wood) When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. Genesis 22:9 NT When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals – one on his right, the other on his left. Luke 23:33 OT (Ram caught in thicket of thorns) Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. Genesis 22:13 NT The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe and went up to him again and again, saying “Hail, king of the Jews!” And they struck him in the face. John 19:2 More OT + NT Prophesy Prophecies fulfilled by Jesus More prophecies fulfilled by Jesus Evidence for Jesus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #53 December 27, 2004 I think Pajarito answered your question quite well. As for the reference to Jesus and the swearing in of the president, if the Bible that is used contains the New Testament, then the president is swearing on a Judeo-Christian 'book'. Perhaps someday a president who practises the Islamic faith will not place his hand on the Bible. But as of yet, it has not happened. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #54 December 27, 2004 QuoteI think Pajarito answered your question quite well. As for the reference to Jesus and the swearing in of the president, if the Bible that is used contains the New Testament, then the president is swearing on a Judeo-Christian 'book'. Perhaps someday a president who practises the Islamic faith will not place his hand on the Bible. But as of yet, it has not happened. Chris Genesis is part of the Torah, and Jews deny that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. You can't claim that as evidence of anything. Swearing on a Bible as part of an individual's oath is irrelevant to the issue of the founding of the Nation. There is not one official US document relating to the founding that cites Jesus or Christianity. And there IS one official document (the Treaty of Tripoli) that disputes that the US was founded on Christianity.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #55 December 27, 2004 QuoteGenesis is part of the Torah, and Jews deny that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. You can't claim that as evidence of anything. What Christians call the Old Testament contains more than 300 references to His coming. If we use the science of probability, the chances of just forty-eight of these prophecies being fulfilled in one person to be right at one in 10 to the 157th power. That's a 1 followed by 157 zeros! Here are just 15 prophecies that foretell His birth: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #56 December 27, 2004 QuoteThere is not one official US document relating to the founding that cites Jesus or Christianity. And there IS one official document (the Treaty of Tripoli) that disputes that the US was founded on Christianity And that treaty was signed by a guy that when he took his oath of office swore on a Bible and kissed it. His speech on that day when he took over mentioned CHRISTIANITY and his reverence to it by name. Quoteveneration for the religion of a people who profess and call themselves Christians, and a fixed resolution to consider a decent respect for Christianity among the best recommendations for the public service, can enable me in any degree to comply with your wishes, it shall be my strenuous endeavor that this sagacious injunction of the two Houses shall not be without effect. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #57 December 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteGenesis is part of the Torah, and Jews deny that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. You can't claim that as evidence of anything. What Christians call the Old Testament contains more than 300 references to His coming. If we use the science of probability, the chances of just forty-eight of these prophecies being fulfilled in one person to be right at one in 10 to the 157th power. That's a 1 followed by 157 zeros! So your saying there's only one in 10^157 chance that Jesus is the Messiah? Pretty slim odds to base your faith on.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #58 December 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteThere is not one official US document relating to the founding that cites Jesus or Christianity. And there IS one official document (the Treaty of Tripoli) that disputes that the US was founded on Christianity And that treaty was signed by a guy that when he took his oath of office swore on a Bible and kissed it. His speech on that day when he took over mentioned CHRISTIANITY and his reverence to it by name. Quoteveneration for the religion of a people who profess and call themselves Christians, and a fixed resolution to consider a decent respect for Christianity among the best recommendations for the public service, can enable me in any degree to comply with your wishes, it shall be my strenuous endeavor that this sagacious injunction of the two Houses shall not be without effect. What his PERSONAL religion was and how he chose to affirm it has absolutely nothing to do with the founding of the nation. Is Wal-Mart a Christian Company? Are its practices of displacing small businesses by predatory pricing based on Christian principles just because Sam was a Christian? Was WWI a Christian operation? All the major participant nations were led by Christians. Was Watergate a Christian operation? Was Clinton's blow job a Christian act? Nixon and Clinton were Christians. You confuse the individual with the nation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #59 December 27, 2004 QuoteSo your saying there's only one in 10^157 chance that Jesus is the Messiah? Pretty slim odds to base your faith on. Sarcasm doesn't become you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #60 December 27, 2004 You just can't admit you lost can you?