suicidal parachutists?

[jeiber 0]

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The term BEAUTY is a good example for that.

Once again, you're taking words out of context to try and prove your point. Read the other definitions. Basing your argument on imperfections of the english language only demonstrates the imprefections in your argument.

Your vocabulary and grammer are better than most U.S. citizens. Don't use your ethnicity as an excuse - just admit you made a spelling error while discussing 'intellectual laziness' and admit to yourself the irony is humorous.

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Heh. You really ARE sophisticated :)

Do I detect sarcasm?! Ying, Ying, Ying, you were doing so well until now!

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However keeping to the dictionary definitions stiffly and relying on them thoughtlessly can be dangerous. Or at least misleading.

I disagree. I think fabricating one's own interpretation of commonly understood words is dangerous and at the least misleading.

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Unfortunately for you i’ve already publicly admitted that i think my English is pretty bad.

Now this is a very thought provoking statement. You accuse those of us that do speak and understand proper English of being 'intellectually lazy', yet you condemn your own understanding of the language?

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Communicational errors do occur. There’s nothing that can be done about it. The only thing we can do is to patiently explain what we orginally meant.

Yes they do, but by using words in their intended context, in which they are commonly understood, the probability for error is greatly reduced.

This being the case, 'suicide' already has a definition that is commonly understood. Every year new words are 'officially' added to the english language. Surely you can come up with a new word for your definition that surpasses 'ain't', 'dude', or 'pleather'!

Ying, I'm curious, can you throw a spiral?
Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[jeiber 0]

Let me correct a couple of my own misspellings:

imprefections - imperfections
humorous - humerous (doh! Now THAT's irony!!!)

There are probably more, but I guess I really don't care....

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[ying 0]

Maggotry; so you say i post here out of the need to be noticed? Yeah, i’ve been accused of it before, more than once, even though on my local forum i was 100% anonymous. Don’t you think that if what you wrote was true i’d reveal my name and make a suitable photo available? So what if my surename is known [ or is it? ;) ] It’s Chinese. Do you realize how many Jiangs there is in the world? You’d know more if i didn’t tell you anything ;)

My real motives are slightly different to those you ascribed to me. I simply wander various forums looking for sparring partners and discussion which i find enriching. Simply as that. And even if the number of posts in this thread doesn’t reach 250 as on freefly.pl, it really won’t make me feel disappointed because it is the quality and not the number of answers which is important.


Base311; turtles? You mean Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles? :) I remember watching it as a kid back in a pre Dragonball era. We were all big fans of Rocksteady, Bebop and Shredder. We’d root for them in every of their numerous fights against the awful turltles. But it would be always the four reptiles plus the rodent beating the shit out of our heroes. The script writer was so unfair :( Recently me and a friend of mine have came across a 13 year old video cassette with a few epizodes recorded. It was so inspiring that we’ve started to write a play based on the characters from the series. It’s an erotic thriller and it tells the story of Crang’s toxic relationship with April O’Neal. April is a bitch and she doesn’t treat the poor Crang well. She also constantly demands oral sex (of which he’s a true expert) from him. We really hope the National Theatre will be interested ;)


Justinb138, Jeiber; about the definitions again; well, you can usually trust the dictionary definitions as far as simple objects are concerned but with abstact concepts it’s not that easy. SUICIDE is a good example for that. What is written in dictionaries does not include all cases. I’ve been thinking about something else. Let’s take PAIN; my American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language describes it as:

“An unpleasant sensation occuring in varying degrees of severity as a consequence of injury, disease or emotional disorder”.

Note the presence of the adjective unpleasant. If you swich off your intuition and trust this definition completely, you’ll probably never understand the Masochists. Aftrerall pain is supposed to be UNPLEASANT. How come they like it? Do they feel it as pleasure? Or perhaps it’s the unpleasant feelings that are somehow good for them? The problem here is that the border between pleasure and pain is not sharp. The pain threshold varies from person to person. What’s more, some people’s brains transmit pain and pleasure signals in an untypical way. So, trusting the definition in this case is bound to cause confusion and lack of understanding.

Another example; GOOD versus EVIL :) Although there are cases which can be now easily categorized as definitely evil by the overwhelming majority of humans, for instance massive genocide in Auschwitz, quite a lot of people, namely Nazis, believed it was not only good but also absolutely necessary. Of course the ability to distinguish good from evil is essential to sanity but if we start to analyse the problem it will very soon become apparent that one man’s meat is another man’s poison. If one thing can be ascribed +good –evil features and at the same time it’s also –good +evil then something has to be wrong with the definition, don’t you think?

But my favourite example is REALITY. Six years ago Matrix popularised the basic worth asking questions concerning this problem. But the dillema is much older and reaches back far beyond 1999. Some people believe there is a kind of reality core we perecive and interpret. Others say that each brain vomits the reality out. And according to Buddhists nothing exists anyway, neither our minds nor the outside world. What makes the dictionary definition better than that?


