A message from a Marine In Iraq

[kai2k1 0]

Found this on a Sociology forum that the wife belongs to. I found it to be pretty profound.

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Subject: WAR IS REAL AND FOR KEEPS!

In response to the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds in a wounded insurgent's head in Fallujah, here's a response from a Marine:

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It's a safety issue pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and moveon.org.

Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. It’s much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact.

Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.

Here is your situation Marine: You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or vest made of explosives. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room. You're already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (that was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you do?

You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what!!!

What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it. Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same. Marines end up getting hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for "war crimes."

Froggy OUT.

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[vmsfreaky1 0]

Yep, war is a dirty business, I never had a doubt about it.

The fact remains the U.S should not be in iraq.

And just remember who picked this fight, you made the bed....

[Botellines 0]

If the U.S had been attacked, i would be with you. But this was a so-called preemptive strike, so although from a tactical point of view i may be inclined to agree with you, if you want to be something else than a terrorist, you shouldn´t be giving the "coup of grace" to everyone who defends against you.
At the moment the U.S is commiting war crimes against the iraqui population (I refuse to call it collateral damage) and is telling the world how good, generous and well intentionated they are. The rest of the world is not buying it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Yep, war is a dirty business, I never had a doubt about it.

The fact remains the U.S should not be in iraq.

And just remember who picked this fight, you made the bed....

Just the fact that Iraq was shooting at American planes in the No Fly Zone was an act of war. SH picked the fight and he got one.

[diablopilot 2]

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At the moment the U.S is commiting war crimes against the iraqui population

How do you know? Are you one of the Iraqi population?

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and is telling the world how good, generous and well intentionated they are.

I think you're making that up.

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if you want to be something else than a terrorist, you shouldn´t be giving the "coup of grace" to everyone who defends against you.

Actually this whole mess would have been over along time ago if the rest of ther world hadn't gotten squemish, and pretended to get some morals.


Fuck, the lot of ya have been systematicly killing each other in increasingly brutal and evil ways over pretty much nothing since the dawn of time, but you'd rather lump your societal guilt upon the US. Remember, we've only been at this "goverment thing" for about 200 years......


Ok. I can deal with that.

How much does it cost to put a sniper team in to take out a dozzen targets..... that's all a political turnover should cost anymore these days, IF people weren't such sniveling whiner's about "fair play".

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[crozby 0]

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How much does it cost to put a sniper team in to take out a dozzen targets..... that's all a political turnover should cost anymore these days, IF people weren't such sniveling whiner's about "fair play".

I never understood why that option wasn't used. Anyone think they know?

[mnealtx 0]

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How much does it cost to put a sniper team in to take out a dozzen targets..... that's all a political turnover should cost anymore these days, IF people weren't such sniveling whiner's about "fair play".

I never understood why that option wasn't used. Anyone think they know?

Yeah, then Botellines and the rest would be screaming about us assasinating people...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Botellines 0]

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How do you know? Are you one of the Iraqi population?

No i just saw the picture of a father picking pieces of her 6 years old daughter who was blown up by an U.S bomb.

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and is telling the world how good, generous and well intentionated they are.

I think you're making that up.

I am not, last time i checked the reasons for the Irak war, you were fighting to give them freedom and democracy, and probably a McDonalds as well. And not for selfish interests.

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Actually this whole mess would have been over along time ago if the rest of ther world hadn't gotten squemish, and pretended to get some morals.

I have the feeling that what you have in mind doesn´t have anything to do with human rights...

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Fuck, the lot of ya have been systematicly killing each other in increasingly brutal and evil ways over pretty much nothing since the dawn of time, but you'd rather lump your societal guilt upon the US. Remember, we've only been at this "goverment thing" for about 200 years......

Yet you pretend to teach lessons about democracy and goverments...

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How much does it cost to put a sniper team in to take out a dozzen targets..... that's all a political turnover should cost anymore these days, IF people weren't such sniveling whiner's about "fair play".

Get over it, fair play is a necesity given the premises of your war (give Irak a democracy last time i checked). If you didn´t want to have a tactical disadvantage to begin with, Bush should have said the true reasons for this war beforehand.

[ColdDuck 0]

Why the hell should we have to wait until we are attacked before we act? That is one of the dumbest rationales I have ever heard.

By the way the U.S. operation in Iraq would be considered a "Preventive Strike" and not a so called preemptive strike.

"Insurance should called In case shit happens, if shit don't happen shouldn't I get my money back?"

[crozby 0]

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Yeah, then Botellines and the rest would be screaming about us assasinating people...

Not if it was made to look like someone else did it.

[rhino 0]

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No i just saw the picture of a father picking pieces of her 6 years old daughter who was blown up by an U.S bomb.

And you KNOW it was a US bomb through WHAT psychic premonition ? PROPAGANDA is a big part of what the terrorists use. Sympathizers like yourself buy it.

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Irak

It is IRAQ

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I have the feeling that what you have in mind doesn´t have anything to do with human rights...

You are supporting people that don't even believe in life. They would just rather raise their children believing in martyrdom instead of raising a family to be producing members of society. I guess 27 fictional virgins are more important? What about the female suicide bombers? Do they get virgin's too?

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Yet you pretend to teach lessons about democracy and goverments...

Democracy may not be perfect. But it's the best thing we have.

[tkhayes 348]

all through this thread - they have been called 'terrorists'.

Nice change of language. Before we invaded, Iraq had few, if any, terrorists. First we call them insurgents, now we call them terrorists. Very convenient.

I wonder how many of there 'terrorists' that we supposedly kill every day, have EVER launched an attack against ANY target prior to the invasion.

I said it before, and I will say it again. If someone invaded our country, we would clearly go out of our way to launch attacks against them, pick them off one by one, bomb them, whatever had to be done to get our country back. But we would NEVER consider ourselves to be 'terrorists'.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Insurgents then terrorists…

60 years ago they were called Partisans and 59 years ago SS officers were tried and found guilty of war crimes for executing them.

How times change.

[blitzkrieg 0]

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No i just saw the picture of a father picking pieces of her 6 years old daughter who was blown up by an U.S bomb.

wow, that's crazy. i didn't know bombs actually killed people. i guess it's a good thing iraq doesn't have any WMDs.

maybe you should look at some pictures of the WTC aftermath.

[christelsabine 1]

And you KNOW it was a US bomb through WHAT psychic premonition ? PROPAGANDA is a big part of what the terrorists use. Sympathizers like yourself buy it.

[Tonto 1]

You've done it already.

You called them Minute men.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[markd_nscr986 0]

Now here's something different
Yet ANOTHER Anti-US diatribe by Botellines.......

If it is a question of a "tango" dying or a US Marine dying,to me,it will be the "tango everytime

This coming from the "mind set" that allowed ethnic cleansing to go on unchecked practically in their backyard

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[justinb138 0]

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How do you know? Are you one of the Iraqi population?

No i just saw the picture of a father picking pieces of her 6 years old daughter who was blown up by an U.S bomb.

So I take it the pictures of the tens of thousand of dead when SH gassed his own people a while back didn't bother you?

[justinb138 0]

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Nice change of language. Before we invaded, Iraq had few, if any, terrorists. First we call them insurgents, now we call them terrorists. Very convenient.

I guess if they didn't dress in civilian clothes we could call them soldiers, but that would require adhereing to the rules of the geneva convention I think.

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I wonder how many of there 'terrorists' that we supposedly kill every day, have EVER launched an attack against ANY target prior to the invasion.

Hmmm..... Kuwait.....some of SH's own people in the early 90's?

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I said it before, and I will say it again. If someone invaded our country, we would clearly go out of our way to launch attacks against them, pick them off one by one, bomb them, whatever had to be done to get our country back. But we would NEVER consider ourselves to be 'terrorists'.

But if you beheaded a civilian and video'd it for television would you?

[tkhayes 348]

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Hmmm..... Kuwait.....some of SH's own people in the early 90's?

Hmm, ....so invading another country is a terrorist action? VERY interesting. Now I know why so many people in the world think GWB is a terrorist!

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But if you beheaded a civilian and video'd it for television would you?

No actually I would not - the Nazi's tortured and murdered millions, much of it filmed. We NEVER called them terrorists. The Rwandans tortured, hacked and mutilated 800,000 people in 100 days, and we never called them terrorists either.

I think George Bush is really happy that the average American is gullible enough to buy this crap and bullshit about 'terrorists'. So easy to keep tying it to WMD's and 9/11 which has been proven again and again to NOT be related

[wmw999 2,445]

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maybe you should look at some pictures of the WTC aftermath.

What does the WTC have to do with Iraq?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[markd_nscr986 0]

***No actually I would not - the Nazi's tortured and murdered millions, much of it filmed. We NEVER called them terrorists. The Rwandans tortured, hacked and mutilated 800,000 people in 100 days, and we never called them terrorists either.



So by your statement,you are now identifying uniformed soldiers as terrorists.............interesting

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[justinb138 0]

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Hmm, ....so invading another country is a terrorist action? VERY interesting. Now I know why so many people in the world think GWB is a terrorist!

I don't understand you're reasoning on this one, because the wars were started for different reasons. I don't wish to argue why GWB went over there, so lets not start that.

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But if you beheaded a civilian and video'd it for television would you?

No actually I would not - the Nazi's tortured and murdered millions, much of it filmed. We NEVER called them terrorists. The Rwandans tortured, hacked and mutilated 800,000 people in 100 days, and we never called them terrorists either.

I think George Bush is really happy that the average American is gullible enough to buy this crap and bullshit about 'terrorists'. So easy to keep tying it to WMD's and 9/11 which has been proven again and again to NOT be related

I'll call them doctors, pianists, painters if it will make you happy. It doesn't change the fact that they all killed scores of civilians.

Unless the insurgents start adhering to the rules set forth by the geneva convention (stop hiding in mosques and disguising themselves as civilians, etc...), I don't think anyone is going to call them enemy soldiers.

I don't see why you think that because I support the war in Iraq I support or even like GWB, as I don't.

[justinb138 0]

terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear [syn: act of terrorism, terrorist act]

I would say that exeuting civilians on TV, suicide bombings, etc qualifies them as terrorists.

The nazis didn't kill people to just make a political point or instill fear in a population. I'm not familiar with the situation in Rwanda, but I'm guessing that wasn't the reasoning behind it either. We don't call that terrorism. We call that genocide.

genocide

n : systematic killing of a racial or cultural group [syn: race murder, racial extermination]

[juanesky 0]

Justin, some terrorists lovers in here do support, at least morally, these bunch of people, who think it is just great to bomb public places and kill civilians or unarmed personnel, either with car bombs, IED's or simply by cutting a civilian such as Margaret Hassan to pieces. (Never heard much in the press, nor the general outrage on that one)

They think their cause is honorable, and want them protected by the Geneva convention, even though the leadership is clearly NON IRAQI (IE Al-Zarqawi), they possess no uniforms, and use civilians/holy sites to shield themselves.

Most of these terrorist lovers, will even dare to say that all the Iraqi (read civilian population) casualties are all innocent, from Iraq and with nothing to do with the conflict. and more importantly, ALL INFLICTED BY THE US and the coalition.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon