Banda Aceh - Interesting Political Views

[bertusgeert 1]

I realize this might get moved to speakers corner, but my intentions are not to create a political thread. I simply want to communicate how significant the earthquake can be in world history. If you all decide to argue politically/religiously, go ahead, the thread is now in your hands.

My mum found this, and I thought it was very insightful.



THE MIRACLE OF BANDA ACEH
Posted on 01/01/2005 7:23:40 AM PST by Prospero




"Words fail," they say, and they do, they do indeed.


Having just finished a first-stage restoration of my father's 45 year-old home movies, which included scenes of Djakarta, where our family briefly lived, I've always felt a sub vocal kinship with Indonesia and her millions.


They say I spoke Bhasha, the Malay tongue spoken there, and would translate for my parents instructions for the house servants, who were probably also spies for the Junta, the Communists, or both. Perhaps I dream in that language, occasionally, but this week I retreated into a walking nightmare, early on after the first indications that the Banda Aceh Christmas Earthquake of 2004 had swamped the parameter of the east Indian Ocean, strongly hinting at what the world would find when the northern end of Sumatra was finally heard from.


In America, for days, we could watch a handful of the same "amateur videos," from Phuket and Sri Lanka, and the horror there was bad enough. The only such video I've seen of the torrent that scraped over Banda Aceh, however, appears to have taken almost a week to make it to the Internet. I have yet to see it's like on television. It makes what happed to the beaches in Thailand and Sri Lanka look like a creek over running its banks after a brief summer storm.


Let's just say, what happened to the sex tourism spots and coasts and more distant islands elsewhere is nothing in comparison to the fate of Banda Aceh and the western shore of Sumatra. Since so many can't find the words, here are a thousand of them:

PICTURE WAS INSERTED HERE - SEE BELOW

Now, if you had told me a week ago that an American Marine expeditionary force would be in Banda Aceh on New Years Day, my first reaction would have been that the President had decided upon a bold and unexpected strike in the War on Terror, jumping ahead on the timeline of that effort's multi-generational strategy. I might have thought it was a bold and necessary move, and I would have believed you if you had said they had located and captured Osama Bin Laden there.


As it was, in our shock, probing in from the parameter toward the epicenter of the Banda Aceh Earthquake, only a few have considered whether the hand of the Almighty reached out and sliced off a decade from what still promises to be a protracted conflict with Islamo-Fascism.


Consider that Indonesia is largely a Muslim country with a population similar to that of the United States, and developments there have been "the elephant in the living room" few wanted to consider as we cleaned out Islamo-Fascist terror nests in Iraq, Afghanistan and the southern Philippines.


Banda Aceh was, until a week ago, home of a Taliban-like, semi-autonomous government that had succeeded in establishing the Sharhia Islamic law, though the central government on Java nominally "allowed" this legal code on a "separate but equal" basis, for Muslims only. That was in 2002, and it was hoped the restive Islamo-Fascist insurgents who have fought for independence from Djakarta for more than twenty years would be satisfied. The locals had even just recently succeeded in putting into place, shall we say, "heavy legal penalties" for anyone who tried to prosthletize a citizen of Greater Islam... meaning Christians, of course.

Not a week passes without stories emerging from Indonesia of an on-going persecution of its Christian minorities, and the central governments failure to put a stop to it, especially the further one travels further from Djakarta to the myriad islands of the Indonesian archipelago. Remember the bombing of the nightclub in Denpasar on Bali, the only refuge for Hindus in Indonesia? The Australians haven't.


When he was forced to leave Sudan, Osama Bin Laden considered moving to Yemen, Afghanistan and Banda Aceh. He decided upon Afghanistan, of course, and may still be holed up there, or on the border with Pakistan, or under the nervous refuge of the Mullah regime of Iran. In fact, the Grand Mosque in Banda Aceh is right up there with Karbala, Qom, Medina and Mecca in everyone's top ten list of Muslim "holy places."


Today, it's an open air morgue, and if they find Osama among the dead there, I wouldn't be a bit surprised.


Sooner or later, we were going to have to deal with Indonesia, in general, and Aceh in particular. And things weren't looking too good.

Things are looking up.


Consider that the Christian Reformation, perhaps even the American Republic, has roots in the Black Death of 1349. People faced with such tragedy question their Worldview, abandon or are, at least, forced to examine their beliefs and habits, and the rebirth of Philosophy and the scientific method in the West began again in the centuries immediately after the plagues of the 14th Christian Century. They certainly questioned the magic of their priests and closely examined the "mysteries," resulting in a rebirth of Bible study that continues to this day. Unquestioned obedience to Rome ended with the Black Plague, and the True Belief of many a young muslim, of their Imams, may come to an end in the aftermath of the Christmas Earthquake.


Now, some might think I'm suggesting the God of Abraham did an angry thing of "biblical proportions" when He decided to shake Sumatra, and that he's on our side, loves George W. Bush, answered the humble prayers of the persecuted, etc., etc. But, this natural tragedy doesn't strike me that way at all. You won't find me cheering the deaths of a million people on Sumatra, and particularly in Aceh.


"Rather fear," I would think, betting on the "beginning of wisdom" might be the best response to this Catastrophe.


But... after you've digested the indigestible scope of the Christmas Earthquake, consider what you might have thought if Kabul under the Taliban had been wiped off the face of the Earth a week or so before our first boots hit the ground there after the destruction of the World Trade Center.


What has happened in Banda Aceh is no less miraculous and undreamed of a possibility, and, at this hour, American Marines are handing out water and food to the pitiable handful who escaped the 20 foot high, hundred mile wide river that swept over their island, again, making what happened in Thailand and Sri Lanka look like a simple storm surge in comparison. The Epicenter of fierce hatred, a sanctuary of Islamo-fascism is no more, as though Falluja had been hit with several hydrogen bombs.

Now you see them, now you don't.


Some of those locals, who have waited for almost a week for food and water, helping off-load our nation's charity are wearing T-Shirts with the image of Osama on them.


We certainly didn't cause this tragedy, but we'd be fools not to take advantage of the strategic miracle God has handed to us.

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[WrongWay 0]

How can anyone see anything positive about such a horrible tragedy? An advantage in war? Some people are obviously blinded by their own desire for their country to be "favored by God".

This tragedy is NO BLESSING TO ANYONE. It has nothing to do with karma or divine justice or whatever you want to call it. To call it a "strategic miracle" is not only a war mongers excuse, but it is a mockery of morality to even think such a thing.

Now take this shit to Speaker's Corner where it belongs.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Rebecca 0]

Wow. I hadn't really thought of it in those terms - just in terms of the lives lost. If they do dig up known terrorists, I would consider it a bit of silver lining to this unbelievable catastrophy.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[JohnRich 4]

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We certainly didn't cause this tragedy, but we'd be fools not to take advantage of the strategic miracle God has handed to us.

You think god killed 150,000 people just so America could have a "strategic" opportunity?

Whoa, that's one mean dude.

[VectorBoy 0]

You think god killed 150,000 people just so America could have a "strategic" opportunity?

Whoa, that's one mean dude.

[bertusgeert 1]

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We certainly didn't cause this tragedy, but we'd be fools not to take advantage of the strategic miracle God has handed to us.

You think god killed 150,000 people just so America could have a "strategic" opportunity?

Whoa, that's one mean dude.

I agree that you could take it that way. Personally I don't. I dont think he meant that God did it JUST so that America will prevail. It is simply a side effect.

And why not? Why can there not be any good to come out of a bad situation? It is certainly 100% accurate to say that America is better off in some way because of this tragedy. That does not ignore all the lives lost, injuries obtained, money spent and buildings wrecked, that happened, but America still has gained from the event.

What a great opportunity for America to go show the world what a great people you all are!! To walk amongst the muslims that hates your guts and give them water and food! certainly this will have an effect on the average affected individual's opinion of the greatest country in the world!


(Politically this country is sometimes extremely arrogant. We all know that, and that, combined with some other reasons is why the world hates the U.S. But after I moved here and met you all, I learned the truth. The average American is VERY caring and loving. - When I did my shopping at Krogers the other day, and they annnounced that you can simply add your donation to your shopping, it showed me what America truly is. Even though the average American cannot tell you where Sri Lanka or Banda Aceh is, they care about those individuals. It took me one step closer to wanting to belong here.

