markd_nscr986 0 #51 February 4, 2005 QuoteSo does he just assume all the Muslim men are wife beaters? Sounds like to me he was referring to the Taliban in particular not Muslim men in general QuoteTrust me there are many Muslim women who choose to ware the Vail because it is a part of their religion. And there are many who choose not to or those that chose to cover there heads with a scarf What I dont get is all the uproar over a Marine espousing a belief in doing his job well......if you were to ask SEALS or Rangers I bet you would get the same answer.....should that be surprising?Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #52 February 4, 2005 QuoteHi . . . we're talking about the article, and why THIS GUY enjoys killing them. Never did I say that's why we're fighting the war. That's about oil. There isn't any oil in afghanistan to fight for. And his statement about enjoying killing to me sounds more like a psychological ploy to motivate soldiers to kill the enemy. In the case of the Afghan ememies they are the Taliban, who are well known to beat and kill their women if they don't comply with their standards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #53 February 4, 2005 QuoteYou have a problem with him since he is an American. No, I have a problem with the stupid remark he made. I have a problem that remarks like that just fuel the hatred for Americans in the middle east. I have a problem with the fact that a stupid remark like that has a habit of getting your teenage americans killed. To me it is just as stupid as the crusade and bring them on remarks. Like I stated before, if it had been a general from another nation, active in either afghanistan or iraq I would have said the same thing. So, to use your words: QuoteSo much your your thoughts huh? Now I'll let you finish with your customary last word..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelel01 1 #54 February 4, 2005 Fine, it's a psychological ploy. It's still wrong (IMO) to revel in the death of another human being, or 1000's, whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #55 February 4, 2005 It's a long way from "I enjoy it" to "it's morally right." I'm glad he enjoys his job. I don't see him saying "killing people is morally right." I'm guessing he still has a pretty good grip on when it is, and is not, appropriate.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #56 February 4, 2005 QuoteI don't see him saying "killing people is morally right." I'm guessing he still has a pretty good grip on when it is, and is not, appropriate. I agree. But in his position, he should be more careful about addressing an audience in front of cameras. What he said where he said it just helps fuelling the believes of people we are trying to win over. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #57 February 4, 2005 What's the big deal? He likes what he's doing. I am sure there are vets that enjoy euthanizing animals, cops that enjoy shooting people, interrogators that enjoy hurting people etc. The moral judgement you should make is not on the person who does his job, but rather the rules/circumstances that require him to do it. There are far too many people out there who are OK with war (because we're righteous or whatever) but not OK with what happens during a war. Don't want to see innocent people killed, kids with their heads shot off, shooting sprees? Avoid war. It's silly to go after the people who do their jobs once it starts. Edited to add - but I will agree that that was a poor place to voice such an opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #58 February 4, 2005 QuoteFine, it's a psychological ploy. It's still wrong (IMO) to revel in the death of another human being, or 1000's, whatever. I by no means will ever say that it is right. But as long as there are wars there will have to be soldiers to fight them. We need to train and motivate those soldiers the best way possible. It isn't pretty and it never will be. War is an ugly thing that has been around as long as people have been walking the earth and is unlikely to ever go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #59 February 4, 2005 Oh, no doubt it's a public relations blunder of reasonable proportions. I just think it's silly to start thinking that he (or any other soldier) is some kind of homicidal maniac because they admit to enjoying their job. Lots of people would call you crazy if you admitted to enjoying falling out of an airplane, too.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #60 February 4, 2005 QuoteOh, no doubt it's a public relations blunder of reasonable proportions. I just think it's silly to start thinking that he (or any other soldier) is some kind of homicidal maniac because they admit to enjoying their job. Agreed QuoteLots of people would call you crazy if you admitted to enjoying falling out of an airplane, too I don't enjoy it. But they keep leaving the door open and I keep falling. Maybe i should try something more conservative, like walking on bridges in Idaho... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #61 February 4, 2005 I think Kelly hit the nail right on the head. What you’re saying is dehumanize your enemy so it is easier to kill them. Oh yea we have tortured a few too haven't we. So what’s the difference.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #62 February 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteThey're both races, and you can't kill someone because you "assume" they beat their women. Not all of them do, so it's not a fair statement. Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. Lets see the reason we are there is WMD there is no WMD. So wow not a very good statement there was it.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #63 February 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey're both races, and you can't kill someone because you "assume" they beat their women. Not all of them do, so it's not a fair statement. Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. Lets see the reason we are there is WMD there is no WMD. So wow not a very good statement there was it. you are getting the Afghan conflict mixed up with the Iraq War. The US went to Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring Bin Laden. Yes it makes it easier to kill your enemy if you dehumanize them. Some people take it to far. That will happen. You punish those that do take it to far and praise those that simply do their job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdhill 0 #64 February 4, 2005 QuoteThey're both races Neither of them is a race, one is religion, one is a subset of a religion. And for the record, he has not said he enjoyed killing, he said he enjoyed shooting at the bad guys and brawling... bad PR, sure... he probably will never get the nod to be a CINC because he appears to lack diplomatic skills... but that's probably OK with him, because he doesn't want to be a diplomat, he wants to be a warfighter... which is a good thing for a Marine. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #65 February 4, 2005 Trust me I am not the one who is confused here. As usual people don't even read what I wroth this was said by justi QuoteLast time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. So i responded to that even quoted it.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #66 February 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey're both races, and you can't kill someone because you "assume" they beat their women. Not all of them do, so it's not a fair statement. Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. Lets see the reason we are there is WMD there is no WMD. So wow not a very good statement there was it. I never mentioned WMD. You did. Anyway, just because they haven't found any yet, doesn't mean that they won't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #67 February 4, 2005 QuoteTrust me I am not the one who is confused here. As usual people don't even read what I wroth this was said by justi QuoteLast time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. So i responded to that even quoted it. The article specified the Afghans. So the person you qouted was confused and therefore your statement didn't match the current argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #68 February 4, 2005 Ah. Confused I was it seems. Thanks for the correction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #69 February 4, 2005 I believe in putting my self in the same mind set as the people I disagree with. So I can see where they are coming from. So here it goes. I know you are but what am II'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #70 February 4, 2005 Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you.*** Didn’t you say last time you checked that’s not the reason they're in Iraq. I reminded you of the reason since you mentioned it.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #71 February 4, 2005 QuoteI know you are but what am I Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #72 February 4, 2005 QuoteI believe in putting my self in the same mind set as the people I disagree with. So I can see where they are coming from. So here it goes. I know you are but what am I Umm that doesn't really fit the argument. I wasn't calling you names or belittling you. I just disagree with your statements and am telling you why I disagree and explaining my view points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #73 February 4, 2005 QuoteLast time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you.*** Didn’t you say last time you checked that’s not the reason they're in Iraq. I reminded you of the reason since you mentioned it. The Iraq kinda slipped in there, should have been Afghanistan. I'm kinda used to everything on here lately being about Iraq. I didn't mention anything about WMDs though, or the reason why they are there, I just said it wasn't becuase of the way they treat women. I'm not going to try and guess what the real reason we are in Iraq is (WMD's, etc), as I honestly don't know, and I'm sure it's more than any one reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #74 February 4, 2005 QuoteWhat's the big deal? He likes what he's doing. I am sure there are vets that enjoy euthanizing animals, cops that enjoy shooting people, interrogators that enjoy hurting people etc. And when they describe that part of their job as fun, I would find that scary as well. I am pretty sure that if a cop kills a person and subsequently in a public forum tells people he enjoyed killing the person there would be some repercussions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #75 February 4, 2005 QuoteI am pretty sure that if a cop kills a person and subsequently in a public forum tells people he enjoyed killing the person there would be some repercussions. Quote"Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot . . . It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up front with you. I like brawling." Let's play "find the word he didn't say, that you are putting in his mouth," shall we?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
beowulf 1 #52 February 4, 2005 QuoteHi . . . we're talking about the article, and why THIS GUY enjoys killing them. Never did I say that's why we're fighting the war. That's about oil. There isn't any oil in afghanistan to fight for. And his statement about enjoying killing to me sounds more like a psychological ploy to motivate soldiers to kill the enemy. In the case of the Afghan ememies they are the Taliban, who are well known to beat and kill their women if they don't comply with their standards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #53 February 4, 2005 QuoteYou have a problem with him since he is an American. No, I have a problem with the stupid remark he made. I have a problem that remarks like that just fuel the hatred for Americans in the middle east. I have a problem with the fact that a stupid remark like that has a habit of getting your teenage americans killed. To me it is just as stupid as the crusade and bring them on remarks. Like I stated before, if it had been a general from another nation, active in either afghanistan or iraq I would have said the same thing. So, to use your words: QuoteSo much your your thoughts huh? Now I'll let you finish with your customary last word..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #54 February 4, 2005 Fine, it's a psychological ploy. It's still wrong (IMO) to revel in the death of another human being, or 1000's, whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #55 February 4, 2005 It's a long way from "I enjoy it" to "it's morally right." I'm glad he enjoys his job. I don't see him saying "killing people is morally right." I'm guessing he still has a pretty good grip on when it is, and is not, appropriate.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #56 February 4, 2005 QuoteI don't see him saying "killing people is morally right." I'm guessing he still has a pretty good grip on when it is, and is not, appropriate. I agree. But in his position, he should be more careful about addressing an audience in front of cameras. What he said where he said it just helps fuelling the believes of people we are trying to win over. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #57 February 4, 2005 What's the big deal? He likes what he's doing. I am sure there are vets that enjoy euthanizing animals, cops that enjoy shooting people, interrogators that enjoy hurting people etc. The moral judgement you should make is not on the person who does his job, but rather the rules/circumstances that require him to do it. There are far too many people out there who are OK with war (because we're righteous or whatever) but not OK with what happens during a war. Don't want to see innocent people killed, kids with their heads shot off, shooting sprees? Avoid war. It's silly to go after the people who do their jobs once it starts. Edited to add - but I will agree that that was a poor place to voice such an opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #58 February 4, 2005 QuoteFine, it's a psychological ploy. It's still wrong (IMO) to revel in the death of another human being, or 1000's, whatever. I by no means will ever say that it is right. But as long as there are wars there will have to be soldiers to fight them. We need to train and motivate those soldiers the best way possible. It isn't pretty and it never will be. War is an ugly thing that has been around as long as people have been walking the earth and is unlikely to ever go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #59 February 4, 2005 Oh, no doubt it's a public relations blunder of reasonable proportions. I just think it's silly to start thinking that he (or any other soldier) is some kind of homicidal maniac because they admit to enjoying their job. Lots of people would call you crazy if you admitted to enjoying falling out of an airplane, too.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #60 February 4, 2005 QuoteOh, no doubt it's a public relations blunder of reasonable proportions. I just think it's silly to start thinking that he (or any other soldier) is some kind of homicidal maniac because they admit to enjoying their job. Agreed QuoteLots of people would call you crazy if you admitted to enjoying falling out of an airplane, too I don't enjoy it. But they keep leaving the door open and I keep falling. Maybe i should try something more conservative, like walking on bridges in Idaho... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #61 February 4, 2005 I think Kelly hit the nail right on the head. What you’re saying is dehumanize your enemy so it is easier to kill them. Oh yea we have tortured a few too haven't we. So what’s the difference.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #62 February 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteThey're both races, and you can't kill someone because you "assume" they beat their women. Not all of them do, so it's not a fair statement. Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. Lets see the reason we are there is WMD there is no WMD. So wow not a very good statement there was it.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #63 February 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey're both races, and you can't kill someone because you "assume" they beat their women. Not all of them do, so it's not a fair statement. Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. Lets see the reason we are there is WMD there is no WMD. So wow not a very good statement there was it. you are getting the Afghan conflict mixed up with the Iraq War. The US went to Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring Bin Laden. Yes it makes it easier to kill your enemy if you dehumanize them. Some people take it to far. That will happen. You punish those that do take it to far and praise those that simply do their job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #64 February 4, 2005 QuoteThey're both races Neither of them is a race, one is religion, one is a subset of a religion. And for the record, he has not said he enjoyed killing, he said he enjoyed shooting at the bad guys and brawling... bad PR, sure... he probably will never get the nod to be a CINC because he appears to lack diplomatic skills... but that's probably OK with him, because he doesn't want to be a diplomat, he wants to be a warfighter... which is a good thing for a Marine. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #65 February 4, 2005 Trust me I am not the one who is confused here. As usual people don't even read what I wroth this was said by justi QuoteLast time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. So i responded to that even quoted it.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #66 February 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey're both races, and you can't kill someone because you "assume" they beat their women. Not all of them do, so it's not a fair statement. Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. Lets see the reason we are there is WMD there is no WMD. So wow not a very good statement there was it. I never mentioned WMD. You did. Anyway, just because they haven't found any yet, doesn't mean that they won't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #67 February 4, 2005 QuoteTrust me I am not the one who is confused here. As usual people don't even read what I wroth this was said by justi QuoteLast time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you. So i responded to that even quoted it. The article specified the Afghans. So the person you qouted was confused and therefore your statement didn't match the current argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #68 February 4, 2005 Ah. Confused I was it seems. Thanks for the correction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #69 February 4, 2005 I believe in putting my self in the same mind set as the people I disagree with. So I can see where they are coming from. So here it goes. I know you are but what am II'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #70 February 4, 2005 Last time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you.*** Didn’t you say last time you checked that’s not the reason they're in Iraq. I reminded you of the reason since you mentioned it.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #71 February 4, 2005 QuoteI know you are but what am I Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #72 February 4, 2005 QuoteI believe in putting my self in the same mind set as the people I disagree with. So I can see where they are coming from. So here it goes. I know you are but what am I Umm that doesn't really fit the argument. I wasn't calling you names or belittling you. I just disagree with your statements and am telling you why I disagree and explaining my view points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #73 February 4, 2005 QuoteLast time I checked thats not the reason they're in Iraq. You kill someone because they are trying to kill you.*** Didn’t you say last time you checked that’s not the reason they're in Iraq. I reminded you of the reason since you mentioned it. The Iraq kinda slipped in there, should have been Afghanistan. I'm kinda used to everything on here lately being about Iraq. I didn't mention anything about WMDs though, or the reason why they are there, I just said it wasn't becuase of the way they treat women. I'm not going to try and guess what the real reason we are in Iraq is (WMD's, etc), as I honestly don't know, and I'm sure it's more than any one reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #74 February 4, 2005 QuoteWhat's the big deal? He likes what he's doing. I am sure there are vets that enjoy euthanizing animals, cops that enjoy shooting people, interrogators that enjoy hurting people etc. And when they describe that part of their job as fun, I would find that scary as well. I am pretty sure that if a cop kills a person and subsequently in a public forum tells people he enjoyed killing the person there would be some repercussions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #75 February 4, 2005 QuoteI am pretty sure that if a cop kills a person and subsequently in a public forum tells people he enjoyed killing the person there would be some repercussions. Quote"Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot . . . It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up front with you. I like brawling." Let's play "find the word he didn't say, that you are putting in his mouth," shall we?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
