Ron 10 #226 March 28, 2005 Quotedon't you have a pedestal to go and stand on somewhere Ron? Wow, now you are starting with the personal attacks... Nice one."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #227 March 28, 2005 how is that a personal attack Ron. Just suggesting that throwing the first stone may not always be a great idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #228 March 28, 2005 Guys (I took the names off attribution), the only thing less attractive than yelling "personal attack" is the person saying crap that really probably is a personal attack. If I were a moderator ( NFW) I'd be saying warning-type stuff. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #229 March 28, 2005 > how is that a personal attack Ron. It was a personal attack. As always, attack the idea, not the poster. Please remember this in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #230 March 28, 2005 Quotehow is that a personal attack Ron. Just suggesting that throwing the first stone may not always be a great idea. And by doing so, threw a stone of your own. Thats really funny."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #231 March 28, 2005 QuoteIt seems that perhaps there are abandonment issues here that are tripping your emotional trigger on this issue. I resent your remarks and think that if anything...your ASSumptions have lead me to believe that you have some issues yourself......You are quite funny...sounds to me like you don't like to hear that your little friends are being questioned in terms of their medical opinions......And I am the one who has issues?!?! Quote Now, I've never met any of the principals here, but I have known and worked with four of the docs directly involved in the case here in St Pete. Good to know...at least you were honest before making stupid comments...~R+R...And next time you want to make such comments send them in a PM...And then I will do the same...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #232 March 28, 2005 Quote>It's pretty sad that a bunch of politically motivated people including you Bill . . . Actually, from the beginning my position has been to allow this couple to make their own decisions, rather than have the US government step in and decide what is best for them. It is unfortunate that so many politicians have used this as a political bandstand. I agree, it's a disgrace, hopefully the cynics will be caught in their lies some day. You haven't merely supported Terri's right to die with dignity, you've opportunistically attacked Jeb Bush preemptively as a law breaker. "who better to go to". Quote >You've accused Bush of breaking the law and even your own quote >demonstrates he's attempted no such thing. He attempted to grab her in defiance of a court order due to a loophole in the law. Ahh... one of them loopholes that would have made his actions perfectly legal, specifically his right to halt an order while it was being appealed. That's hardly a minor technicality or loophole. It's a fundamental right and if you think about it makes sense, if something's under appeal and she dies it's a bit late to undo the damage shoudl he win on appeal. Funny how you call a law a loophole when you don't like it's legal application by the guy, even calling him a criminal. I guess Jeb should apply only the laws you approve of when you approve of them to stay on the straight and narrow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #233 March 28, 2005 >That's hardly a minor technicality or loophole. It's a fundamental right . . . Would you have supported what J Bush attempted to do i.e. take Teri Schiavo into custody to prevent her husband from executing her final wishes? >I guess Jeb should apply only the laws you approve of . . . Yes. I support politicians who make what I consider good decisions, and I am generally opposed to politicians who make boneheaded decisions. In this case J Bush made a boneheaded decision. Perhaps he will now realize that he was wrong and will not attempt any further meddling with this family. If that's the case, good for him. Time will tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #234 March 28, 2005 Quote>That's hardly a minor technicality or loophole. It's a fundamental right . . . Would you have supported what J Bush attempted to do i.e. take Teri Schiavo into custody to prevent her husband from executing her final wishes? >I guess Jeb should apply only the laws you approve of . . . Yes. I support politicians who make what I consider good decisions, and I am generally opposed to politicians who make boneheaded decisions. In this case J Bush made a boneheaded decision. Perhaps he will now realize that he was wrong and will not attempt any further meddling with this family. If that's the case, good for him. Time will tell. I DON'T support what Jeb is doing, in fact I object to it, same with some idiotic politicians & pundits, that doesn't make Jeb a criminal. Your accusation remember. If you don't like Florida law then I recommend you move there and vote for change instead of making accusations of criminal wrongdoing because you hate the guys brother. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Jeb get's hoist by own pitard for not acting, he's getting squeezed by some of his base in Florida and he only has himself to blame for interfering in the first place, but there were times when the case being made by Terri's family was very persuasive, they've heaped scorn on the husband to save the daughter and if that's all you hear you're inclined to side for sustaining her. If there's any suspicion it would be that impotently sending the state troopers to the hospital to do nothing was a ploy to make it look like he did something, but that's in my more cynical moments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #235 March 28, 2005 Only thing i have to add to this is it's not an execution - it's Darwinism Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #236 March 28, 2005 Interesting how DeLay seems to have two standards; One for himself, and one for everyone else: http://www.latimes.com/la-na-delay27mar27,0,486976.story"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #237 March 28, 2005 QuoteInteresting how DeLay seems to have two standards; One for himself, and one for everyone else: http://www.latimes.com/la-na-delay27mar27,0,486976.story I've been waiting for someone to bring this up. Pulling the plug is good enough for DeLay and his family unless he can score political points by being against it. Now for everyone who says a feeding tube is different from a ventilator, have at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