Justinb138; so you say you’re surfing the internet during your work time and risk being caught doing it just for the sake of exchanging opinions with me? :) Wait till your boss knows about it. Unless of course you’re the boss ;) The stereotype is that Americans are hard working people. How come you have to tidy your desk not to bore yourself to death? Are you so good that you finish your work in a time shorter than it’s supposed to take or simply.... no, i won’t write that. It’d be too malicious and i like you so i’ll restrain myself from dropping malicious hints concerning your person. I wish your company quick overcoming the impasse it has reached.

About the Americans who know less; i’ve already told you – it’s a popular stereotype functioning in Europe. I wanted to check it for myself so i talked to some Americans. Usually, before i mentioned it, they had never heard about Poland and would mistake it for Holland. Ask yourself what is the structure of American news programes; what part of it is the reports from outside your borders? In Poland foeign reports are a signifficant part of the whole and they come first. America is a bit like the Roman empire - it focuses on it’s own self while small countries want to know what’s going on in the world outside. By the way, do you remember what happend to the Ancient Rome? :/

If you’ve heard about the 60th anniversary of Auschwitz liberation and the anniversary of the conference in Yalta then why did you wrote that Poland didn’t make the news recently?

About backing up the opinion that the Allies did nothing to stop the genocide. In my country we hear about Auschwitz as early as primary school. Until we finish the compulsory education at the age of 19 we hear about it some more. Not only during the history lessons. There is a whole part of literature concerning the concntration camps. And it’s not only at school that the story of Auschwitz is told. The memory of what happened there is kept inside the families and passed from one generation to another. The version of history i’ve been taught does not mention the Allies taking any direct action to prevent Nazis from what they did in the camp. Oh, there were Red Cross packeges sent but you wouldn’t call it serious help, would you? If you know about any Allies’ actions in the Auschwitz area do write about them. I’ve been short of time recently and i haven’t read the Auschwithz thread yet but i’ll surely do it. I’m indeed very curious what Americans and other people had to say about that tragedy.

About Chechnia, Tibet and Irak. I’m not complaining about US foreign policy. I’m just saying that America is being a bit selective in its crusade for the free world.

The end of the WW II and the conference in Yalta that took place then IS relevant in our discussion. Your argument was that Poland haven’t been making the news recently. Yalta is an example which shows that it is not true. Poland was sold in Yalta. Thanks to the decisions made by Churchill, Roosvelt and Stalin instead of becoming a free country we suffered 45 years of Soviet domination. And two or three weeks ago Russian MSZ announced that Yalta had contributed to making Poland strong, democratic and free. Everybody was outraged. All newspapers wrote about it. But i guess America’s too far away to pay attention to some minor European scandals.

You ask what my point is when i stress that i know more about your country than you know about mine. My point is that this is an example of a nation wide tendency the Americans reveal. Vide the 10th paragraph of this gargantuan post.

About the “especially from a person who has problems with single words” line. You took it out of context. It was the answer to what Happythoughts wrote. Why didn’t you point it out as a “personal attack” too? Looks like partiallity to me.


Jeiber; thanks for complimenting my poor English. It was surely very encouraging for such an unexperienced English user as myself. I know it is rude to polemicize when someone says something nice but i don’t agree with you. My vocabulary and grammar leave much to be desired. Believe me, my Polish is far better.

I don’t use my ethnicity as an excuse. I used it to show the nature of your attack on me. If i was an English literature professor your sneering would be well-founded. But i’m just a non-native speaker. I DO make spelling mistakes. And although i’d of course prefer my English to be perfect, as long as it allows me to communicate i’m not going to get depressed by its flaws.

I did not base my idea for this thread on imperfections of the English language. It was orginally written in Polish and it is based rather on the imperfections of some Christian assumptions. Although the imperfections of human language are something i stress quite frequently. Especially that our thinking is based on the language we use. Therefore we may say that the imperfections of the language cause the imperfections of our thinking. In that way you were right defining the basis of my argument.

Sarcasm; hmm.... should i understand that according to you sarcasm is bad and malicious comments on a foreigner’s imperfect English are OK? ;) If Jeiber be bad it’s good, if ying be bad it’s very not good? ;)

By saying my English is pretty bad I didn’t mean i have problems with understanding; i meant that my written expression is, well, crap. And intellectual laz-I-ness have nothing to do with the in born abilities to understand one’s native language. It’s more about relying on other people’s standards and taking the (so called) reality for granted.

