Ron 10 #1 February 28, 2005 Im surprized this didn't get posted. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/tx.town.square.shootings.ap/index.html QuoteTYLER, Texas (AP) -- A man angry about being sued for unpaid child support opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle outside a courthouse, killing his ex-wife and a man trying to help the couple's adult son. The gunman, 43-year-old David Hernandez Arroyo Sr., was killed Thursday afternoon in a gun battle with officers a few miles away after wounding his son and three law enforcement officers, one critically. The son had been acting as a mediator between his parents, police said. Police estimated that Arroyo, who had a history of spousal abuse and weapons violations, shot 50 rounds in the historic town square. He was wearing a military flak jacket and a bulletproof vest. "He definitely came well-armed and prepared," police Chief Gary Swindle said. "We do understand there had been some threats made by him the previous week." But the attorney representing Maribel Estrada, 41, said he doesn't believe she thought her ex-husband was dangerous. Estrada worked at a meat packing plant in Tyler and raised a 17-year-old and a 6-year-old with the help of her eldest son, Joshua Wintters said. The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds. A sheriff's deputy, Sherman Dollison, 28, was in critical condition after being shot in the liver, lungs and legs; a sheriff's lieutenant and a Tyler police detective were treated and released. "One of the deputies at the scene said if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson," said Sheriff J.B. Smith, "the son would be dead." Friends who visited the son in the hospital Thursday night said he told them that his father was always open about having a collection of weapons. Aurea Seanez said the son told them, "And look now, he used them on us." Wilson, a gun enthusiast who once owned a shooting range, intervened after Arroyo killed his ex-wife, witnesses said. Swindle, the police chief, said Wilson shot at Arroyo several times but his rounds weren't penetrating the armor. "They traded shots, missing each other, and then the gunman hit Wilson and Wilson went down," Tyler Morning Telegraph publisher Nelson Clyde III said in Friday's editions of the newspaper. Clyde watched the shooting from a nearby restaurant. "The gunman walked up to Wilson and shot him while he was on the ground," Clyde said. "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was sickening." Leave it to CNN to spin it that way. Little mention of the CCP holder that risked (and lost) his life to save others...AND NO talk about the other CCP that lead police to the gunman. A man who saw this grabbed his firearm, but instead of using it followed the gunman...He then called police and lead them to the man as he drove away in his truck. Two heros."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 28, 2005 QuoteLittle mention of the CCP holder that risked (and lost) his life to save others...AND NO talk about the other CCP that lead police to the gunman. Yup, I noticed that too. Atleast most of the TX news agencies are noting this fact, but then again in TX we know what sort of people get CHL. Those guys are definately heros and there's a kid alive today because of it. The media will never say that due to an armed man a kid was saved from a mentally unstable man.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #3 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteLittle mention of the CCP holder that risked (and lost) his life to save others...AND NO talk about the other CCP that lead police to the gunman. Yup, I noticed that too. Atleast most of the TX news agencies are noting this fact, but then again in TX we know what sort of people get CHL. Those guys are definately heros and there's a kid alive today because of it. The media will never say that due to an armed man a kid was saved from a mentally unstable man. Funny, when I read it I saw this: "The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds." Maybe you skipped over that part in your rush to smear CNN.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteLittle mention of the CCP holder that risked (and lost) his life to save others...AND NO talk about the other CCP that lead police to the gunman. Yup, I noticed that too. Atleast most of the TX news agencies are noting this fact, but then again in TX we know what sort of people get CHL. Those guys are definately heros and there's a kid alive today because of it. The media will never say that due to an armed man a kid was saved from a mentally unstable man. Funny, when I read it I saw this: "The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds." Maybe you skipped over that part in your rush to smear CNN. Or maybe he noted that CNN conveniently left out the part about the deceased being a CHL holder?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 February 28, 2005 QuoteFunny, when I read it I saw this: "The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds." Maybe you skipped over that part in your rush to smear CNN. Sure, they say that, BUT they won't say how he saved the life of the kid. They won't state the facts about how this is another clear example of good coming from the CHL programs all around the country (in 35 different states). Posting a simple fact about CNN isn't smearing CNN, its a fact.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #6 February 28, 2005 QuoteFunny, when I read it I saw this: "The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds." Maybe you skipped over that part in your rush to smear CNN. Maybe you didn't know that there were TWO CWP holders involved...One was shot by Arroyo Sr....The other was not mentioned int he artical by CNN. One was going to engage, but instead followed the suspect and directed police to the suspect. CNN did not bother to report that part. QuoteWitness Ron Martell, a military veteran who watched the killing spree, trailed the fleeing suspect and pointed him out to police. "At first, I couldn't believe it," he said. "I watched the suspect shoot that guy at least seven times. Then he got into his truck and casually drove away. I followed him." Martell also had a CHL and a weapon with him."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #7 February 28, 2005 QuoteLeave it to CNN to spin it that way. Read the feed line again. It was from the AP. They cannot change the story, just refeed it. No spin from CNN._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #8 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteLeave it to CNN to spin it that way. Read the feed line again. It was from the AP. They cannot change the story, just refeed it. No spin from CNN. They won't change it, but what's stopping them from leaving parts out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #9 February 28, 2005 Search CNN they had ONE story on it...It does not mention anything about Ron Martell. CNN has no follow up and there have been several other stories about it. CNN got what it wanted when it printed this: "He definitely came well-armed and prepared," police Chief Gary Swindle said. And this: Friends who visited the son in the hospital Thursday night said he told them that his father was always open about having a collection of weapons. Aurea Seanez said the son told them, "And look now, he used them on us.""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #10 February 28, 2005 QuoteSearch CNN they had ONE story on it...It does not mention anything about Ron Martell. CNN has no follow up and there have been several other stories about it. CNN got what it wanted when it printed this: "He definitely came well-armed and prepared," police Chief Gary Swindle said. And this: Friends who visited the son in the hospital Thursday night said he told them that his father was always open about having a collection of weapons. Aurea Seanez said the son told them, "And look now, he used them on us." It looks like CNN is putting none of its staff on this - which means they have to rely on the AP for updates. The AP is strict about refeeding their stories - the updates and the original cannot be altered by your news source. So, CNN is reporting it from one of their outside sources and you still are looking for a way to spin this into an anti-CNN story? The content of the article isn't from CNN. Your complaints would be valid if they were directed towards the AP (btw, Fox News uses them as well) or if CNN choose not to cover the story at all._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #11 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteLeave it to CNN to spin it that way. Read the feed line again. It was from the AP. They cannot change the story, just refeed it. No spin from CNN. They won't change it, but what's stopping them from leaving parts out? You can't do that. Ever notice that the AP stories are the same no matter where you read them? One of the agreements when you carry something from the AP. I know this because I got in trouble for it while I was reporting the news._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #12 February 28, 2005 Quote Leave it to the AP reporter to spin it that way. Ok, I fixed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #13 February 28, 2005 Two questions: first, what is a CHL? I'm trying to figure out the difference between the CHL and a CWP. Second, why is it relevant that the second guy also had a CWP? QuoteMaybe you didn't know that there were TWO CWP holders involved...One was shot by Arroyo Sr....The other was not mentioned int he artical by CNN. One was going to engage, but instead followed the suspect and directed police to the suspect. CNN did not bother to report that part. Quote Witness Ron Martell, a military veteran who watched the killing spree, trailed the fleeing suspect and pointed him out to police. "At first, I couldn't believe it," he said. "I watched the suspect shoot that guy at least seven times. Then he got into his truck and casually drove away. I followed him." I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #14 February 28, 2005 QuoteTwo questions: first, what is a CHL? I'm trying to figure out the difference between the CHL and a CWP. Same thing. CHL = Concealed Handgun License CWP = Concealed Weapons Permit. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #15 February 28, 2005 Quotefirst, what is a CHL? I'm trying to figure out the difference between the CHL and a CWP. The State. In FL it is a CWP Concealed Weapons Permit...I *think* in TX they call it a Concealed Handgun License. QuoteSecond, why is it relevant that the second guy also had a CWP? Because all the anti gunners always claim that if a guy has a gun he will jump to use it...This guy could have gotten into a shootout, but instead used his head an directed the police to the guy. So much for the image of a lunatic trying to be the law and reruns of the OK corral. Two guys both licensed to carry did the correct thing in this case. One died doing the right thing. Both are heros, and both show yet again that legal gun carry is a good thing."