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QuoteI don't want metal detectors (outside urban gang-banging areas),
Laurie Dann proved that it could happen in any neighborhood. Look up what happened in Winnetka, IL back in May 1988. I promise you that Winnetka is as far removed from urban gang ridden areas.
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
QuoteQuoteI don't want metal detectors (outside urban gang-banging areas),
Laurie Dann proved that it could happen in any neighborhood. Look up what happened in Winnetka, IL back in May 1988. I promise you that Winnetka is as far removed from urban gang ridden areas.
...Just full of pampered white kids who think they're urban ghetto thugs. Snoop Doggy Trevor.
Ladybug 0
***QuoteOK, so which rock/rap band, or video game, or movie or TV show will this be blamed on??
Quote
All of them. Parents need to turn off the #!#!$# TV and send their kids outside. Help them build forts, swing on tireswings; teach them to fish; encourage them to join a team sport or take up karate, swimming, tennis. Encourage them in areas that are healthy. But first and foremost - turn off the TV!
QuoteWhen was the last time you read a story about a kid in the 1800's eary 1900's shooting kids in school? (At that time it was common for kids under 13 to routinely use guns) Society as a whole has failed in the rearing of the younger generation.
Where would you read such a story? Most of what I think is true of the Old West is movie driven fantasy. The true frontier was much less honorable.
While it would seem like these shootings are a recent trend, I have little confidence that it actually is true.
How to prevent these attacks? Not sure you can; they're rare events. Metal detectors won't do the job - you just have an alarm off and now the boy has a sense of urgency. Armed guards - maybe. Less publicity? These losers know that for a week or two the whole country will know their pain. That clearly lead to a few Columbine wannabes.
Or leading off to another common thread here lately, maybe we shouldn't be pumping our kids full of drugs like Prozac and Ritalin? If there really has been an upsurge in homicidal activity, the overprescription of drugs is the first factor I'd look at.
JohnRich 4
QuoteThere aren't enough guns. Once everyone has a gun, gun violence will end. Sort of like our current approach to peace. Once we have enough war, there will be peace everywhere.
Yeah, if we just leave the terrorists alone and let them have safe havens from which to operate, then they'll love us and won't want to kill us any more. And if we just let rampaging shooters alone and let them kill as many schoolchildren as they want, then they'll love us and won't want to kill us any more.
That's a terrific strategy!
JohnRich 4
QuoteThe killer was a "native american neo nazi"
Nah, that can't be the root cause. It's really the NRA's fault. Them and those evil gun manufacturers. Yeah, that's whose to blame!
QuoteNah, that can't be the root cause. It's really the NRA's fault. Them and those evil gun manufacturers. Yeah, that's whose to blame!
Of course guns are NOT the root of the problem in this incident. Whatever up bringing this kid had is what caused him to crack. But guns sure did make the job of killing easier for him and the guns did exactly what they were designed to do. Take human lives. But it was the disturbed kid behind the trigger which needs to be scrutinized, not the tools in which he used. Dang ... it sure would be nice if kids would stop killing each other in schools.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
Kennedy 0
Oh, I'm well aware that horrible crimes happen all over the place, but my point was you don't need metal detectors unless the kids are going at gang warfare and stabbings, etc are a regular occurance (like at some inner city schools before they got detectors and armed guards).
Metal detectors and guards don't stop the random pyscho bent on mass mayhem (though they do make it more like said psycho wil choose another location). You don't treat every day like the worst case scenario, you treat the prevailing conditions and try to prevent and prepare for the bad days.
Metal detectors and guards don't stop the random pyscho bent on mass mayhem (though they do make it more like said psycho wil choose another location). You don't treat every day like the worst case scenario, you treat the prevailing conditions and try to prevent and prepare for the bad days.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Kennedy 0
What's next? We're going to hear about how the next killer is Jewish, but he claimed Nazi leaning too? 
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
I was astounded,needless to say.........
Just when you think you've heard everything
Just when you think you've heard everything
Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004
Quote
You don't treat every day like the worst case scenario
I thought this is what the gun nuts did? After all you never know when a terrorist is going to invade your neighborhood and you will need your AK-47 to take them out. Or you will need your CCW because someone may start a shootout at a concert and you could be the hero!
Quoteyou treat the prevailing conditions and try to prevent and prepare for the bad days.