And throwing the spiral, well, i was to maliciously ask you whether you can “twist a screw” but instead of that tell me what you mean – a freefall move or a canopy steering manoeuvre? ;)


Unformed; i don’t agree that people who don’t “satisfy their rushes foir adrenaline are the boring people of the world”. The fact that someone it a thrill seeker doesn’t make him any better than others. It’s all about neurochemistry. There is an enzyme (i’m not sure what’s its name in English) which regulates the level of dopamine in the limbic system. The less the enzyme the more dopamine and the more you feel the need to do risky things. Simple as that. So it’s not your virtue to be a skydiver. It’s something you have no control over.

I know a lot of people who’d never jump out of the plain, and who are very interesting. Some of them are fit and some of them are completely not the physical type. Apart from sports there are also intellectual activities – quite static book reading, studying, movie watching, theatre going, writing, composing and so on. They aren’t any worse than skydiving.

I can’t see anything in the definition of beauty you quoted that would explain why a woman with scares on her face, tattooed moustache or mutilated feet is to be regarded beautiful. Unless of course you want to call beautiful everything that is “orginal”, “effective” and “gives pleasure to the mind”. But then a body massacred by an explosion also should fit this cathegory. Now i’m asking you, does it? :/

My proposition of the suicide definition, or it’s reinterpretation if you like, is:

“Deliberate involving of onself in an action and/ or exposing oneself to a phenomenon that can cause death and actually dying from it.”

I wrote about it before. It’d be much easier if you read the whole thread before posting in it.

Now let’s consider the implications of what you wrote; if suicide does not necessarily involve the desire to die, then parachuting perfectly fits that concept. A parachuter does not (consiously) want to die. Yet he deliberately and voluntorily involves into an activity that in the end can kill him. And parachuting DOES kill. All the time the parachuter is perfectly aware of the danger and he knows he can die. Nobody kicks him out of the plain. He exites himsef and (if we put the subconsious factor aside for a while) out of his own free will. Ergo – if he dies it’s suicide. What Was To Be Proved.

Regards,

ying.

[jeiber 0]

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Jeiber; thanks for complimenting my poor English.

Perhaps I should be complimenting your dedication to learning the English language. The words you're using are atypical in day to day conversation. This leads me to believe that you're spending alot of time thumbing through a thesaurus and/or dictionary. More power to you.

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I used it to show the nature of your attack on me.

It wasn't an attack, it was a joke... big difference.

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If Jeiber be bad it’s good, if ying be bad it’s very not good? ;)

That's right, it's good to be bad! (unless you're Ying). Seriously though, it's clear you spent a significant amount of time organizing your thoughts, and trying to present a sound argument devoid of emotion. That's why seeing sarcasm mixed with such sophisticated grammer strikes me as humorous (or humerous, take your pick! )

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And throwing the spiral, well, i was to maliciously ask you whether you can “twist a screw” but instead of that tell me what you mean – a freefall move or a canopy steering manoeuvre? ;)

Don't worry about not being able to throw a spiral - it's not important anyway.

I honestly haven't even read most of your post Ying, nor am I going to. Alas, you captured my attention with what I thought was going to be an intellectual conversation.

ADD has kicked in, and I'm bored now, sorry....

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[rehmwa 2]

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Maggotry; so you ..... What Was To Be Proved.

Regards,

ying.

Could you summarize that to 2 lines or less? thanks
gotta go

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ying 0]

Jeiber; thanks again for all compliments. My last post is quite long indeed. It was orginally longer - i made some serious cuts. However i think the part adressed to you (it starts with your name) shouldn't take more than two minutes to read. If what i wrote cannot be called an attempt of sustaining an intellectual conversation with you, then could you possibly tell me how you would define an intellectual converstaion and what i did wrong? ;)

Remwha; sure, the short version is: parachuting = suicide. Happy? ;)

Regards,

ying.

[justinb138 0]

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Remwha; looks like the short attention span syndrome to me. You'd probably prefer this forum to be all based on pictures :/

You'd better be careful with your insults,you might do us all a favor and get yourself banned.

[ying 0]

justinb138; well, perhaps you're right. I shouldn't have written that. Sorry. But then i'm just an imperfect human ;)

[christelsabine 1]

You'd probably prefer this forum to be all based on pictures :/

[rehmwa 2]

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Remwha; sure, the short version is: parachuting = suicide. Happy? ;)

thanks - big help

frankly, self congratulatory, mental masturbatorial exercises like this can be a lot of fun with people interested in the exercise. But just doing on-line IQ tests can blow your day just as fast.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[unformed 0]

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Remwha; sure, the short version is: parachuting = suicide. Happy? ;)

thanks - big help

frankly, self congratulatory, mental masturbatorial exercises like this can be a lot of fun with people interested in the exercise. But just doing on-line IQ tests can blow your day just as fast.

I second that. I'm not getting dragged even more into this crap. This discussion is about as useful as a condom is to a nun.

This ad space for sale.

[rehmwa 2]

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This discussion is about as useful as a condom is to a nun.

It keeps the wick from scratching.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jeiber 0]

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If what i wrote cannot be called an attempt of sustaining an intellectual conversation with you, then could you possibly tell me how you would define an intellectual converstaion and what i did wrong? ;)

Your whole argument is based on the definition of suicide, but you insist that we can't really use the commonly understood meaning of words in our argument. Without a common 'protocol', we don't have an effective method of communication.

Start another thread with a better topic, and you'll probably get more bites.

'Cat Hunting' - now THAT'S and intellectually stimulating conversation!

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[ying 0]

Remwha; i do agree – stating my written expression is crap was particularly self-congratulatory. Have you ever heard the famous “I THINK THREREFORE I AM” quote? Guess you haven’t. No matter how deeply you abhore thinking and other forms of intellectual activity, be informed that this what you scornfully call intellectual MASTURBATION is in fact one of the features which makes humans differnt from animals. But i’m not going to waist my time trying in vain to convert you to thinking. Let me just tell you that if we assume your logic then skydiving will also be reduced from a great romantic sport to mere MASTURBATION. Why? Because it’s like pushing the pleasure button over and over again. I’d even say that skydiving reminds MASTURBATION more than polemicizing becuse skydiving’s main purpose is adrenalinal pleasure while polemic stimulates intellectual development and perfecting the word based means of communication which is generally quite useful as far as functioning in a society is concerned. If you’re not interested in this thread then simply DON’T read it. And by the way, why do you think MASTURBATION is a negative thing? Don’t you know that, as Woody Allen put it, MASTURBATION is making love to someone whom you truly love? ;) And one last question; what are the last 10 books you’ve read?


Jeiber; although communicational errors do occur frequently, communication IS possible. If one’s aware of the language’s imperfections, it becomes even easier. The fact that we shouldn’t take all simplified dictionary definitions for granted does not make the discussion impossible. To tell the truth, it’s where the discussion really begins. I’m affraid that saying we can’t continue our polemic is due to your lack of convincing arguments against what i wrote.


Unformed; oh, i see, this thread is crap because you haven’t managed to defeat me in discussion and you have nothing more to say? Why don’t you honestly admit that you are unable to prove that parachuters are not suicidal? Why don’t you admit that we can’t simply sit back, relax and completely trust all the dictionary definitions? Be a man!

Regards,

ying.

[unformed 0]

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Unformed; oh, i see, this thread is crap because you haven’t managed to defeat me in discussion and you have nothing more to say? Why don’t you honestly admit that you are unable to prove that parachuters are not suicidal? Why don’t you admit that we can’t simply sit back, relax and completely trust all the dictionary definitions? Be a man!

Are you fucking shitting me? You can't go about redefining the English language so your argument fits. I'm not debating anymore because it's like speaking to a brick wall, and I am on the verge of making posts that would be considered personal attacks. As I refuse to not go down that route, this ends it.

This ad space for sale.

[ying 0]

Suit yourself. But this means i've WON, MWAHAHHAHA! :) And by the way, it's quite weird that being a skydiver who is able to control his self-preservation instinct and jump out of a plain, you get impacient becuse of a few words :/

[justinb138 0]

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Suit yourself. But this means i've WON,

Grow up, this isn't a competition.

[ying 0]

Maybe it's not a competition but it surely is a duel. The word "polemicist" comes from the Greek "polemistes" which means a "warrior".

[mr2mk1g 10]

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you are unable to prove that parachuters are not suicidal?

I'm not. There you are Unformed, Job done.

[DZJ 0]

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Maybe it's not a competition but it surely is a duel. The word "polemicist" comes from the Greek "polemistes" which means a "warrior".

Actually, the Greek root is polemikos, hostile, from polemos, war, and a warrior is a not a duellist.

[jeiber 0]

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Actually, the Greek root is polemikos, hostile, from polemos, war, and a warrior is a not a duellist.

Yes, but you're forgetting, Ying is allowed to redefine words. What do Greek scholars know anyway? Ying can tell them what they REALLY meant when they developed the language...

Fine Ying, you win. You're a legend in your own mind. Let's end this conversation before someone gives you a noogie, or worse yet, a swirlie... and no, neither of those has anything to do with being able to throw a spiral!

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[Shotgun 1]

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But this means i've WON, MWAHAHHAHA!

People actually WIN in speaker's corner??? Cool, what do you get, like a t-shirt or something???

[MC208B 0]

Yep, me too Rebecca, same one every time

[MC208B 0]

I thought that Ying (the winner) should get a big toll house cookie!

[Skyrad 0]

I can't belive this thread is still going! Its been reserected more times than Rod Stewart!!!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca