To all Christians out there.

[PhillyKev 0]

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I bet I claim less deductions than you do. The only deduction I ever claim is my 401k. I don't claim my charitable contributions....Do you?

Yes, I do, at least partially, I can't claim all of them, charitable deductions get phased out. Is it possible you don't claim anything else because your personal exemption exceeds your deductions and therefore don't itemize?

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I do mind paying taxes so lazy people can sit around watching TV. I do mind paying taxes to try and have the Government run healthcare.

And I mind paying taxes to execute unjust wars and to finance the war on drugs.

However, I think giving people health care and providing for those less fortunate is needed. That's why I voluntarily give some of my money AND some of my time to support food banks and health care charities.

I give more than just my taxes to the causes that I believe in. You stated that you believe soldiers should get more money. Are you willing to give that to them? Or are you just willing to give if everyone else is forced to as well via taxes?

[jcd11235 0]

You seemed to have missed where I said the current system is not working, and needs to be fixed.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

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Or are you just willing to give if everyone else is forced to as well via taxes?

Ah HA. The summary of politics. In the end, everyone is a liberal.

i.e., we all want our programs and we all want someone else to pay for them.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[PhillyKev 0]

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Or are you just willing to give if everyone else is forced to as well via taxes?

Ah HA. The summary of politics. In the end, everyone is a liberal.

i.e., we all want our programs and we all want someone else to pay for them.

Ahhh, but only one side of the fence seems to be calling for tax cuts AND more money for their causes.

[Ron 10]

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Is it possible you don't claim anything else because your personal exemption exceeds your deductions and therefore don't itemize?

Nope thats not it....I just don't care. If I buy a house I will duduct that, but the money I give to the RedCross, American Diabeties Association, and the March of Dimes I don't claim. Its not that much more I'd save, so I don't care.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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Ahhh, but only one side of the fence seems to be calling for tax cuts AND more money for their causes.

I disagree: to grossly generalize - one of my favorite things.
The democrats would quickly pass a bill that raises taxes for the rich (i.e., "can't someone else pay for it?") and cuts taxes for the poor - if the poor actually paid any taxes. They consider "People who do not pay taxes" to be "their people".
The Republicans want to remove programs supporting non-taxpayers to pay for their programs and reduce taxes for those that pay taxes. They consider "People who pay taxes" to be "their people".

again, all are liberals and want 'someone else' to pay for it. We just avoid the childish view that the "government" paying for it equates to 'someone else' rather than people who pay taxes to the government being someone else.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jcd11235 0]

As opposed to the Republicans, who favor corporate tax loopholes, and tax free stock dividends, so as to free corporations from paying taxes? Sounds like they want someone else to pay for everything, as well.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[PhillyKev 0]

Very true...in a general sense. Which is why we have taxation and social programs in the first place. So that, hopefully, informed and equipped agencies that have the ability at looking at overall needs can distribute funds appropriately. No, it's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than everyone giving to their favorite cause and the less popular, but just as needy and important causes, get left out in the cold.

I just find the whole argument of "I don't want my tax money paying for...." to be hypocritical. And now I'll generalize and say that argument predominantly comes from the right. Not that hypocrisy doesn't exist on all sides, but in the narrow field of this discussion about taxes and what they are spent on, it seems the right are a lot more vocal about what they don't want tax money spent on.

[Tf15 0]

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Common wisdom is that doctors bury their mistakes. Engineers get sued too.

OK, but don't you think that the added resposibility of a persons life is worth extra income?

I do.

In that case, why don't AFF instructors and TMs get paid like MDs?

Not all MDs deal with life or death decisions (pathologists?). And bad engineering can easily result in death (Bhopal comes to mind).

Three times is enemy action

[Lindsey 0]

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In that case, why don't AFF instructors and TMs get paid like MDs?

Not all MDs deal with life or death decisions (pathologists?). And bad engineering can easily result in death (Bhopal comes to mind).

This isn't a debate that I want to jump too deeply into, but pathologists make life and death decisions every day. Who does the specimen report come from? The pathologist.... What they do requires far greater knowledge than what your local tandem master needs to know. Far fewer people are capable of doing their jobs. To make that comparison is really, really reaching....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Tf15 0]

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In that case, why don't AFF instructors and TMs get paid like MDs?

Not all MDs deal with life or death decisions (pathologists?). And bad engineering can easily result in death (Bhopal comes to mind).

This isn't a debate that I want to jump too deeply into, but pathologists make life and death decisions every day. Who does the specimen report come from? The pathologist.... What they do requires far greater knowledge than what your local tandem master needs to know. Far fewer people are capable of doing their jobs. To make that comparison is really, really reaching....

linz

I agree on the knowledge part as far as a TM is concerned, but I don't think many pathologists have been sued for malpractice by their patients. Ron has switched from knowledge and time spent learning to responsibility involving life as a reason for high MD pay. I submit that (a new PhD in chemical engineering + a TM) possess the same qualities in at least equal measure as a typical new MD but their combined incomes, on average, are less. As someone said earlier, the medical establishemnt IS a cartel.

Edited to fix it. Mostly.

Three times is enemy action

[Ron 10]

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"I don't want my tax money paying for...." to be hypocritical. And now I'll generalize and say that argument predominantly comes from the right.

If I had a dime for every time I here some one say that about the war...Well I'd be in another tax bracket so you could tax me more

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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In that case, why don't AFF instructors and TMs get paid like MDs?

Because you don't have to skydive. It is a recreational activity

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Ron has switched from knowledge and time spent learning to responsibility involving life as a reason for high MD pay.

I have switched nothing. An MD takes 6-7 years and you will rack up 90k plus in expenses.

A TM takes 3 years and 500 jumps.

Not even close to the same amount of time, effort, or cost.

Edit to correct amount of money based on good info.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pajarito 0]

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I have switched nothing. An MD takes 6-7 years and you will rack up 200k plus in expenses.

A TM takes 3 years and 500 jumps.

Not even close to the same amount of time, effort, or cost.

More like 8 years after college and ~$85-90,000 by the time it's all over. Many more Residency programs are going to 4 instead of 3 years in duration. Some require even more than that. Med School prior to that is 4 years long. Residency is much the same, in that you receive little respect and put up with a whole lot especially if you're female (although, you do usually get paid some; it equates to what you might make flipping burgers at McDonalds with respect to the hours you put in; my wife was working 90-100 hours per week in her hardest rotations). It's legalized slave labor, IMO, and they work on no sleep for a very…very…long time. Within the last couple of years, however, they've supposedly changed the rules and require that the programs limit the number of hours Residents work to I think it was 80 hours per week. That will never suffice, though, because they've simply got to fill the time slots required. Anyway, it's a real "mother" and a huge stress on the family. I don't know if I'd want to go through it all again if I had the choice. And it was my wife and not me personally. I just had to take up most of the slack with regard to my three young children. Sure, the money is good now but you also sacrifice an awful lot. As arrogant as many are and as disliked as many may be, anyone who says that doctors don't deserve the larger incomes that they make doesn't really understand what's involved. Then there's the risk (very big risk in the case of my OB/GYN wife) of being sued (i.e. There is no OB/GYN Physician care in the county where my wife is from b/c they've run them all off with frivolous lawsuits. There was one case where, after the fact, the jury and judge both admitted that there was no fault in the case but "who was going to take care of this mentally retarded kid who suffered from unavoidable complications during the delivery?" No fault, but it's assumed that the doctor or clinic can afford to pay millions upon millions regardless. It's pretty ridiculous and it's putting many out of practice. One lawsuit like that where they afford crazy amounts like 80 million can put an entire clinic with many physicians out of business. It also makes them practice as selectively as they can with regard to which patients they want to see. Sorry......rant off.

Clarification: You receive your MD classification after Med School graduation (4 years). Then, you're required to do a residency in a more specialized area of medicine (3-4 years). So, Ron's statement about 6-7 years for an MD isn't correct. Maybe 7-8 (or more) to "practice" as an MD.

[rehmwa 2]

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As opposed to the Republicans, who favor corporate tax loopholes, and tax free stock dividends, so as to free corporations from paying taxes? Sounds like they want someone else to pay for everything, as well.

Do you even read what others write? It's the 2nd part of what I said. Without the extra partisan angst. Kev got it - he just replied an agreement and put in a tasty cheap shot based on his political alignment.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[PhillyKev 0]

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Kev got it - he just replied an agreement and put in a tasty cheap shot based on his political alignment.

As opposed to your post, which was completely unbiased and politically neutral?

[rehmwa 2]

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Kev got it - he just replied an agreement and put in a tasty cheap shot based on his political alignment.

As opposed to your post, which was completely unbiased and politically neutral?

I thought I was biased (and un-neutral - is that a word?) against both parties in the content.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[safetydave 0]

God bless everyone, especialy the wuffo's of christianity. People do not seem to understand advanced skydiving and become experts overnight. It takes a lifetime of learning to truely grasp Christianity for what it is. The opposition is what gives Chritians the appreciation for what they have.

[billvon 2,991]

>God bless everyone, especialy the wuffo's of christianity.

Generally referred to as heathens. Most every group has a way to describe people outside their own group - whuffo, heathen, vanilla, mundane, goyim, gaijin - and it's usually derogatory. Says something about the value we place on being part of a group.

[Muenkel 0]

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Most every group has a way to describe people outside their own group

Change this statement to "Most every group have individuals that have a way to describe people outside their own group" and I would agree with your statement.

Chris

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Chris

[billvon 2,991]

>Change this statement to "Most every group have individuals that have
>a way to describe people outside their own group" and I would agree
>with your statement.

If it were just a few individuals, no one would know what those terms mean. We use the term whuffo all the time; you use it yourself. Other groups generally use the other terms in the same way that we do. Often they don't even see it as an insult; it just means "people other than us."

I think it's a basic need of most people to identify themselves as part of a group, whether that group is skydivers, or christians, or the USA, or the republicans. In skydiving, that's often expressed by emblems (closing pin jewelry, T-shirts, hats etc worn in public places) and serves as a way for skydivers to identify themselves, among other things. Other people wear crosses or put bumper stickers on their cars. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as you don't take the next step to "they are different than us in a lot more ways than just their sport or religion, and therefore wrong/stupid/evil/ignorant."

[Muenkel 0]

I didn't say a few individuals. I'm agreeing with you. I just don't like sweeping statements about groups of people. Granted, most groups have a stereotype attached to them; but it does not mean every individual in the group fits the stereotype.

Chris

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Chris

[Zenister 0]

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as long as you don't take the next step to "they are different than us in a lot more ways than just their sport or religion, and therefore wrong/stupid/evil/ignorant..."

...going to hell... etc... which is rather difficult when that inclusion/exclusion is fundamental to your religion..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Lindsey 0]

...."As you know, on this side of the Wall we are Yooks.
On the far other side of this Wall live the Zooks."
Then my grandfather said,
"It's hight time that you knew
of the terribly horrible thing that Zooks do.
In every Zook house and in every Zook town
every Zook eats his bread
with the butter side down!

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>Change this statement to "Most every group have individuals that have
>a way to describe people outside their own group" and I would agree
>with your statement.

If it were just a few individuals, no one would know what those terms mean. We use the term whuffo all the time; you use it yourself. Other groups generally use the other terms in the same way that we do. Often they don't even see it as an insult; it just means "people other than us."

I think it's a basic need of most people to identify themselves as part of a group, whether that group is skydivers, or christians, or the USA, or the republicans. In skydiving, that's often expressed by emblems (closing pin jewelry, T-shirts, hats etc worn in public places) and serves as a way for skydivers to identify themselves, among other things. Other people wear crosses or put bumper stickers on their cars. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as you don't take the next step to "they are different than us in a lot more ways than just their sport or religion, and therefore wrong/stupid/evil/ignorant."

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail