Abortion (thread split from Canadian hunting thread)

[kallend 2,027]

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Bill, they are trying to pass a Life at Conception Act in the US.

Does that mean a fetus will get a social security number and be a tax deduction?

Until that happens, I don't accept a fetus as a member of society with the same rights as those that have been "delivered" into society by the mother.

As a father of four, I also do not believe men have any say in how a pregnancy proceeds until men get pregnant themselves.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Darius11 12]

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What your "God" tells you should not affect others' lives.

I agree with this 100%
I believe in God and have my own religious beliefs, but I would never force them on to anyone not even if I had kids.

Morality is a choice made for and by each person. You can not and should not force your religion on to any one.

That’s part of what makes America great.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Steel 0]

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I'm with you. I think we've got our priorities way out of whack whining and moaning over a bunch of baby seals when shit like this has been going on.

Partial Birth Abortion

You know I think I am starting to see the light. Alcohol related deaths are less than 150K/yearly, nicotene related ones are over 500K/yearly. I propose we abolish the drinking age and any law related to driving while intoxicated. After all cigarettes are what we should be worrying about.
Oh and from now on safety day should only talk about how to avoid no pull/low pull situations. That is still the most common killer in skydiving (by plurality) so we should be concerned with nothing else.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[gjhdiver 0]

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I dont care the slightest about the "constitutional rights"

Spoken like a true christian there Bill.

Sorry, but our constitution trumps your superstition. Your imaginary friend has less rights than your beloved zygotes.

Don't feel too bad though. There's plenty of evidence that a fetus whose brains are sucked out can go on to live a full and happy life as a religious fundamentalist.

[gjhdiver 0]

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I wouldn't be too worried. What does Mr Cole control?

Nothing. Not even his bowels if the content of his posts is anything to go by. The anger in his posts is a direct result of that powerlessness.

I used to feel a ceratin amount of empathy for that sort of person, but after you've met the nth angry zealot (where n is a large integer), they all sort of merge into one sorry and unhappy mess of repressed desire and self-righteous anger.

Best leave them to scream at the wind.

[pajarito 0]

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Newsflash:

Thanks for the newsflash. I needed that.

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Those of us who support Roe v. Wade know what the procedures are.

How do you figure? Do you speak for everyone who supports Roe vs. Wade? I think a bunch more people would change their minds about the procedure if more of them were educated better on what’s involved with it. (e.g. It’s much harder to “pull the trigger” when you’ve got to look the person in the eyes first.)

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The goal for abortion is to make it safe and rare.

Bullshit. The goal for abortion is to kill babies and to eliminate responsibility.

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Believe it or not, religious zealotry hurts the Anti-Choice cause.
Some of your zealot bretheren would criminalize the Pill, condoms, Depo-provera, etc....
Why the hell should your dogma affect someone else's body?
What your "God" tells you should not affect others' lives.

I didn’t bring religion into this at all. You did. It’s not needed to demonstrate why this is wrong.

[rickjump1 0]

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Bill, they are trying to pass a Life at Conception Act in the US.

Does that mean a fetus will get a social security number and be a tax deduction?

Until that happens, I don't accept a fetus as a member of society with the same rights as those that have been "delivered" into society by the mother.

As a father of four, I also do not believe men have any say in how a pregnancy proceeds until men get pregnant themselves.

Obviously, you don't think the unborn are entitled to the right to life guaranteed to all persons. I can see there is no argument here.
As a father of four, can you honestly tell your children, "It's a good thing mommy loves you, otherwise I would have sat idly by if she wanted to kill each of you before you were born".

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Bullshit. The goal for abortion is to kill babies and to eliminate responsibility.

Really ? Wow. Thanks for solving what I thought was an extremely complicated and difficult subject with one sentence. Now we can all move on.

I guess once you've suspended rational thought to the point that religion makes sense, all of the other hard stuff gets easy.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Bill, they are trying to pass a Life at Conception Act in the US.

Does that mean a fetus will get a social security number and be a tax deduction?

Until that happens, I don't accept a fetus as a member of society with the same rights as those that have been "delivered" into society by the mother.

As a father of four, I also do not believe men have any say in how a pregnancy proceeds until men get pregnant themselves.

Obviously, you don't think the unborn are entitled to the right to life guaranteed to all persons. I can see there is no argument here.
As a father of four, can you honestly tell your children, "It's a good thing mommy loves you, otherwise I would have sat idly by if she wanted to kill each of you before you were born".

Yes, yolu should always tell your children things like this. Wonders for the self esteem.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Bullshit. The goal for abortion is to kill babies and to eliminate responsibility.

Responsibility. First, I agree that partial birth abortion is wong. If you cannot decide by the third trimester to terminate, you should have the child and put it up for adoption. However, what about rape? Incest? Life threatening situations?

Using abortion as a means of birth control is not right, but I believe there are circumstances where abortion is needed.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Obviously, you don't think the unborn are entitled to the right to life guaranteed to all persons.

I love this. Try to compete the sentence correctly. "All persons BORN etc etc" Funny how the anti choice brigade forget to add the full quote.

Nope. Zygotes and fetuses don't get rights that trump already born people. Sorry. Better luck next time on the wheel of life spermy. it could be worse, you could end up in a sport sock next time around.

Ever notice that in life, like this thread, all of the most vociferous anti choicers are male ? Still trying to get women back in the kitchen where they belong I suppose.

I think I'll bug out of this thread now. Arguing with religious nutjobs is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It makes you look daft and just aggravates the pig.

[pajarito 0]

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I think I'll bug out of this thread now. Arguing with religious nutjobs is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It makes you look daft and just aggravates the pig.

You need to watch your mouth with the personal attacks. It shows a lack in tact and ability on your part.

Drunkmonkey said:

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The goal of abortion is to make is safe and rare.

I said:

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The goal of abortion is to kill babies and to eliminate responsibility.

Why don’t you add your rational thought and obviously superior intellect to the discussion and tell us all what you think abortion is fundamentally about.

[pajarito 0]

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Responsibility. First, I agree that partial birth abortion is wong. If you cannot decide by the third trimester to terminate, you should have the child and put it up for adoption. However, what about rape? Incest? Life threatening situations?

Using abortion as a means of birth control is not right, but I believe there are circumstances where abortion is needed.

Of course there are exceptions. Some people's "exceptions" are broader in scope than mine, however, I do recognize the need. My wife is an OB/GYN Physician. She performs D & C's and gives medications that induce abortion but only in cases where the mother's life is significantly threatened and it's always very early in the pregnancy. A doctor has to make those decisions. We have to do the best we can while still preserving a culture of life.

[pajarito 0]

You're not going to break it down for us gjhdiver? How disappointing.

[kallend 2,027]

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Bill, they are trying to pass a Life at Conception Act in the US.

Does that mean a fetus will get a social security number and be a tax deduction?

Until that happens, I don't accept a fetus as a member of society with the same rights as those that have been "delivered" into society by the mother.

As a father of four, I also do not believe men have any say in how a pregnancy proceeds until men get pregnant themselves.

Obviously, you don't think the unborn are entitled to the right to life guaranteed to all persons. I can see there is no argument here.
As a father of four, can you honestly tell your children, "It's a good thing mommy loves you, otherwise I would have sat idly by if she wanted to kill each of you before you were born".

I don't believe the unborn are persons with rights that trump those of the born. Maybe I'll change my mind when the IRS recognizes them.

I believe the word "deliver" accurately describes the introduction of a new person into society by its mother. Until the mother delivers, it is hers and not society's.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Shotgun 1]

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I believe the word "deliver" accurately describes the introduction of a new person into society by its mother. Until the mother delivers, it is hers and not society's.

Do you think that partial birth abortions would fall into the category of having been "delivered"?

[GTAVercetti 0]

kallend, this is not to you directly, just using your reply button.

I am not even sure why we are still in this thread. I am fairly certain that in the history of the internet, no one on either side has ever had their belief on abortion swayed by a bulletin board post.


But I could be wrong.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[pajarito 0]

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I am not even sure why we are still in this thread. I am fairly certain that in the history of the internet, no one on either side has ever had their belief on abortion swayed by a bulletin board post.

You're right. Mine was swayed by having children.

[Shotgun 1]

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kallend, this is not to you directly, just using your reply button.

I'm not kallend.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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kallend, this is not to you directly, just using your reply button.

I'm not kallend.

Yeah, oops.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 2,991]

>I'm not kallend.

Thank god!

[aerohaga 0]

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Obviously, you don't think the unborn are entitled to the right to life guaranteed to all persons.

I love this. Try to compete the sentence correctly. "All persons BORN etc etc" Funny how the anti choice brigade forget to add the full quote.
If I'm "anti-choice", does that make you "anti-life"?

Nope. Zygotes and fetuses don't get rights that trump already born people. Sorry. Better luck next time on the wheel of life spermy. it could be worse, you could end up in a sport sock next time around.

Ever notice that in life, like this thread, all of the most vociferous anti choicers are male ? Still trying to get women back in the kitchen where they belong I suppose.
It looks to me like most posters of this thread are male. And I don't think pro-life men are trying to keep me in the kitchen. They just care about babies-born and unborn.

I think I'll bug out of this thread now. Arguing with religious nutjobs is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It makes you look daft and just aggravates the pig.
I prefer the term "religious fanatic"-it's so much more politically correct.

For my part, I know nothing with any certainty,
But the sight of the stars makes me dream.
-Vincent Van Gogh

[GTAVercetti 0]

Well.

That was confusing.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Well.

That was confusing.

I agree. I have no idea of what that person is trying to say. Mind you, at least it was drivel in bold type.

[gjhdiver 0]

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I think I'll bug out of this thread now. Arguing with religious nutjobs is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It makes you look daft and just aggravates the pig.

You need to watch your mouth with the personal attacks. It shows a lack in tact and ability on your part.

It's not a personal attack, it's an observation. You'll notice that the moderators left it intact. Now look up the word "projection"

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything here. It's a waste of time. It's just fun to throw rocks at slow moving targets from time to time, and there's certainly some lumbering around this thread.