And I'm sorry, I probaly should just have just done it in the first place, but you can now take this "shit" to speakers corner!

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[diverdriver 5]

Isn't that attached picture from another disaster than this tsunami? Hmmmm....oooh snoooo-ooopes!

edit: clicketty linky link

[JohnRich 4]

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I dont think he meant that God did it JUST so that America will prevail. It is simply a side effect.

The million dollar question: Why did god do it? For what possible good reason could god have killed these 150,000 people?

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What a great opportunity for America to go show the world what a great people you all are!! To walk amongst the muslims that hates your guts and give them water and food!

The pessimist in me, when it comes to extremist Muslims, says that they'll still hate us anyway, no matter how much we try and help them in their time of need. When it's all over, and they're back on their feet, they'll still want to kill us.

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after I moved here and met you all, I learned the truth. The average American is VERY caring and loving.

Yes, but they'll never learn that, and wouldn't care if they did. As long as we don't turn our lives over to their leaders and their brand of religion, they'll still want to kill us.

Have a nice day.

[bertusgeert 1]

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The million dollar question: Why did god do it? For what possible good reason could god have killed these 150,000 people?

Do you think God does things for one reason? There is most likely a myriad of reasons that God does ANYTHING. This goes from anything like someone realizing God's awesome power (several personal accounts which I have read) to political events leading up to the end of the world. When something as serious as that happens and many people lose friends and relatives, you ask a lot of questions, and this is a way in which God could ultimately lead people to him. He could also have decided that now is the time for some of his people to come to him, and that others had enough time to choose him and didn't. It's God's world and we live here by grace. We really have no concept or clue what God's idea or plan or reasons are. But we all know that.

So... your question is then more directed at the deaths overall, wondering why God could possibly kill a 150, 000 people just like that. He has many times before though, we simply didn't see the tragedy constantly on televisions and in the newspapers. Many people die all over, and we dont ask why. No one cares about the almost constant civil wars in Africa where thousands die, children and women as well. The point is it happens every day, people die, we don't know why. It is God's decision, and we should take it as that. We are only insignificant humans. Anyways....

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The pessimist in me, when it comes to extremist Muslims, says that they'll still hate us anyway, no matter how much we try and help them in their time of need. When it's all over, and they're back on their feet, they'll still want to kill us.

You know what, I think your right to some extent. But it cannot be ignored by the rest of the world, and even those countries will remember that our tropps rationed their water to keep them alive.

You have a better day sir!

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[Remster 30]

Nothing wrong with this thread, but off the SC it goes!

Remster

[storm1977 0]

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Isn't that attached picture from another disaster than this tsunami? Hmmmm....oooh snoooo-ooopes!

edit: clicketty linky link

Snopes said that picture is real and from the Indian ocean tsunami. Notice the green dot depicting true under the caption below.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/tsunami/tsunami.asp#tsunami1

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[JohnRich 4]

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it happens every day, people die, we don't know why. It is God's decision, and we should take it as that.

Well, if god is all-powerful as he is claimed to be, then he should step-in and prevent these major tragedies, as well as all the little ones that take loved ones away from their families.

And if he's not all-powerful, and doesn't really have any control over anything, then what is the point in worshiping him?

If he's intentionally taking all these lives, then he's a mean sum-beech - there should be enough souls in heaven already to take care of whatever business he has for them. He shouldn't yank souls away from their earthly families, where people need them.

And why should anyone worship a man who causes, or does nothing to prevent, so much mayhem, despair and grief?

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We are only insignificant humans.

Why should we worship someone who considers our lives "insignificant"? I thought that he "knows every sparrow that falls to the ground"? So you're saying that god knows we're all being killed off in mass numbers, but doesn't care enough to do anything about it? That sounds more like the Devil to me...

[dorbie 0]

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it happens every day, people die, we don't know why. It is God's decision, and we should take it as that.

Well, if god is all-powerful as he is claimed to be, then he should step-in and prevent these major tragedies, as well as all the little ones that take loved ones away from their families.

And if he's not all-powerful, and doesn't really have any control over anything, then what is the point in worshiping him?

If he's intentionally taking all these lives, then he's a mean sum-beech - there should be enough souls in heaven already to take care of whatever business he has for them. He shouldn't yank souls away from their earthly families, where people need them.

And why should anyone worship a man who causes, or does nothing to prevent, so much mayhem, despair and grief?

Ah, wiser than God now are we?

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[dorbie 0]

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Why should we worship someone who considers our lives "insignificant"? I thought that he "knows every sparrow that falls to the ground"? So you're saying that god knows we're all being killed off in mass numbers, but doesn't care enough to do anything about it? That sounds more like the Devil to me...

P.S. if you believe there is a purpose to life, then ask yourself why are we here? Just to have fun and jump out of planes etc?

Considering the absolute certainty that we all die and that on any given day a great number of us die in a never ending process, railing a gainst an omnipotent being for a lot of people dying at once is vaguely ridiculous.

[crozby 0]

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The million dollar question: Why did god do it? For what possible good reason could god have killed these 150,000 people?

It wasn't God, it was the tooth fairy. She came to me in a vision and said so when i was squeezing one out on the can earlier.

[JohnRich 4]

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Ah, wiser than God now are we?

Thank you for that brilliant explanation of god's role in this tragedy.

[JohnRich 4]

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It wasn't God, it was the tooth fairy. She came to me in a vision...

No, no... it was Ganesha, that god from India that is half-man and half-elephant. Since that god is a highly popular one in that area, perhaps all those victims did something to piss him off.

Oh, but wait, that would make him a *vindictive* god, and gods aren't supposed to be like that - they should understand our flaws and love us anyway...

I'm so confused. So many gods, so little time.

[dorbie 0]

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Ah, wiser than God now are we?

Thank you for that brilliant explanation of god's role in this tragedy.

Puny mortal.

I'll explain God's role in this tragedy when you explain why you stopped beating your wife.

[JohnRich 4]

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I'll explain God's role in this tragedy when you explain why you stopped beating your wife.

Are you sure you want to compare god's actions to those of a wife-beater?

[dorbie 0]

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I'll explain God's role in this tragedy when you explain why you stopped beating your wife.

Are you sure you want to compare god's actions to those of a wife-beater?

Surely you understand my point without explanation.

[jakee 1,490]

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Ah, wiser than God now are we?

Infinitely, if a non existent being can be assumed to have an IQ of 0.

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P.S. if you believe there is a purpose to life, then ask yourself why are we here? Just to have fun and jump out of planes etc?

Yes. Great, isn't it

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[crozby 0]

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Are you sure you want to compare god's actions to those of a wife-beater?

ok, its really late here and i'm probably being really slow and dumb, but i dont get understand.

[bertusgeert 1]

Although it is late, I have an overworked brain and it is past my bedtime, I will quickly try to reply. Please do not take the accusations contained within personally, see it rather as a frustration against the incomprehension of the general public of this "christian" country.

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Well, if god is all-powerful as he is claimed to be, then he should step-in and prevent these major tragedies, as well as all the little ones that take loved ones away from their families.

This is probably THE most argued argument against Christianity. People struggle to see why the harshness of this world is allowed by a God they are told is loving. But God is a God of Wrath just as much as a God of Love. The fact of the matter is this.

We were given a choice by God, through our representatives, Adam and Eve. They chose not to obey God, and suffered the consequences. We may argue that we never had a chance to represent ourselves, but think about that for a second. A man created by God turns against him, what will a man do that is not created by God. You would have done much worse, and so would I. If you want to argue, try not to sin for a day first, then come back to me. You comitted an act against a loving God that gave you one rule to live by, and now we suffer the consequences that manifests itself everyday in pain, hurt, and sadly, death.

It is simple, so don't go around accusing God when you are the one in the wrong.

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And if he's not all-powerful, and doesn't really have any control over anything, then what is the point in worshiping him?

I agree. Deism (the belief that God created this and left it) does not make much sense.

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If he's intentionally taking all these lives, then he's a mean sum-beech

As stated earlier, God is also a God of Wrath. We have absolutely no concept of his plans, but through what we can learn through the Bible, if we choose him he will take care of you. Even if that is to kill you and bring you to heaven.
And if this is so hard to comprehend, why did you not yell in outrage when you heard about the story of the ark? Why now? People die, whether that be today alone or tomorrow in a natural disaster, people die. YOU CHOSE to die.

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there should be enough souls in heaven already to take care of whatever business he has for them. He shouldn't yank souls away from their earthly families, where people need them.

A massive misconception taught by an unbelieving sacriligious culture. And I thought my mum was stupid when she told us to turn off the Simpsons when they made these sacriligous comments.

God created heaven so that we can enjoy his presence without the hindrance of Satan. We can enjoy eternity with God, and worship him forever.

God created us to worship him, not like slaves, but as fulfilled joyous souls. As we often realize, the joy lies in the satisfaction of doing the work rather than the benefits gained. It is hard to explain why, and in the same way we are satisfied spiritually to an incomprehensible level when we will finally praise God as it was meant to be.

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And why should anyone worship a man who causes, or does nothing to prevent, so much mayhem, despair and grief?

As stated earlier, YOU chose to die, we have no idea what God's plan is, but it is for the better if you are n the right side. God offers a way out of the suffering, mayhem dispair and grief. You chose all these things against God's will, and he gave you ANOTHER chance.

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Why should we worship someone who considers our lives "insignificant"? I thought that he "knows every sparrow that falls to the ground"? So you're saying that god knows we're all being killed off in mass numbers, but doesn't care enough to do anything about it? That sounds more like the Devil to me...

Let me give you an idea.

We, as in us, the awesome fantabulastic human race, took thousands of years to explore our own planet. We could only draw a global map somewhere in the last 150 or so years. (took us what, 4000 years to get to this point?) Now we think we have discovered all, and that if we could conquer the oceans and the mountains we win. We have no idea. We think everest is big. We think the empty voids of the Sahara and the Pacific is big. oh man....


the earth is one of 9 planets in our Solar system. (Jupiter is what, something like 76times the size of earth. We think that is big...oh man....))

Our solar system is one of 100 BILLION in our galaxy, the Milkyway. There are another 100BILLION stars beside our sun, only in out galaxy.

Our galaxy is one of the two largest out of THIRTY galxies in the local group.

Our local group lies on the outskirts of the local supercluster.

Our supercluster FADES into the background of the universe.

the point is, we have NO IDEA about scale. What we think is big is incredibly small. John, tell me now that we are not insignificant.

BUT!

God chose to love us and give us the opportunity to be with Him. THerefore he does not consider us insignificant, even thought we are, without a doubt, insignificant.

In any case, I am now about ready to slam my head into the table as I fall asleep. Then I'll wake up tomorrow and realize how much I wrote and in how mnay fewer words I could have said it...oh well....

and as always, hope you have a good insignificant day.

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[JohnRich 4]

Thank you for stepping up to the plate and trying to address all of those questions (instead of avoiding the answers, like someone else). Good job. That doesn't mean I buy your answers, but you did a good job.

Yes, we are all insignificant on the scale of the galaxy. But not to our families. And lives shouldn't be taken prematurely by a vindictive punishing god, if for no other reason, because of the unnecessary grief it causes their family and friends. There should be no need in heaven, more important than the need of family for their loved ones here on earth.

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But God is a God of Wrath just as much as a God of Love.

I have a problem with this one too. You often hear the phrase "fear god". Well, he's supposed to love me, so why should I fear him? My Mom loves me, and I don't fear her. And why should I go through life living in fear - that's no kind of loving life style. This sounds more like a means of societal control, like the Taliban would practice - using fear as a means of controlling the populace. They might force them to comply with their wishes by beating them with a stick, but that doesn't mean that the beaten have bought the ideology. I'm not going to worship someone who threatens me with fire and brimstone, just because I don't follow his every word. Instead, that is someone to be scorned.

[jakee 1,490]

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And lives shouldn't be taken prematurely by a vindictive punishing god, if for no other reason, because of the unnecessary grief it causes their family and friends.

On the flip side, a true believer should feel no grief whatsoever at the death of a friend. If the classical definition of heaven was true (eternity of happiness) this life and what happens in it is completely irrelevent, been and gone in the blink of an eye.
People should be queing up to be taken by an act of god.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?