Interesting Article re: Muslims, Terrorism & American Morality

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Muslims don’t condemn terrorism for the same reason that:

10. Americans can’t condemn the firing on Fort Sumter 140 years after the fact.

9. Americans think Gettysburg was a tie.

8. So many Americans proudly fly and defend the Stars and Bars.

7. Americans open museums in praise of the Confederacy.

6. Americans had an Attorney General who is an admirer of the Confederacy.

5. Members of the so-called Party of Lincoln defend a flag of treason and spit in the face of its founder.

4. Americans still admire Confederate traitors and outlaws like Lee and Quantrill.

3. Mt. Rushmore still exists.

2. Ronald Reagan was able to find excuses for apartheid in “African tribalism,” while his eulogists have now chosen, en masse, to forget that moment and dozens like them.

But the real #1 reason that Muslims don’t condemn terrorism is that moral evasion is not a uniquely Muslim trait, but a human capacity practiced everywhere by everyone--especially by those at war with themselves, unable to admit it, and unable to come to resolution about it.

http://hnn.us/articles/6963.html

Your thoughts?

[justinb138 0]

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8. So many Americans proudly fly and defend the Stars and Bars.

I live in Texas (the most redneck state that I've been to), and I've seen it once in the past 6 months, while I was driving between Orlando and Cocoa Beach two weeks ago. I believe that statement is inaccurate.

[billvon 2,991]

> and I've seen it once in the past 6 months . . .

There was a huge stink recently when a Texas courthouse wouldn't take down the confederate flag they were flying on the building. A local TV poll asked "do you agree with the placement of a Confederate battle flag on private property 80 feet from the Grimes County Court House?" in a poll. Results:

Yes 96%
No 2%
Undecided 1%

When another poll was taken, 61% of Texans surveyed said that the Confederate Flag symbolizes the history of the South. Only 16% said it had negative connotations (associations with slavery.)

So apparently a lot of Texans feel very strongly about flying confederate flags.

[Buried 0]

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6. Americans had an Attorney General who is an admirer of the Confederacy.

Blame the South.

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7. Americans open museums in praise of the Confederacy.

Blame the South

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[jumper03 0]

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I live in Texas (the most redneck state)

I would strongly dispute this. How much time have you spent in the south?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[justinb138 0]

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There was a huge stink recently when a Texas courthouse wouldn't take down the confederate flag they were flying on the building. A local TV poll asked "do you agree with the placement of a Confederate battle flag on private property 80 feet from the Grimes County Court House?" in a poll. Results:

Yes 96%
No 2%
Undecided 1%

Ok, so a redneck town of 2000 people wouldn't take down the confederate flag, how does that equate to "So Many Americans"?

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When another poll was taken, 61% of Texans surveyed said that the Confederate Flag symbolizes the history of the South. Only 16% said it had negative connotations (associations with slavery.)

So apparently a lot of Texans feel very strongly about flying confederate flags.

No, 61% feel that is symbolizes the history of the south, and 16% believed it had negative connotations.

Your quoted poll never mentioned how many of them actually flew the flag. Just because they feel it symbolizes the history of the south, doesn't mean that they fly the flag.

[miked10270 0]

So...

Muslims don’t condemn terrorism for the same reason that:

Americans both face and celebrate their history & the legacy of past generations?

I see a (perhaps sometime limited) degree of honesty on one side... And an excuse for inhumanity & racism on the other!

In favoUr of Americans, they are collectively capable of criticising their history & current activities.....

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[justinb138 0]

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I live in Texas (the most redneck state)

I would strongly dispute this. How much time have you spent in the south?

Alot, most of it here though. I fixed it.

[billvon 2,991]

>Ok, so a redneck town of 2000 people wouldn't take down the
>confederate flag, how does that equate to "So Many Americans"?

I think there may be more than one redneck town in the USA. It's certainly not the majority of americans - but then, the majority of arabs don't celebrate terrorism either.

>Your quoted poll never mentioned how many of them actually flew
>the flag. Just because they feel it symbolizes the history of the
>south, doesn't mean that they fly the flag.

