billvon 2,991 #151 January 4, 2005 OK, sorry. I misunderstood you before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safetydave 0 #152 January 5, 2005 Try to hear what I am trying to say. I do not mean to be derogatory. Please don't assume things about where a guy is coming from. I mean well. I believe all human beings are equal in value. I just think some have had more time to study. Like a first time jumper compared to an experienced one. To become a good skydiver a guy should study to the last drop and not knock the advanced stuff he does not understand yet. Just as a person who studies Christianity may not see the light til later in life. It may take a lifetime of effort to see it. I originally wanted to support the Christians. No harm done. I can agree to disagree. Peace. Have any of the equally valuable non-Christians out there studied the Bible? I would be careful not to knock skydiving until I had studied it for a lifetime. It is difficult to accept Chritianity because it is complicated. Good luck. God bless everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #153 January 5, 2005 QuoteHave any of the equally valuable non-Christians out there studied the Bible? Yeah, some of us have.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #154 January 5, 2005 Quote Have any of the equally valuable non-Christians out there studied the Bible? I would be careful not to knock skydiving until I had studied it for a lifetime. It is difficult to accept Chritianity because it is complicated. Good luck. God bless everyone. quite a number of us have..... i'd prefer not to spend this lifetime chasing such a fundamentally flawed belief system... of course your mileage may vary..... how many christians have actually STUDIED the rest of the world's religious beliefs, and bothered to look for divinity for THEMSELVES, instead of having it interpreted 'for them' through the vision and belief of another?? i'll wager that number is far less than yours... but then "you bet YOUR life"...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #155 January 5, 2005 >Just as a person who studies Christianity may not see the light til later >in life. It may take a lifetime of effort to see it. I originally wanted to >support the Christians. No harm done. I can agree to disagree. Peace. >Have any of the equally valuable non-Christians out there studied the >Bible? I would be careful not to knock skydiving until I had studied it for >a lifetime. It is difficult to accept Chritianity because it is complicated. No problems there. Keep in mind that that goes both ways - some people study christianity for a long time before they accept it, and others study it just as hard and come to the conclusion that it is not for them, or that some other religion "got it right" and christianity didn't. Both viewpoints are equally valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safetydave 0 #156 January 5, 2005 One thing I do for myself is sort out what I consider misinformation/misinterpretation. I read it for myself. I do not agree with how most Chritians interpret the Bible. I read it and interpret it only in my eyes. I have not been to church hardly at all in my life, since that usually means another groups interpretation. I feel the less misinformation the less to have to sort out to find the sweet stuff. The stuff that means something to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #157 January 5, 2005 in that regard i totally agree with your approach... I'd like to suggest that you begin to read other religious texts with the same openness (vs contrasting them with the text you 'believe' already) and see what else 'fits' for you personally. in the end your relationship with God is entirely up to you.... far more people seem to believe their relationship with a church is what brings them closer to the divine...... they couldnt be more wrong.... I find a great deal of truth inherent the Bible every time i read it... but i in no way subscribe to the "this path and no other" approach that organized religion has (imo) placed as a means of control amidst the insight into the nature of divinity it does contain...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safetydave 0 #158 January 5, 2005 That's good advice. I don't mean to subscribe to this path and no other. If I come off that way, maybe I'll try to be more diverse. Currently, I fly by the seet of my pants. A sixth sense if you will. I feel we all have a sixth sense like the animals that run before the storm comes. A subliminal awareness we feel. I feel like our society attempts to controll us, and block our emotional validity. I like what feels right. Do you have any suggestions on reading material?(other than the Bible) I feel like I came with instructions within me, and the Bible seems to be the blueprints that match. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safetydave 0 #159 January 5, 2005 I've gotto go, thanks for the chat, I'll check any response later. Goodbye. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #160 January 5, 2005 here is a good list to begin with for the major religions i'd start with the Bhagavad Gita, The Torah, and the Koran to cover the large organized religions, then move on to the "Five Classics" of the Chinese (which include the Tau Te Ching) and then the Taosist/Zen literature for a completely different approach to 'religion' be aware the Bible has been amplified and expounded for a western audience for centuries... these are the major text representing each religion, but most are not combined and edited in the manner of the Bible and so you will have to read several seemingly seperate texts just to begin to get a good general impression of each faith. A great many religions put more emphasis on the oral traditions and teach the 'minor' texts and the principles they contain that way instead of having a single resource for their followers... it is also VERY enlightening to read the various Apocrypha's to see what the organized religions have 'excluded' and then question the motivations in doing so... beyond that i'd suggest reading EVERYTHING relating to humanity's search for a relationship with the divine that you come across...be it Roman/Greek/Norse/Mayan 'myths' etc... read everything with an open mind and a critical eye to see what the relationship is between 'God' and 'the faithful', attempting to see the underlying reasoning or purpose in the religions itself... was it a collection of fireside tales that developed into a church? a means to explain and appease the forces of nature? etc... it is interesting to see the reasons why a particular culture creates the religion that they do and what it says about Man and God. As you build a library take note of the timeline in the developmental pattern for each culture's religion. That says a great deal about the culture itself and the nature of it’s belief as it evolves from the more primitive aspects of religious faith... in particular, whenever you find your mind, your belief 'stopping' at an idea or concept that seems particularly 'alien' or 'wrong', try to set aside the western ideal and attempt to see the faith from the position of someone who knows or has no other belief system to contrast it with........ that also illustrates allot about each faith...