Jimbo 0 #1 February 27, 2005 Grounded: Millionaire John Gilmore stays close to home while making a point about privacy He's unable to travel because he refuses to present a government-approved ID http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05058/462446.stm It's long, but I think interesting and worth a read and the ensuing discussion. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #2 February 27, 2005 I'm pretty conservative, but more power to this guy. I have serious problems with our reaction to 9/11. Give pilots guns & let everyone on board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #3 February 27, 2005 QuoteI have serious problems with our reaction to 9/11. It was a knee jerk reaction to a problem that we weren't (aren't?) prepared to deal with. It's my hope that we'll examine what works and what doesn't and start a serious reform the TSA. This surprised me more than anything, maybe it shouldn't have. QuoteThis wasn't the case when Congress passed the Air Transportation Security Act of 1974. The Department of Transportation was instructed to hold close information that would "constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy" or "reveal trade secrets" or "be detrimental to the safety of persons traveling in air transportation." - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #4 February 27, 2005 QuoteI'm pretty conservative, but more power to this guy. I have serious problems with our reaction to 9/11. Give pilots guns & let everyone on board. Why would a self-proclaimed conservative be anything other than HORRIFIED by the loss of personal freedoms under this administration (and other recent ones too). Imagine what Ben Franklin would say!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #5 February 27, 2005 Kallend...I'll bet you and Ward L. Churchill have a lot in common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #6 February 27, 2005 Quote It was a knee jerk reaction to a problem that we weren't (aren't?) prepared to deal with. It's my hope that we'll examine what works and what doesn't and start a serious reform the TSA. Wishful thinking. TSA is largely a PR exercise. It reminds me of the government complex where I work (PA state capitol). There are stringent security requirements for vistors, but not for employees. Who's the biggest security risk in any employment area? A disgruntled employee, of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #7 February 28, 2005 QuoteKallend...I'll bet you and Ward L. Churchill have a lot in common. I disagree with Kallend as much as anyone here, but that strikes me as perhaps a bit unfair.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #8 February 28, 2005 Flying is not a right... showing an ID is not unreasonable... according to the supreme court, there is a right to privacy, but they have not concluded there is a right to anonymity. I agree the USAPA is a knee-jerk reaction to 9-11, and that the TSA is a bureaucratic nightmare, and a lot more show than go, but this guy needs to get a life. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #9 February 28, 2005 Quote Flying is not a right... showing an ID is not unreasonable... according to the supreme court, there is a right to privacy, but they have not concluded there is a right to anonymity. I agree with everything you've said, what I take issue with in this particular article is the reference to the laws classified as Secret Sensitive Information. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #10 February 28, 2005 I agree... for a free society to remain free the government must operate in the open... if the TSA were as competent as we pay them to be, there would be no need to hide the rules... they hide them to hide the loop holes from the public so they "feel" safe. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #11 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'm pretty conservative, but more power to this guy. I have serious problems with our reaction to 9/11. Give pilots guns & let everyone on board. Why would a self-proclaimed conservative be anything other than HORRIFIED by the loss of personal freedoms under this administration (and other recent ones too). Imagine what Ben Franklin would say! Is that sarcasm? Funny how it seems the US conservs yell the loudest about Const rights, yet it's generally the conserv politicians that pass things like RICO, The Terrorism Bill, The TSA, The PAtriot Act and the sort. And the conserv citizens are against associtioons like The ACLU, which is here to protect civil rights for all, so excuse me if I can't help but to look at conservatives' fight for rights as a smoke screen. I, of course don't direct this at all conservatives, but it seems that especially the politicians do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #12 February 28, 2005 QuoteI agree... for a free society to remain free the government must operate in the open... if the TSA were as competent as we pay them to be, there would be no need to hide the rules... they hide them to hide the loop holes from the public so they "feel" safe. J The real ugly side hasn't beed exposed yet. Most people don't know or care, but as far as anyone with FAA licenses go, the TSA can direct the FAA to yank any licenses, deem the file classified and the airman has no appeal rights since he can't appeal what he can't discover. It hasn't been excersized yet, but the foundation is laid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #13 February 28, 2005 QuoteThe ACLU, which is here to protect civil rights for all Bwaaahahahahahhahah!!!!!!!!!! The ACLU picks and chooses what rights they want to fight for, and certainly do not fight for everyone... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #14 February 28, 2005 QuoteKallend...I'll bet you and Ward L. Churchill have a lot in common. I have as much in common with him as you have in common with Joe McCarthy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 February 28, 2005 Quoteif the TSA were as competent as we pay them to be LOL, after a recent experince with the TSA I know for a fact that they are a blind paper tiger. I feel no more secure on a plane thanks to the TSA then I did pre-TSA. Only thing thats changed is the passengers mindset, security hasn't changed that much at all.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #16 February 28, 2005 Yup, it's gone from "they're doing their job" to a lot more "us versus them" mentality. The Thousands Standing Around have really made flying that much more of an ordeal and less of an enjoyable trip.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #17 March 1, 2005 QuoteHe was employee No. 5 at Sun Microsystems, which made Unix, the free software of the Web, the world standard. This is complete and utter bullshit on a number of levels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #18 March 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe was employee No. 5 at Sun Microsystems, which made Unix, the free software of the Web, the world standard. This is complete and utter bullshit on a number of levels. Yeah, I laughed at that, too. But it's not what the article is about - I'm surprised it's in there at all, it's nothing but fluff, and quite a bit of it, too, IIRC. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #19 March 1, 2005 Quote Imagine what Ben Franklin would say! I bet Jefferson is spinning faster than Franklin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #20 March 1, 2005 ...Funny how it seems the US conservs yell the loudest about Const rights, yet it's generally the conserv politicians that pass things like RICO, The Terrorism Bill, The TSA, The PAtriot Act and the sort... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Point well taken, sort of. The trouble is that a secular-humanist mind set has been imposed on Americans, largely through the public school system and backed by the political left. These people refuse to accept human nature, with it's God-created limitations, and instead believe that any problem can be controlled, prevented, or eliminated through legislation. The result is the erosion of freedom, as new crimes are invented and it becomes illegal for you to do things you were previously free to do. In the wake of 9/11, the Bush administration (already being criticized for failing to prevent the attacks) was under pressure to "do something." The people criticizing "conservs" for supporting such ill-conceived and hastily implemented nonsense such as the TSA and the Patriot Act are the same people who would have accused Republicans of "not caring" if they had refused to take such actions. This is the same mentality that drives many DZ's to require AAD's, and/or prohibit the use of older equipment which is perfectly airworthy (such as rigs with belly bands), rather than allowing their customers to exercise freedom of choice and take responsibility for their own actions. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
