rhino 0 #1 January 19, 2005 The next step is the draft..... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144765,00.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflight 0 #2 January 19, 2005 how does "conscientious objection" work? i heard people tried to use it but went under tribunal instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #3 January 19, 2005 If you are a true conscientious objector, you have no business joining any form of military in the 1st place. It can be a valid response to the draft or conscription, however, where your inclusion is without your consent. If a consientious objector is drafted, they usually fall into 2 categories. A) Those who are prepaired to work in support or community service rolls as opposed to combat ready troops. B) Those who feel that even working in a supporting role frees up some other soul to fight - and is hence wrong. These are usually detained for the period they would have been drafted for - or in some cases longer - to prevent or discourage this form of resistance. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #4 January 19, 2005 QuoteThe next step is the draft..... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144765,00.html I'm so confused We did 4 yr's in the USAF declined the wonderful opputunity to reenlistand and got out in70. we were on a bubble for 2 yrs in the Inactive reserves. Has the military changed the "Inactive reserves" to Individual ready reserves and increased the time availabe to be activated to 4 yr's after enlistment runs out rather than 2 yr's. We never thought they would ever activate us due to the draft, I can't imagine the misery the backdoor draft is causing due to a loophole. But I still don't think the american public will accept a draft after V.N. Hope I'm not around to see it. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #5 January 19, 2005 IRR is 4 years now.. If you REALLY read the small print the military can call you up 20 YEARS after your IRR ends. This of course isn't considered the draft either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #6 January 19, 2005 QuoteIRR is 4 years now.. If you REALLY read the small print the military can call you up 20 YEARS after your IRR ends. This of course isn't considered the draft either. Hey...whatever... If you don't want to serve, don't sign the dotted line. Otherwise, STFU and move out (speaking generally and not specifically to you ) Every one of those IRR volunteered to serve and got some benefit from it. It's not a draft. You're free to not serve in this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #7 January 19, 2005 The 1 in 4 number is not a surprise... the Army plans for like a 1 in 3 number... the 1 in 4 number is also somewhat sensationalized... it includes those that are not medically qualified, or have other conflicts that are unrelated to objections to operations in Iraq. Quote"I met the requirements of resignation, I did my eight years. I would have gladly gone before then, but at some point, every person volunteers and they should also have the right to de-volunteer themselves if they choose to go ahead and be a private citizen once again," In this guy’s case, appears to not have resigned. There are requirements, and there is a process... one of the requirements is that you be eligible at the time you submit you letter, not 4 years before... and a release from AD is not the same... just goes to show that even some officer's don't read their contracts. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #8 January 19, 2005 QuoteHey...whatever... If you don't want to serve, don't sign the dotted line. Otherwise, STFU Amen!!! Pisses me off when people voluntarily sign up for service and then refuse to hold up their end of the bargain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 January 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteHey...whatever... If you don't want to serve, don't sign the dotted line. Otherwise, STFU Amen!!! Pisses me off when people voluntarily sign up for service and then refuse to hold up their end of the bargain. Very little of honor or commitment to an oath in the world anymore.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #10 January 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteHey...whatever... If you don't want to serve, don't sign the dotted line. Otherwise, STFU Amen!!! Pisses me off when people voluntarily sign up for service and then refuse to hold up their end of the bargain. Very little of honor or commitment to an oath in the world anymore.... Affirmative just like Some: used car salesmen Military Recruiters Lawyers Salesmen If there was a draft or more contract employee's the IRR might be very limited or not even a issue. Since the draft is off the table, the IRR is a done deal, don't know how many people that signed on the line knew that was going to happen. Of course the gov't can do whatever, even if its not fair, lifes not fair. Some employers have to make a decision between new hires and mandatory over time. Our gov't is making the same choice of the IRR vs a draft. With the advantage of hindsight It would be interesting to see the enlistment paperwork, the IRR parargraph and listen to the recruiters sales pitch. Now that the cats out of the bag about stop loss, IRR, whatever it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the long term. I'm guessing some very unhappy campers To be even handed got to give credit to the folks who are reenlisting, extending for whatever reasons they have honor, duty, etc. If I was on the bubble (IRR) I'd be porking out, doing drugs and marrying a dude Are you really want meR.i.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #11 January 20, 2005 QuoteIRR is 4 years now.. If you REALLY read the small print the military can call you up 20 YEARS after your IRR ends. This of course isn't considered the draft either. They signed up, they accepted the terms, you should know what your putting your name on, whine, whine, whine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 January 20, 2005 QuoteThey signed up, they accepted the terms, you should know what your putting your name on, whine, whine, whine. It isn't a matter of whining. It is a matter of fair play. People sign up for terms,, Normally 4 years active then 4 years IRR "which most people don't understand". The really small print isn't even on the documents themselves.. It states see "xyz doc" for additional info.. The drafters of these military contracts gave Uncle Sam some major backdoor abilities should he choose to use it.. It isn't about whining,. It is deception... I personally knew what I was signing. 90% of the people that sign DON'T... something tells me they will start reading it from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #13 January 20, 2005 QuoteThe really small print isn't even on the documents themselves.. It states see "xyz doc" for additional info Perhaps it is like that with the Marine Corps contract... the Army contract is fairly straight forward when it comes to Active/Reserve commitments and total MSO... I didn't need a lawyer to explain it to me when I was 18... so are the separation and discharge documents, when your MSO is explained again. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #14 January 20, 2005 Quotet isn't a matter of whining. It is a matter of fair play. People sign up for terms,, Normally 4 years active then 4 years IRR "which most people don't understand". The really small print isn't even on the documents themselves.. It states see "xyz doc" for additional info.. The drafters of these military contracts gave Uncle Sam some major backdoor abilities should he choose to use it.. It isn't about whining,. It is deception... I personally knew what I was signing. 90% of the people that sign DON'T... something tells me they will start reading it from now on. yep it's called a learning experience granted when I signed up it was years ago, during the peanut era, I knew what I was in for when I signed up. I guess you and I were taught to read what we signed. But then again when your 18-20 years old you know everything and "life should be fair" Do you know what I mean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #15 January 21, 2005 Like any contract enough people get screwed the lawyers will get into it, get the contracts declared void in the courts (not the chain of cammand) and add some big print to the front end of the contracts. USED CAR SOLD AS IS NO Warrenty!!!!!! Some HR people in the pentagon hate lawyers. To bad so sad. Don't try and hide the real deal under a rock. They want to start a draft then do it! Don't call it stop loss etc. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 January 21, 2005 QuoteLike any contract enough people get screwed the lawyers will get into it, get the contracts declared void in the courts (not the chain of cammand) and add some big print to the front end of the contracts. USED CAR SOLD AS IS NO Warrenty!!!!!! Some HR people in the pentagon hate lawyers. To bad so sad. Don't try and hide the real deal under a rock. They want to start a draft then do it! Don't call it stop loss etc. R.I.P. Stop loss != draft....yeesh.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #17 January 21, 2005 kind of hard to call something a draft when they agreed to it ahead of time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #18 January 21, 2005 Quotekind of hard to call something a draft when they agreed to it ahead of time. The recruiters/Generals or the enlistee's? No reason to get into the SC circle jerk we'll see what the lawyers and courts decide. R.i.P. BTW the used car warrenty that the salesmen told you about for the low mileage car to bad so sad he wasn't authorisedn all repairs are on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #19 January 21, 2005 funny you should say that, I'm a mechanic and extended "warrenty" has a list of what they do and do not cover. Read the fine print and don't act like a victim if you do_not_understand what you are buying. Having said that you are right let's wait and see what the court says Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #20 January 22, 2005 Quotefunny you should say that, I'm a mechanic and extended "warrenty" has a list of what they do and do not cover. Read the fine print and don't act like a victim if you do_not_understand what you are buying. Having said that you are right let's wait and see what the court says Warrenty's Since we have hounds we've been looking at differnt floor materials that can hold up to the hounds toe nails. We saw a nice looking laminate engineered wood product intalled at our local Grocery story. Hey it's sold for high traffic commerical use so we checked it out on the net. Read the warrenty Basically after you take the product out of the box the warrenty IS almost worthless, it only covers manufactors defects, which will be repaired by the manufufactor in the area's they determine to be defective. Specifically excluded damage caused by: Grit, Rocks, womens high heels, animals, dirt water etc. Don't have a clue how the grocery store has confidence the flooring will last. We're going for some heavy duty ceramic tile (No warrenty). R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #21 January 22, 2005 QuoteWe're going for some heavy duty ceramic tile (No warrenty My house is 100% ceramic tile. Need any hints just ask. 2000 sq ft of evil conservative marble tile btw hoover floormate keeps it real clean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