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safetydave 0 #161 January 5, 2005 That's good stuff. I have a lot to study. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #162 January 5, 2005 when it comes to "God" everyone does...and always will...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #163 January 5, 2005 Very well said. Also, Jung spent a lifetime studying the connections between man myth and religion. I highly reccomend reading some of his thoughts on the matter, as it can be very enlightening, and objective. I cannot figure out if he was the son of a minister trying to prove his father right, or prove him wrong. It is worth pointing out, I believe, that some of histories greatest scientific achievements came from search for religious truth. Copernicus was a priest, and Newton was devoutly religious. Einstein claimed to seek the mind of God, saying everything else was detail. Science is a religion in its own right, filled with paradox. It is nothing more than the most accurate, or at least most popularly accepted, metaphor to explain our perceptions and observations of the world around us, at any given time. In a sense it is nothing but a constantly evolving religion. Einstein predicted that one day a theory would come along that was more accurate than relativity theory, just as he had done to Newtons laws of gravitation and inertia. There are several books, such as Fritjof Capra's The Tao of Physics that highlight striking similarities between modern physics and Eastern Religions.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #164 January 5, 2005 I have read the Bible and mnay other texts. I studied different religions trying to find mine. While I have read the Bible, I find it funny that a religion places it as fact. It is a book written by men trying to promote something. Men tend to spin things. It has been translated by people who have spun it. It is the first self help book every written. But to claim it is "fact" when several of the stories were in other cultures long before they supposedly took place in the Bible. It is a self help book. It is not a history book."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #165 January 5, 2005 QuoteIt is a self help book. It is not a history book. I put it on par with Dianetics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #166 January 5, 2005 QuoteI put it on par with Dianetics I put it a little above Dianetics. I put it even over Tony Robbins. But I don't take it as fact."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #167 January 5, 2005 Ok, yeah....you're right. Hubbard is the worst fiction writer in history. Worse than whoever the hell it is that wrote the Bible Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #168 January 5, 2005 QuoteWhile I have read the Bible, I find it funny that a religion places it as fact. It is a book written by men trying to promote something. Men tend to spin things. It has been translated by people who have spun it. It is the first self help book every written. But to claim it is "fact" when several of the stories were in other cultures long before they supposedly took place in the Bible. It is a self help book. It is not a history book. Don't look now, Ron, but we actually agree on something. Seslf-help book might be a little harsh, IMO, but much closer to accurate than history book.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #169 January 6, 2005 Quote While I have read the Bible, I find it funny that a religion places it as fact. It is the first self help book every written. But to claim it is "fact" when several of the stories were in other cultures long before they supposedly took place in the Bible. I agree. You can even find genuine plagiarism of ideas in the Bible. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #170 January 6, 2005 QuoteI agree. You can even find genuine plagiarism of ideas in the Bible. -Josh You would know all about it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #171 January 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteI agree. You can even find genuine plagiarism of ideas in the Bible. -Josh You would know all about it. Ron: You continue to state that I've plagiarized, but haven't cited any particular passage from the book. It's time to put up or shut up. What specifically did I plagiarize? Go get your copy of the book and look it up. Then post the quote and the page number so that everyone can see. You can't do it because it's not in the book. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #172 January 7, 2005 I have the entire five book (plus a short story) trilogy (Adams term, yes I can count). I'll look it up, but whichever of you two is right owes me fifty bucks. Deal? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #173 January 7, 2005 QuoteRon: You continue to state that I've plagiarized, but haven't cited any particular passage from the book. I frankly don't care what you think. You have to live with what you do, not me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #174 January 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteRon: You continue to state that I've plagiarized, but haven't cited any particular passage from the book. I frankly don't care what you think. You have to live with what you do, not me. Proof is important. Otherwise, you're just spreading unsubstantiated accusations. Not a very good way to discredit the person you're arguing with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #175 January 7, 2005 QuoteProof is important Religions don't seem to think so. QuoteOtherwise, you're just spreading unsubstantiated accusations That ever stops anyone? I don't have the time to look through three books to find a sentance. QuoteNot a very good way to discredit the person you're arguing with If you look at the start of this BS I asid that DA wrote that. He then accused me of accusing him. He could have said maybe, Im not sure but he blew it up. Like I said I could not care what he thinks. If Ihave the time between work and school to read some I'll look for it....Till then we will have me thinking he copied it, and him saying he did not. Like I said not worth my time either way."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