The condition of shoot outs in schools seems to be happening in middle class white neighborhoods. I have yet to hear of one of these in the inner city. Seems to me the detectors need to be at both locations. Don't profile a school district because the average family income in the area is pretty good or because there is a particular race there.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
steve1 5
I just got back from a staff meeting with our superintendant, principals, and police. I guess there's some fear that it could happen on our reservation. The recent shooting was in another reservation school by a Native American student. Personally I think this is an over-reaction to what happened.
Anyhow this meeting centered around what we could do in our school to better prepare everyone for a "shooter in the school" scenario. Some of the police wanted to do some very realistic training in the school with blanks being fired etc. I don't think I was too popular when I suggested that this might traumatize some of the kids. But it did sound like fun. School this time of year is boring.
At any rate many plans are in the works now to better prepare students and staff for the real thing. I've talked to some former administrators who said it is only a matter of time before a shooting does happen in our school.
Some were saying that this is the first time a Native American student has shot up a school on a reservation. I wonder about that. I was looking into a job in Alaska where a student brought a shotgun to school and shot up some fellow students. Maybe they aren't called reservations up there.....Steve1
Anyhow this meeting centered around what we could do in our school to better prepare everyone for a "shooter in the school" scenario. Some of the police wanted to do some very realistic training in the school with blanks being fired etc. I don't think I was too popular when I suggested that this might traumatize some of the kids. But it did sound like fun. School this time of year is boring.
At any rate many plans are in the works now to better prepare students and staff for the real thing. I've talked to some former administrators who said it is only a matter of time before a shooting does happen in our school.
Some were saying that this is the first time a Native American student has shot up a school on a reservation. I wonder about that. I was looking into a job in Alaska where a student brought a shotgun to school and shot up some fellow students. Maybe they aren't called reservations up there.....Steve1
crozby 0
QuoteNah, that can't be the root cause. It's really the NRA's fault. Them and those evil gun manufacturers. Yeah, that's whose to blame!
Ahhh, you've finally got the hang of that "Support the other side of the argument" game, haven't you?
JohnRich 4
Quoteguns sure did make the job of killing easier for him and the guns did exactly what they were designed to do. Take human lives.
We've been over this "guns are designed to kill" balogna before. Not necessarily true. Apparently you weren't paying attention.
Have you wondered why none of the anti-gun folks haven't been seen screaming on TV about this incident? Answer: because he used a shotgun and a pistol. There were no evil "assault weapons" involved, or .50 caliber rifles, or sniper rifles - it just doesn't help out with the gun-grabber's political agenda...
They did take a generalized stab at it: Brady Bunch Press Release. Notice how none of the things they complain about would have prevented any of their cited shooting incidents...
Quoteit was the disturbed kid behind the trigger which needs to be scrutinized, not the tools in which he used.
There ya' go - now you're back on track in the right direction.
JohnRich 4
QuoteQuote
You don't treat every day like the worst case scenario
I thought this is what the gun nuts did? After all you never know when a terrorist is going to invade your neighborhood and you will need your AK-47 to take them out. Or you will need your CCW because someone may start a shootout at a concert and you could be the hero!
Feel free not to treat every skydive like the worst case scenario. Leave your reserve behind. You wouldn't want to be called a "nut" or something, by always planning for the worst...
Isn't it ironic how some people think that you're a "nut" by having a gun handy to respond to a potential criminal attack, but those same people also think it's perfectly reasonable to always have a reserve parachute handy on every skydive?
You can remove your foot from your mouth now.
QuoteQuoteQuote
You don't treat every day like the worst case scenario
I thought this is what the gun nuts did? After all you never know when a terrorist is going to invade your neighborhood and you will need your AK-47 to take them out. Or you will need your CCW because someone may start a shootout at a concert and you could be the hero!
Feel free not to treat every skydive like the worst case scenario. Leave your reserve behind. You wouldn't want to be called a "nut" or something, by always planning for the worst...
Isn't it ironic how some people think that you're a "nut" by having a gun handy to respond to a potential criminal attack, but those same people also think it's perfectly reasonable to always have a reserve parachute handy on every skydive?
You can remove your foot from your mouth now.
It must suck to have OBL chasing you all the time.
btw - Base jumpers don't have a backup. And there are real hard core stats that show you the worst case scenario can happen on any jump.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
JohnRich 4
QuoteIt must suck to have OBL chasing you all the time.