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 February 28, 2005 QuoteThe State. In FL it is a CWP Concealed Weapons Permit...I *think* in TX they call it a Concealed Handgun License. DING we have a winner. Whats very nice is you can carry in FL or TX with the FL or TX CWP or CHL. Its like that in a LOT of states. Very handy on road trips.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #17 February 28, 2005 Ahh... that makes sense... Thanks for clarifying One more question, did the guy who went nuts have a gun license (and or a CWP) too? I agree that both of the other men acted courageously (sp) and correctly and set an example of what a responsible gun owner should do in certain situations.I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #18 February 28, 2005 QuoteOne more question, did the guy who went nuts have a gun license (and or a CWP) too? QuotePolice estimated that Arroyo, who had a history of spousal abuse and weapons violations Domestic abuse or prior weapons violations would prevent someone from getting a CWP. If you had one they would revoke it. Arroyo had a history, but no felony convitions. I read a story where he did not have one..But I can't find it now to link to it....I'll keep looking. Here in FL if you have a domestic battery, you can not get a CWP."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #19 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuotePolice estimated that Arroyo, who had a history of spousal abuse and weapons violations In fact there is a federal law that says that if you are convicted of domestic violence, even as a misdemeanor, then you are forbidden from ever again owning or touching a gun. Given these two things together, spousal abuse and weapons violations, the police should have confiscated his guns a long time ago. Once again it's a case of; we don't need new gun laws, we just need the old gun laws enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #20 February 28, 2005 QuoteA sheriff's deputy, Sherman Dollison, 28, was in critical condition after being shot in the liver, lungs and legs; Stay in the fight dude! Good job._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #21 February 28, 2005 QuoteIn fact there is a federal law that says that if you are convicted of domestic violence, even as a misdemeanor, then you are forbidden from ever again owning or touching a gun. Thanks, I did not know it was Federal... I do remember when I joined the Army I had to have a criminal background check and they warned me that if Iha devery had a Domestic violence charge I would not have been able to enlist. They said they lost a lot of folks due to that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 March 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteIn fact there is a federal law that says that if you are convicted of domestic violence, even as a misdemeanor, then you are forbidden from ever again owning or touching a gun. Thanks, I did not know it was Federal... I do remember when I joined the Army I had to have a criminal background check and they warned me that if Iha devery had a Domestic violence charge I would not have been able to enlist. They said they lost a lot of folks due to that. Yep, and a lot of cops lost their jobs too when that law was enacted. And it was made retroactive for any past conviction, before the law was enacted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #23 March 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteFunny, when I read it I saw this: "The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds." Maybe you skipped over that part in your rush to smear CNN. Maybe you didn't know that there were TWO CWP holders involved...One was shot by Arroyo Sr....The other was not mentioned int he artical by CNN. One was going to engage, but instead followed the suspect and directed police to the suspect. CNN did not bother to report that part. QuoteWitness Ron Martell, a military veteran who watched the killing spree, trailed the fleeing suspect and pointed him out to police. "At first, I couldn't believe it," he said. "I watched the suspect shoot that guy at least seven times. Then he got into his truck and casually drove away. I followed him." Martell also had a CHL and a weapon with him. So what? Did they report his religion, ethnicity, hair color, mother's marital status or education level either? Why should his CHL status be any different? You're just oversensitive.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #24 March 1, 2005 Fucking gun nuts!... Kidding. Just kidding! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #25 March 1, 2005 QuoteSo what? Did they report his religion, ethnicity, hair color, mother's marital status or education level either? Why should his CHL status be any different? You're just oversensitive. Well dear DR. It goes to show that when the anti gun crowd claims that anyone with a CWP is looking for a fight and a chance to use it is talking out of their ass. It also goes to show that new gun laws are not needed, whats needed is to enforce the ones already on the books. It also shows that CWP holders are not the danger. Of course, I don't expect you to agree."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