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #61 December 27, 2004 Quote What his PERSONAL religion was and how he chose to affirm it has absolutely nothing to do with the founding of the nation. Is Wal-Mart a Christian Company? Are its practices of displacing small businesses by predatory pricing based on Christian principles just because Sam was a Christian? Was WWI a Christian operation? All the major participant nations were led by Christians. Was Watergate a Christian operation? Was Clinton's blow job a Christian act? Nixon and Clinton were Christians. You confuse the individual with the nation. So why all the hubbub in the other thread about President Bush using God's name, if the individual is not representative of the nation?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #62 December 27, 2004 QuotePaul Harvey says: " I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution. Not personally maybe but this has happened in America, and is an ongoing struggle. The underlying implication that this is just one sided is therefore false. It also ignores the central point of separation (not that I agree with its application). Separation is the law, arguing that you don't sue over issues of non separation and so are being persecuted over issues of separation totally misses the point. Most people don't go out and sue over prayer/symbols etc, just as most people don't want to sue over the teaching of Darwin's theories, but there are always a select group of assholes out there. If they thought they had a snowball's chance in hell of winning, more cases would be brought against the teaching of evolution. Hearing American Christians blather ignorantly about Darwin's theories and advocating the teaching of creationism is the one thing that makes me think the ACLU has some value. It would be a triumph of ignorance over science to outdo all others. I remember the outrage over the Taliban blowing up the ancient statue of Buddah in Afghanistan, this would be infinitely worse. The discovery of evolution is possibly one of mankinds greatest achivements and some Americans are still in the darkages when it comes to it, merely repeating the same horseshit that it hasn't been "proven". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #63 December 28, 2004 QuoteYou just can't admit you lost can you? You contradicted your own post, and now claim to have won? What are you smoking?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #64 December 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteWe've established that the Treaty of Tripoli explicitly states that the US is not founded upon Christian beliefs. This was ratified by Adams and congress. Just becasue one President says it is not (After the fact I might add) does not mean anything. The fact that the US was not founded on the Christian religion was explicitly stated after the fact, but was implied at our nations inception. It is implied by the calculated, intentional absence of any specific reference to Christianity. Do you think that was a careless oversight? Further, Adams wasn't just "one president", but a President who was also an active participant in the founding of the nation, the treaty was approved by congress, and there is no record of any objection from the general public or any other politicians from the time. Think about it. No one objected to the wording of the treaty. Why? Because it was widely understood to be true. You seem to be arguing that since some of the founding fathers were Christian, than the United States is therefore founded upon the Christian religion. If that's your line of reasoning, then you are forced to also accept that the United States was also founded on utterly secular, even atheistic principles. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #65 December 28, 2004 QuoteIt is implied by the calculated, intentional absence of any specific reference to Christianity. Do you think that was a careless oversight? And swearing on the Bible when you take the oath of office is what? QuoteFurther, Adams wasn't just "one president", but a President who was also an active participant in the founding of the nation, the treaty was approved by congress, and there is no record of any objection from the general public or any other politicians from the time. And the same Adams also mentioned CHRISTIANITY BY NAME when he swore (On the Bible) during his speach at the inuguration. Almost every president has read a passage from the Bible after taking the oath of office. Most have kissed the Bible after taking the oath. QuoteYou seem to be arguing that since some of the founding fathers were Christian, than the United States is therefore founded upon the Christian religion. No my posts are saying the the US was founded on Religious principals. Its just really convienant that the same guy you say wrote a treaty in which he claims the US in not a Christain Religion happend to mention CHRISTIANITY BY NAME when he took the oath of office. You are making Adams look like a flip flopper like Kerry. QuoteIf you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me BTW thats a line in the Hitchhickers guide to the Galaxy."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #66 December 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt is implied by the calculated, intentional absence of any specific reference to Christianity. Do you think that was a careless oversight? And swearing on the Bible when you take the oath of office is what? A PERSONAL affirmation, not a statement about the nation. If you swear on a Bible as a witness in court, does that affect the authority of the court? You are confusing totally separate issues. WHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #67 December 28, 2004 QuoteA PERSONAL affirmation, not a statement about the nation. Gee, why do you think they do that as part of the inuguration? QuoteWHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity? And where did I say Christianity? I said Religion. I can show you several places where a diety is mentioned...The best you can do is some Treaty that was written by a guy that mentioned CHRISTIANITY by name when he was sworn in."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #68 December 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteA PERSONAL affirmation, not a statement about the nation. Gee, why do you think they do that as part of the inuguration? QuoteWHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity? And where did I say Christianity? I said Religion. In post #39 of this thread. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1406206#1406206 Of course, you mis-spelled it so maybe that's your excuse for denying it. ps does the inauguration REQUIRE a Bible, or is it the option of the president elect?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 3ringheathen 0 #69 December 29, 2004 Quote QuoteWHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity? And where did I say Christianity? I said Religion. Ron: It's clear in your first post, #9 in this thread: Ron's busted That you're specifically referring to Christianity. Just in case that's not proof enough, you again state it quite clearly in post 39: crystal clear. Is the fact that you've dug your own grave on this why you've resorted to insinuating that I plagiarized a quote from Douglas Adams? When you can't win the argument on merit, try character assassination? No worries, it doesn't bother me. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 3ringheathen 0 #70 December 29, 2004 Quote No my posts are saying the the US was founded on Religious principals. Its just really convienant that the same guy you say wrote a treaty in which he claims the US in not a Christain Religion happend to mention CHRISTIANITY BY NAME when he took the oath of office. You are making Adams look like a flip flopper like Kerry. 1) You explicitly stated Christian principles. Are you going to deplete your credibility meter by denying that yet again? 2) Given your own propensity for changing your story, it's ironic that you'd reference the supposed flip flopping of Kerry. QuoteIf you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me BTW thats a line in the Hitchhickers guide to the Galaxy. Is it? I'm only familiar with the "Don't Panic" bit. It's a vaguely similar sentiment, but not at all the same quote. I am passingly familiar with the book, but have never read it. If that quote is in the book, cite the page, please. Otherwise apologize for insinuating that I've plagiarized. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #65 December 28, 2004 QuoteIt is implied by the calculated, intentional absence of any specific reference to Christianity. Do you think that was a careless oversight? And swearing on the Bible when you take the oath of office is what? QuoteFurther, Adams wasn't just "one president", but a President who was also an active participant in the founding of the nation, the treaty was approved by congress, and there is no record of any objection from the general public or any other politicians from the time. And the same Adams also mentioned CHRISTIANITY BY NAME when he swore (On the Bible) during his speach at the inuguration. Almost every president has read a passage from the Bible after taking the oath of office. Most have kissed the Bible after taking the oath. QuoteYou seem to be arguing that since some of the founding fathers were Christian, than the United States is therefore founded upon the Christian religion. No my posts are saying the the US was founded on Religious principals. Its just really convienant that the same guy you say wrote a treaty in which he claims the US in not a Christain Religion happend to mention CHRISTIANITY BY NAME when he took the oath of office. You are making Adams look like a flip flopper like Kerry. QuoteIf you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me BTW thats a line in the Hitchhickers guide to the Galaxy."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #66 December 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt is implied by the calculated, intentional absence of any specific reference to Christianity. Do you think that was a careless oversight? And swearing on the Bible when you take the oath of office is what? A PERSONAL affirmation, not a statement about the nation. If you swear on a Bible as a witness in court, does that affect the authority of the court? You are confusing totally separate issues. WHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #67 December 28, 2004 QuoteA PERSONAL affirmation, not a statement about the nation. Gee, why do you think they do that as part of the inuguration? QuoteWHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity? And where did I say Christianity? I said Religion. I can show you several places where a diety is mentioned...The best you can do is some Treaty that was written by a guy that mentioned CHRISTIANITY by name when he was sworn in."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #68 December 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteA PERSONAL affirmation, not a statement about the nation. Gee, why do you think they do that as part of the inuguration? QuoteWHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity? And where did I say Christianity? I said Religion. In post #39 of this thread. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1406206#1406206 Of course, you mis-spelled it so maybe that's your excuse for denying it. ps does the inauguration REQUIRE a Bible, or is it the option of the president elect?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #69 December 29, 2004 Quote QuoteWHERE in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution or Federalist Papers is there ANY mention of Jesus or Christianity? And where did I say Christianity? I said Religion. Ron: It's clear in your first post, #9 in this thread: Ron's busted That you're specifically referring to Christianity. Just in case that's not proof enough, you again state it quite clearly in post 39: crystal clear. Is the fact that you've dug your own grave on this why you've resorted to insinuating that I plagiarized a quote from Douglas Adams? When you can't win the argument on merit, try character assassination? No worries, it doesn't bother me. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #70 December 29, 2004 Quote No my posts are saying the the US was founded on Religious principals. Its just really convienant that the same guy you say wrote a treaty in which he claims the US in not a Christain Religion happend to mention CHRISTIANITY BY NAME when he took the oath of office. You are making Adams look like a flip flopper like Kerry. 1) You explicitly stated Christian principles. Are you going to deplete your credibility meter by denying that yet again? 2) Given your own propensity for changing your story, it's ironic that you'd reference the supposed flip flopping of Kerry. QuoteIf you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me BTW thats a line in the Hitchhickers guide to the Galaxy. Is it? I'm only familiar with the "Don't Panic" bit. It's a vaguely similar sentiment, but not at all the same quote. I am passingly familiar with the book, but have never read it. If that quote is in the book, cite the page, please. Otherwise apologize for insinuating that I've plagiarized. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #71 December 29, 2004 QuoteRon: It's clear in your first post, #9 in this thread: Ron's busted That you're specifically referring to Christianity Wrong he said the founding Fathers were not Christain...And he was wrong. I also said I was not a Christain...And my sister was. Go fish. As for my next post:QuoteThat does not mean that the US was not founded on Christain beliefs. Was in response tou you saying they wanted the Government to be secular...Just because you may WANT it to be secular does not mean it was not based on certain principals. QuoteIs the fact that you've dug your own grave on this why you've resorted to insinuating that I plagiarized a quote from Douglas Adams? When you can't win the argument on merit, try character assassination? I did not see it as assasination. You however seem to be fine with taking someones work and saying its your own, then trying to blame me when you get caught. Says tons about your level of character, so this is done."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #72 December 29, 2004 QuoteOf course, you mis-spelled it so maybe that's your excuse for denying it. Oh bad me and good professor. You still never answered one of my questions. You ignore proof that proves you wrong. This is done for me...No point in trying to provide proof if you are just going to ignore. Quoteps does the inauguration REQUIRE a Bible, or is it the option of the president elect? The only option is if you choose to say Swear or Affirm. Only ONE president to my knowledge has chosen to Affirm. He also did not say "So help me God" which was not required, but was started by Washington. Also to my knowledge only one has not kissed the Bible after taking the oath."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #73 December 29, 2004 Quote God bless America, despite all her faults, she is still the greatest nation of all..... God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God... says you, i think my country is the greatest of all too, and i'm sure others in other countries do to. i feel sorry for the u.s. soldiers that have lost thier lives fighting the battle of the 'evil doers' (ha, you like that) but stay the fuck out of other peples problems until you can sort your own out first. stop killing innocent people. for what your god? peace? oil? what the fuck ever to secure peace is tro be peaceful you warmonger people like you make me very angry"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #74 December 29, 2004 Quote To secure peace is to be peaceful After all, it worked SO well for Carthage, right?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #75 December 29, 2004 Quotebut stay the fuck out of other peples problems until you can sort your own out first Does that mean we should not give any aid to other countries? I mean minding our own business and all."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 3 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mnealtx 0 #74 December 29, 2004 Quote To secure peace is to be peaceful After all, it worked SO well for Carthage, right?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #75 December 29, 2004 Quotebut stay the fuck out of other peples problems until you can sort your own out first Does that mean we should not give any aid to other countries? I mean minding our own business and all."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