321seeya 0 #238 March 28, 2005 I Like Marshmellows and racecar driving, motorcycles and Planes.... Thank You BASE 3:16 - Even if you are about to land on a cop - DONT FORGET TO FLARE! Free the soul -- DJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #239 March 28, 2005 QuoteIt seems that perhaps there are abandonment issues here that are tripping your emotional trigger on this issue. I generally find it to be good practice to at least meet a person before throwing out absurd psychological diagnoses.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyclearjohn 0 #240 March 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt seems that perhaps there are abandonment issues here that are tripping your emotional trigger on this issue. I resent your remarks and think that if anything...your ASSumptions have lead me to believe that you have some issues yourself......You are quite funny...sounds to me like you don't like to hear that your little friends are being questioned in terms of their medical opinions......And I am the one who has issues?!?! Quote Now, I've never met any of the principals here, but I have known and worked with four of the docs directly involved in the case here in St Pete. Good to know...at least you were honest before making stupid comments...~R+R...And next time you want to make such comments send them in a PM...And then I will do the same... The professionals entrusted to evaluate and treat Terri were unanimous in their opinions of her medical condition. The four I was acquainted with were also unanimous in their feelings her husband stood by his wife and was assertive in promoting her recovery for seven years. The special master appointed by the court to oversee Terri's treatment stated that all allegations of misconduct/unethical behavior on the part of her husband were thoroughly investigated and found to be without merit. In the absence of facts supporting your seemingly emotional attack on her husband, I had to assume that there were other issues driving your opinion of his 'abandonment' of his wife. My assumption of abandonment issues was merely a guess based on available evidence and intended to be neither abusive nor disrespectful to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #241 March 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteInteresting how DeLay seems to have two standards; One for himself, and one for everyone else: http://www.latimes.com/la-na-delay27mar27,0,486976.story I've been waiting for someone to bring this up. Pulling the plug is good enough for DeLay and his family unless he can score political points by being against it. Now for everyone who says a feeding tube is different from a ventilator, have at it. With DeLay you had agreement within the family, with Terri you have her entire family insisting she be kept alive and you have the husband who wants to pull the tube. That presents a tragic dilema. The situation is entirely different. If there is a split of opinion if is mainly due to this internal conflict for most people, not over any absolute right to be allowed to die a natural death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyclearjohn 0 #242 March 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt seems that perhaps there are abandonment issues here that are tripping your emotional trigger on this issue. I generally find it to be good practice to at least meet a person before throwing out absurd psychological diagnoses. Damn, it's not like I made any comments concerning phallic fixation and guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #243 March 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteI generally find it to be good practice to at least meet a person before throwing out absurd psychological diagnoses./reply] Damn, it's not like I made any comments concerning phallic fixation and guns. Well, she is my girlfriend, and I do like guns, but I don't see how that has any bearing on the situation. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckbrown 0 #244 March 28, 2005 You're right it's a family issue, not one for the Congress or the President to get involved in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #245 March 29, 2005 Like you, I have watched this on the news for 15 years. Last Friday, the neurologist showed the normal-brain vs. Teris-brain photos. The difference was astonishing. There is no "executing Teri". "Teri" has not existed for some time. Teri is already dead. If I cut off my arm, there is probably a medical method to keep my arm tissue alive with no brain functioning. In Teri's case, it is the whole body. I truly feel for her parents and the heartache that they have had to deal with. No parent wants their children to die before them. Everyone involved needs to bring this to a close and move on with their lives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,590 #246 March 29, 2005 And it looks like Bush may have a couple different standards as well: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #247 March 29, 2005 QuoteAnd it looks like Bush may have a couple different standards as well: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html Yes, it seems Bush is all over the place with this topic. Bush has no moral compass. From what was being talked about in the news he passed this law because the insurance companies came to him and lobbied for it. The idea was that once insurance companies refused to cover care any more it would give Drs legal ccoverage to remove life support without fear of lawsuit. Once again he goes where the money is. (sorry if repeat, a lot of useless PA's started to happen so I skipped over a few pages) http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002215324_texaslaw22.html As governor, Bush signed right-to-die law WASHINGTON — The federal law that President Bush signed early yesterday in an effort to prolong Terri Schiavo's life appears to contradict a right-to-die law that he signed as Texas governor, prompting cries of hypocrisy from congressional Democrats and some bioethicists. In 1999, then-Gov. Bush signed the Advance Directives Act, which lets a patient's surrogate make life-ending decisions on his or her behalf. The measure also allows Texas hospitals to disconnect patients from life-sustaining systems if a physician, in consultation with a hospital bioethics committee, concludes that the patient's condition is hopeless. While Congress and the White House were considering legislation recently in the Schiavo case, the Texas law faced its first high-profile test. With the permission of a judge, a Houston hospital cut off life support for a badly deformed 6-month-old baby last week against his mother's wishes after doctors determined that continuing life support would be futile. The baby died almost immediately. "The mother down in Texas must be reading the Schiavo case and scratching her head," said Dr. Howard Brody, the director of Michigan State University's Center for Ethics and Humanities in the Life Sciences. "This does appear to be a contradiction."_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HeatherB 0 #248 March 30, 2005 Interesting article about the whether or not Terri is feeling pain: http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=753&thePhoto=Today's&CatName=&CID= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #249 March 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote The law places a marital relationship ahead of parent/child relationship, but I know if I one of my daughters was married and something like this happened, I'd be holding out to keep her alive. If the loving husband couldn't see his way clear to a divorce, I might make a few discreet inquiries about ending HIS life instead of my daughter's. That's a very good point I never thought of. But in this case, it's not the husband making the decision. He petitioned the court to make a decision, and the court decided. The court based its decision only in part on the husband's testimony. nathaniel Couldn't her parents file for divorce for her do to the fact that he wants her dead? I think that would be pretty good grounds for granting a divorce. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #250 March 30, 2005 Quote Couldn't her parents file for divorce for her do to the fact that he wants her dead? I think that would be pretty good grounds for granting a divorce. Judy Don't think they didn't already try. They have no legal standing to do so, only she can do that, and she died 15 years ago for all intents and purposes. They just want to stuff and mount her body basically, and in their grief, they are being manipulated by Christian thugs like Randall Terry. Those asshats will move on to the next high profile photo opportunity after she dies, and leave her parents empty and broken. 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chuckbrown 0 #244 March 28, 2005 You're right it's a family issue, not one for the Congress or the President to get involved in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #245 March 29, 2005 Like you, I have watched this on the news for 15 years. Last Friday, the neurologist showed the normal-brain vs. Teris-brain photos. The difference was astonishing. There is no "executing Teri". "Teri" has not existed for some time. Teri is already dead. If I cut off my arm, there is probably a medical method to keep my arm tissue alive with no brain functioning. In Teri's case, it is the whole body. I truly feel for her parents and the heartache that they have had to deal with. No parent wants their children to die before them. Everyone involved needs to bring this to a close and move on with their lives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #246 March 29, 2005 And it looks like Bush may have a couple different standards as well: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #247 March 29, 2005 QuoteAnd it looks like Bush may have a couple different standards as well: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html Yes, it seems Bush is all over the place with this topic. Bush has no moral compass. From what was being talked about in the news he passed this law because the insurance companies came to him and lobbied for it. The idea was that once insurance companies refused to cover care any more it would give Drs legal ccoverage to remove life support without fear of lawsuit. Once again he goes where the money is. (sorry if repeat, a lot of useless PA's started to happen so I skipped over a few pages) http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002215324_texaslaw22.html As governor, Bush signed right-to-die law WASHINGTON — The federal law that President Bush signed early yesterday in an effort to prolong Terri Schiavo's life appears to contradict a right-to-die law that he signed as Texas governor, prompting cries of hypocrisy from congressional Democrats and some bioethicists. In 1999, then-Gov. Bush signed the Advance Directives Act, which lets a patient's surrogate make life-ending decisions on his or her behalf. The measure also allows Texas hospitals to disconnect patients from life-sustaining systems if a physician, in consultation with a hospital bioethics committee, concludes that the patient's condition is hopeless. While Congress and the White House were considering legislation recently in the Schiavo case, the Texas law faced its first high-profile test. With the permission of a judge, a Houston hospital cut off life support for a badly deformed 6-month-old baby last week against his mother's wishes after doctors determined that continuing life support would be futile. The baby died almost immediately. "The mother down in Texas must be reading the Schiavo case and scratching her head," said Dr. Howard Brody, the director of Michigan State University's Center for Ethics and Humanities in the Life Sciences. "This does appear to be a contradiction."_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeatherB 0 #248 March 30, 2005 Interesting article about the whether or not Terri is feeling pain: http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=753&thePhoto=Today's&CatName=&CID= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #249 March 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote The law places a marital relationship ahead of parent/child relationship, but I know if I one of my daughters was married and something like this happened, I'd be holding out to keep her alive. If the loving husband couldn't see his way clear to a divorce, I might make a few discreet inquiries about ending HIS life instead of my daughter's. That's a very good point I never thought of. But in this case, it's not the husband making the decision. He petitioned the court to make a decision, and the court decided. The court based its decision only in part on the husband's testimony. nathaniel Couldn't her parents file for divorce for her do to the fact that he wants her dead? I think that would be pretty good grounds for granting a divorce. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #250 March 30, 2005 Quote Couldn't her parents file for divorce for her do to the fact that he wants her dead? I think that would be pretty good grounds for granting a divorce. Judy Don't think they didn't already try. They have no legal standing to do so, only she can do that, and she died 15 years ago for all intents and purposes. They just want to stuff and mount her body basically, and in their grief, they are being manipulated by Christian thugs like Randall Terry. Those asshats will move on to the next high profile photo opportunity after she dies, and leave her parents empty and broken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