The big issue is that they don't see it as a symbol of terrorism, death and treason, they see it as a part of their own history, a part that many are proud of. Understand that and you may begin to understand why some arabs do not condemn terrorism.

[Skyrad 0]

What the hell was all that about??????

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Americans still admire Confederate traitors and outlaws like Lee and Quantrill

Lee? As in General Lee? Why wouldn't American's admire him? He was a great General.

Quantrill on the other hand was a war criminal pure and simple...

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Americans still admire Confederate traitors and outlaws like Lee and Quantrill"

William Wallace, Robert The Bruce, Bonnie Prince Charlie, Robin Hood, Dick Turpin.......

Yeah Americans are alone in respecting rebels, outlaws, lollygaggers, rapscallions and ne'erdowells.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[dropoutdave 0]

Hey leave Robin Hod outta this, he was a good guy!

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May Contain Nut traces......

[Skolem45 0]

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There was a huge stink recently when a Texas courthouse wouldn't take down the confederate flag they were flying on the building. A local TV poll asked "do you agree with the placement of a Confederate battle flag on private property 80 feet from the Grimes County Court House?" in a poll. Results:

Yes 96%
No 2%
Undecided 1%

Private property, bro. Freedom of speech, ever heard of it? Wake me up when crys for violence are mainstream, as they are in a lot of Muslim countries.

[billvon 2,991]

>Private property, bro.

The stink I was referring to was the courthouse refusing to take down the flag. That's a public courthouse. They were sued and lost. The compromise reached was that they would move the flag 80 feet away and fly it on a private lot.

>Wake me up when crys for violence are mainstream, as they are in a lot of Muslim countries.

Perhaps you missed a recent war, where we attacked Iraq and killed tens of thousands in a pre-emptive invasion. In other words, we had no justification beyond what someone _might_ do. If you did miss it, go back through these very forums and see how many people were crying for war around March of 2003.

[tcnelson 1]

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>we had no justification beyond what someone _might_ do.

that's all the justification a country needs to protect itself. america's governing body, to include intelligence agencies, perceived a threat at the time (monday morning qb all you want) and they chose to be proactive. all of the sanctions that iraq ignored over a decade period of time (no fly zones, shooting at american planes, etc.) were also a good reason to remove sadam imo. all in all, i believe that america was totally justified in its actions based on pure political reasons let alone the humanitarian ones.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Skolem45 0]

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They were sued and lost. The compromise reached was that they would move the flag 80 feet away and fly it on a private lot.

So all is well, then. The offensive symbol has been removed from the public building, and on private property they can fly whatever flag they want. And there is still a sea of difference between flying the Confederate flag on private property, and openly pronouncing from the pulpit, with tacit government approval, that terrorists ("martyrs", whatever) go to heaven.

But what's more important, the "reasons" that on the list that started this thread are all about Americans not condeming things that happened 150 years ago. The Muslim authority figures do not condemn terrorism that happens right NOW. World of difference.

[billvon 2,991]

>that's all the justification a country needs to protect itself.

Would North Korea be justified in detonating nuclear weapons high over the US (to destroy our electrical grid) to protect themselves from a US invasion? Assuming Jong-Il thought the US might invade?

>i believe that america was totally justified in its actions based on pure
> political reasons let alone the humanitarian ones.

Perhaps, but unless you claim that only the US is allowed to 'defend' itself in that way, that is a very scary precedent to set.

[billvon 2,991]

>But what's more important, the "reasons" that on the list that started
>this thread are all about Americans not condeming things that happened
> 150 years ago. The Muslim authority figures do not condemn terrorism
> that happens right NOW. World of difference.

Are you claiming that the south did NOT support terrorism and treason (as embodied by the Confederation) during the Civil War? That's an absurd claim. Southerners have supported the Confederacy since the civil war; their support, stretching from when it was going on to today, is no different than the support some Arabs are showing for terrorism, both in the past and today.

The original article pointed out that a great many americans (roughly 1/3 of them) supported the south during the civil war. Today, many arabs support terrorism against their perceived enemies, although at much lower percentages. Their reasons for doing so are similar.

