Gawain 0 #26 January 16, 2005 QuoteHave ben reading alot lately about how bad the military is and how we should not be in iraq and alot more negative things. Just wanted to say thanks for serving....you are all great and I admire what you do. Thanks. I think the press has pushed it a bit out of proportion though. The "bad" stuff making the press is a lot of NG and Reserve issues. Plainly, these people knew they could be deployed, many never thought they would. Now that they are, there is a lot of (trying to be polite) "talk" about it. The Brigade I'm in is brand new. I didn't even have a weapon assigned to me until last week. Even then, the weapon will need to have upgrades made to it (collapsable buttstock, shorter barrel, etc). We're having components supplied to us, sometimes one piece at a time. It's chaotic, but coming together. I'm not saying it's perfect, but if people haven't picked up yet to heavily question the content of the mainstream press (even Fox) in the wake of Rather's BS report (getting him ousted, and four other execs fired), then all I can suggest is heavily diversify your sources. From the very beginning of this campaign, it was communicated that this would be long, tough experience. Sacrifices would be made by many Americans. I've yet to meet a single person here that said they wouldn't do their part if called upon again (and our division will be later this year, en masse).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #27 January 16, 2005 QuoteI'm not saying it's perfect, but if people haven't picked up yet to heavily question the content of the mainstream press (even Fox) in the wake of Rather's BS report (getting him ousted, and four other execs fired), then all I can suggest is heavily diversify your sources. you can say that again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tantalum 0 #28 January 16, 2005 They didn't die fighting for a Republic that was under attack. They didn't die defending you, me, or our families. They died for Exxon, Haliburton, Cheney, Bush...and a few other people and corporations who stand to make billions from this war. They died for a lie, the lie of WMDs, the lie of Iraq sponsoring terrorism. And thus they died in vain...they did NOT die for our country. Just as in the Matrix: you can take the red pill or the blue pill; one will wake you up, with the other you go on to believe whatever you want to believe! QuoteQuoteAll the 1,300+ military personnel who have died, have died in vain: Edited because first post was a bit rough... But, you have no right IMHO to say that those people died in vain, that's pretty messed up actually.. They died fighting for their country, whether you agree with why they were fighting or not.. That is NOT in vain no matter how you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
osuskydiver 0 #29 January 16, 2005 QuoteHowever, what if there was war and nobody showed up (or refused to show up)? Really curious as to your response. Don't we all need to take personal responsibilities (rather than delegating them?). If there is a Fire, a fireman will be there If there is a Crime, A policeman will be there If there is an injury, a paramedic will be there If there is a fight, a SOLDIER WILL BE THERE. We know the risks when we enlist, we don't enlist to pick our battles or pick who we fight for. We will fight for everyone in the US, I don;t care who, we will also fight for those being oppresed in other countries, because that is what soldiers do! By the time you read this you have already read it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tantalum 0 #30 January 17, 2005 What if the oppressed don't want to be liberated? See you, hopefully, in Israel next time, to free the Palestinians!!!! QuoteQuoteHowever, what if there was war and nobody showed up (or refused to show up)? Really curious as to your response. Don't we all need to take personal responsibilities (rather than delegating them?). If there is a Fire, a fireman will be there If there is a Crime, A policeman will be there If there is an injury, a paramedic will be there If there is a fight, a SOLDIER WILL BE THERE. We know the risks when we enlist, we don't enlist to pick our battles or pick who we fight for. We will fight for everyone in the US, I don;t care who, we will also fight for those being oppresed in other countries, because that is what soldiers do! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #31 January 17, 2005 Quote They didn't die fighting for a Republic that was under attack. They didn't die defending you, me, or our families. why don't you ask a few that are there how they feel, I think they have a better grasp of why they are there than you. why don't you list your info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #32 January 17, 2005 Quote They didn't die fighting for a Republic that was under attack. They didn't die defending you, me, or our families. They are free. Free from the thug that stole from them and lied to them till he died. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #33 January 17, 2005 At the very begining, soldiers were told that they were fighting to protect the U.S from a nuclear, chemical or biological attack fom Irak, so knowing just that, 1000+ U.S soldiers lost their lives (and a whole lot of Irakis) Now, those WMD has not been found and that threat has proven to be non-existant. Those soldiers did indeed die in vain. It doesn´t matter that now Bush tries to change the reason for this invasion, they thought there was WMD and there was not. I don´t get why people gets offended at this idea, it is not the soldiers fault, but of those who sent them to war. IMO, rather than justify no-matter-what your military actions, go and ask responsabilities to those who have screw up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #34 January 17, 2005 We think your answer to this "no name, no one, no skydiver, no info person, Mr., Ms., Sir, Prince, King, or whoever he/she thinks they are, was great. Love you. Congras on your engagement. Love Lee and Jim West Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #35 January 17, 2005 Quote At the very begining, soldiers were told that they were fighting to protect the U.S from a nuclear, chemical or biological attack fom Irak based on bad intel but intel from a lot of sources, some even SH's closest people. As a group we came in and deposed SH most have stayed to help the iraqi's form a gov't, QuoteThose soldiers did indeed die in vain. have you talked daily to the soldiers on the ground daily? I have. I dare say most would not agree with you, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vmsfreaky1 0 #36 January 17, 2005 Quoteyou have no right IMHO to say that those people died in vain, that's pretty messed up actually.. They died fighting for their country, whether you agree with why they were fighting or not I'm afraid they did die in vain, the vain attempt of your government to quell those pesky muslims in I-rack. Why are americans so damn patriotic? it beggars beleif that I keep reading americans so blindly and faithfully beleive in what they are doing, you dont even question your government, It's just seems so crazy to me, obviously its in your daft culture. Good luck! coz if you fuck up, then the whole world has to wear it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hipwrddude 0 #37 January 17, 2005 So you’re saying my friends died in vain. I hear what you’re saying and I hope you find a better way. The worst argument against policy in Iraq is to say our service men and women “died in vain.” Furthermore, by saying they died in vain implies that you wanted them to die, or wanted them to die for a policy you didn’t agree with or wanted to fail. Whether that was your intention or not, belittling their sacrifice to their country by calling their passing “in vain” for “Bush,” “et al.,” and the “war profiteers” is a sad argument for critical dissent. Why not attack the policy makers? The military is a tool of politics. Yes, democracy is framed on the premise that criticism of the government improves the quality of decision making. But why attack the solemn duty of our service personnel? Why say that refusing orders for another tour of duty is right? Atomic element 73, Tantalum, what branch of the service did you serve and what units did you command? I don’t agree with the reasons we invaded Iraq either. But we must succeed in democratizing Iraq, pacifying Afghanistan and making good out of bad situations. As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis once observed, "courage is the secret of liberty." As a former serviceman whose father’s father, etc., served in every conflict from WWI to the present, I would say that all service personnel have a deep sense of pride, honor and connection with those who served before us and those who serve now and into the future. I feel we all must show them the utmost respect for preserving our liberty and leisure. Showing their sacrifice to be anything other then honorable is not only unpatriotic, but disrespectful too. You're always the starter in your own life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,307 #38 January 17, 2005 Me too.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #39 January 17, 2005 What your CIC thinks about all this: QuotePresident George W Bush has said his re-election has vindicated his administration's policy on Iraq. Mr Bush said there was no need to hold any of his officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgements in pre-war planning or managing the aftermath. In an interview in Sunday's Washington Post he said that his re-election was an "accountability moment". The publication of the interview comes as Mr Bush prepares for the start of his second term on Thursday. The newspaper asked Mr Bush why no-one had been held responsible for wrong information about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or mistakes made after the US-led war. "Well, we had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 election," he replied. "And the American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and they chose me, for which I'm grateful." On Wednesday, intelligence officials confirmed that the US had stopped searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4178655.stm) Sure there are brave guys and girls in Iraq. It's just a fucking traversty that so many THOUSANDS of them are returning home in boxes or minus eyes and arms and legs for this shit-head. Where does patriotism end and common sense begin? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #40 January 17, 2005 QuoteWhy are americans so damn patriotic? Because even our country is base on freedom, opportunity, justice and sacrifice. Why is this so hard to understand. Quote I keep reading americans so blindly and faithfully beleive in what they are doing, you dont even question your government there are plenty that do, however even they do not believe in the cause that we went in for, have the understand just pulling out is not the right thing to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #41 January 17, 2005 Quote...your daft culture. If you want to discuss the things you personally dislike about American culture, or you want to talk about various parts of it, go for it. If you just want to generally label an entirely cultural group daft, I'd advise against it. If you're thinking of trying to label specific individuals posting in this forum that way...well, please don't.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #42 January 17, 2005 Quote...both you and I know that you are as gay as "Richard Simmons". I don't know Ted, but I'm about to have a PM exchange with him regarding this comment. Consider this your only warning.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #43 January 17, 2005 QuoteQuote At the very begining, soldiers were told that they were fighting to protect the U.S from a nuclear, chemical or biological attack fom Irak based on bad intel but intel from a lot of sources, some even SH's closest people. As a group we came in and deposed SH most have stayed to help the iraqi's form a gov't, QuoteThose soldiers did indeed die in vain. have you talked daily to the soldiers on the ground daily? I have. I dare say most would not agree with you, Bill apparently there are people in here that got FIRST hand information on what went on or goes on in the SOP's anr rules of engagement, although they do not belong to any branch of any service in any country...and most likely never will. It is funny to hear them voice "expert" opinions. Diverdiver and those expressing support and solidarity, thanks."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #44 January 17, 2005 Thank You for your support. I will be heading back for tour 3 in the fall. During tour 1 and 2 I was cheared in the streets by the Iraqi people who had wanted a change, but we the collective world did not listen or help until now. To others in the thread; I will gladly stand on the wall or in the sand and defend the freedoms of all men and women in this country and others, it is your right as a human to be able to live and speak free. But please, as a citizen of any country do not ask me to abandon my comrads who relly on me to cover there back while in our defense! Matthew Cline SFC, USA Over 18 years of service and many deployments.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greene 0 #45 January 17, 2005 Thank you! We admire you and all the troops deployed. Not only do we admire you all, we love you! Come home safely to your family. God speed. Jim and Lee West Skydive Greene County PS. Come home and you have free skydives in Xenia, Ohio forever. Just our way of saying thank you very much. For all thinking that we know him, no, we do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #46 January 17, 2005 QuoteBill apparently there are people in here that got FIRST hand information on what went on or goes on in the SOP's and rules of engagement, although they do not belong to any branch of any service in any country...and most likely never will. It is funny to hear them voice "expert" opinions. Diverdiver and those expressing support and solidarity, thanks. Yea the ones that make me most upset are the ones that insist the Iraqi's never wanted to be free. I've never met a person that does not want to be free or wants to live in fear. Have you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #47 January 17, 2005 I'm with you Matt!! Keep your head down and rounds going down range!! I also say thank you to DiverDiver for starting this thread. All of us in the military both active, guard, and reserve appreciate the support we have gotten form the VAST majority of the public. There always going to be those who stand on the sidelines and snipe. That is where they belong......on the sidelines. IMHO "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #48 January 17, 2005 Hey Jim! It has been a while since w have jumped together! Last Year when the Scremaing Eaglesgot back from Iraq and went to Lakw Wales we missed ya! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #49 January 17, 2005 Thanks! It's always interesting to me that the only feedback I get about what I do is positive - just like yours. Those who oppose my line of work never say a word. In 20.5 years I can't say I have ever had anyone say anything negative about me being a soldier.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tantalum 0 #50 January 18, 2005 I don't know that Richard Simmons is gay at all...but, Tom, make of it whatever you want to. Be my guest to empower yourself! (Your rigorous logical reasoning, or fallacy thereof, would perfectly fall in line with those non-existing WMDs, terrorism ties, etc.) Edited to SHOCK AND AWE, as this seems particularly popular with my fellow Americans these days. QuoteQuote...both you and I know that you are as gay as "Richard Simmons". I don't know Ted, but I'm about to have a PM exchange with him regarding this comment. Consider this your only warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