Just because many people have a gun handy for self defense, doesn't mean that they are paranoid about being the personal target of a terrorist attack. It's more about the common run-of-the-mill street thug. Really, you should get a grip on reality. The way you always portray gun owners in extremist ways like this, doesn't do the credibility of your arguments any good.
QuoteBase jumpers don't have a backup. And there are real hard core stats that show you the worst case scenario can happen on any jump.
That is true. So by comparing yourself to a regular skydiver that wears a backup chute, you are conforming with the same logic a gun owner uses when he carries a firearm for self defense. Now isn't that interesting...
Quote
Just because many people have a gun handy for self defense, doesn't mean that they are paranoid about being the personal target of a terrorist attack. It's more about the common run-of-the-mill street thug. Really, you should get a grip on reality. The way you always portray gun owners in extremist ways like this, doesn't do your credibility any good.
First off, I am a gun owner and shoot trap as a hobby. Second, I live in a city that has a high crime/murder rate and I have never needed a gun for safety. Nor have any of my friends. I live near a high traffic zone, and only a short walk from the nearest high crime low-income projects. Also, I have had a relative murdered by gunshot. Now, what was that about reality?
QuoteThat is true. So by comparing yourself to a regular skydiver that wears a backup chute, you are conforming with the same logic a gun owner uses when he carries a firearm for self defense. Now isn't that interesting...
Let me introduce you to the phrase "apples and oranges."
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
....
Isn't it ironic how some people think that you're a "nut" by having a gun handy to respond to a potential criminal attack, but those same people also think it's perfectly reasonable to always have a reserve parachute handy on every skydive?
...
Isn't it ironic how some people think that you're a "nut" by having a gun handy to respond to a potential criminal attack, but those same people also think it's perfectly reasonable to always have a reserve parachute handy on every skydive?
...
Yep. Gun is handy enough for a free access of any teenage kid going out killing others. That's handy, indeed.
To compare that with the reserve at skydiving, that's "nut". It is perfectly reasonable to skydive with a reserve parachute. Unless I use the lines to throttle the one who just messed up a nice RW jump.
MAO reading such a comparison of a gun lovers' supporter.
BTW:
You consider your normal life as dangerous as a skydive? Well, then I do understand: Always be prepared for the worst case. I prefer to be prepared for a fine jump. Not to be killed by neighbour's gun as his son is freaking out.
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Quote
I thought this is what the gun nuts did?
You thought wrong.
JohnRich 4
QuoteI live in a city that has a high crime/murder rate and I have never needed a gun for safety.
And because it hasn't happened to you yet, therefore no one needs a gun for self defense? You seem to be contradicting your own theory - you admit there is a high crime/murder rate. Therefore, many people might benefit by having a gun for self defense.
QuoteQuoteThat is true. So by comparing yourself to a regular skydiver that wears a backup chute, you are conforming with the same logic a gun owner uses when he carries a firearm for self defense. Now isn't that interesting...
Let me introduce you to the phrase "apples and oranges."
The logic is the same - being prepared for emergencies. You threw out a common phrase, but did nothing to distinguish why the logic with skydiving is any different, thus you've not disproven the contradiction of your opposite positions.
AMax 0
Quoteyet, therefore no one needs a gun for self defense?
If you really believe that your gun can be effectively used for self defense when someone attempts to rob you on parking lot at gun point, you must be a well trained and current combat professional. Ok, you might be, what about the average gun owner? If you really believe that you need this gun to protect your house at night, you should probably keep it close to your bed. A weapon does not do any good when it is locked in a safe, but then it becomes easily accessible for a kid who for whatever reason got pissed off at his classmates.
You may not be that far off.
From the article:
Student Sondra Hegstrom, 17, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that Weise was into goth culture, wore "a big old black trench coat," drew pictures of skeletons, listened to heavy metal music and "talked about death all the time."
A couple of his friends had said he was suicidal, she added, and they said they were watching a movie once when he said, "That would be cool if I shot up the school."
"They didn't think anything of it," Hegstrom said, but "he got terrorized a lot" by others who called him names.
Relatives of Weise told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise's father committed suicide four years ago, and his mother lives in a Minneapolis nursing home because she suffered brain injuries in a car accident, the relatives said.
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
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