[tcnelson 1]

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>Would North Korea be justified in detonating nuclear weapons high over the US (to destroy our electrical grid) to protect themselves from a US invasion? Assuming Jong-Il thought the US might invade?

yes, if north korea thought that the us was going to do harm to it without provocation, then yes, of course. you see, america believed that saddam was mad (jong-il has proved himself a looney toon as well) enough to attack it or it's allies, or to help those who would, for no more reason than the fact that they hate america. i would throw the first jab or shoot the first gunshot if i thought that someone was imminently close to doing the same to me.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[billvon 2,991]

>yes, if north korea thought that the us was going to do harm to it without
>provocation, then yes, of course.

Then you have just given a great many countries in the world justification to attack the US. Not the best course of action, I believe, if we are to see our kids grow up.

>you see, america believed that saddam was mad . . . .

We didn't attack Iraq because Saddam was mad. We attacked him because we claimed he was quite shrewd and was hiding his vast WMD stores from us. We didn't start to change our tune to "well, he was a lunatic" and "we're liberating Iraq!" until after we realized he didn't have any.

>i would throw the first jab or shoot the first gunshot if i thought that
>someone was imminently close to doing the same to me.

No problem there. Not sure what you're comparing that to, though, since Iraq was certainly no imminent threat to us.

[tcnelson 1]

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>Then you have just given a great many countries in the world justification to attack the US.

some have already attacked bill. i didn't give any radicals justification to attack us, the ones who wish to do us harm have justified to themselves already why we are the "infadels" long before we invaded iraq. with their reasoning, our kids wouldn't grow up for any reason so, defending them is all the more important.

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We didn't attack Iraq because Saddam was mad. We attacked him because we claimed he was quite shrewd and was hiding his vast WMD stores from us. We didn't start to change our tune to "well, he was a lunatic" and "we're liberating Iraq!" until after we realized he didn't have any.

we attacked him because we believed that he was crazy enough and had the capability to do americans harm, period. liberation was a good side effect.

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No problem there. Not sure what you're comparing that to, though, since Iraq was certainly no imminent threat to us.

i disagree, i think that saddam's iraq was an imminent threat. he had no problem trying to usurp kuwait or killing kurds and he hates us worse than kuwaites and kurds put together.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[billvon 2,991]

>some have already attacked bill.

And some we have already attacked. You may recall a very bloody war we had with N Korea that we didn't win.

>i didn't give any radicals justification to attack us . . .

You mean other than:

Killing a lot of Vietnamese and North Koreans
Supporting and arming Israel against Arab countries
Giving Saddam WMD fixins and military intelligence to use against the Iranians
Arming revolutionaries in several countries we didn't like
Giving billions in arms to radical islamic terrorists
Being the only country in the world to use nukes against civilians


Does that mean we're horrible? No, it means we're just like every other country out there - looking out for our own self interest, and sometimes being a little short sighted. That's no problem; everyone does that. It does become a problem when people get on a high horse and say "the US is the only moral country; our enemies are dirty rotten lying scumbags!" Because if we use that as justification to invade, then every other country out there can use the same justification to come after us - and be just as 'right' as we are.

>with their reasoning, our kids wouldn't grow up for any reason so,
>defending them is all the more important.

Starting wars to keep our children out of wars is like smoking heavily to make sure you live a long time.

>i disagree, i think that saddam's iraq was an imminent threat. he
>had no problem trying to usurp kuwait or killing kurds and he hates
>us worse than kuwaites and kurds put together.

?? He was our bestest friend; he even asked us permission to attack Kuwait. (We said we didn't care if he did.) What sort of imminent threat did he pose to the US? Was he going to fly over here and punch Rumsfeld in the nose?

[Skolem45 0]

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Are you claiming that the south did NOT support terrorism and treason (as embodied by the Confederation) during the Civil War?

Um... How does the Confederacy embody terrorism?

And treason? That doesn't make sense to me either - they seceded, exercising their right to self-determination; then the two resulting nations had a war.

Sorry, honestly don't understand what you are talking about.

[justinb138 0]

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Sorry, honestly don't understand what you are talking about.

You're not alone.