Student kills 5 at school and grandparents

[Ron 10]

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Yes, but I have made skydives without an AAD. Are you saying gun owners are device dependant in regards to life?

No, I have gone places without a gun...Oh look I don't have one now.

SOME people might be dependant on a gun to feel safe, just as some skydivers have to have an AAD to skydive.

Some Gun owners might put themselves into more dangerous situations that they might normally avoid, just like some skydivers go on dives since they feel safe with an AAD.

The big difference is that the ground does not go hunting for me. The gorund does not flip out and decide one day to go crazy and kill me. The ground does not decide to rob/kill me, so it does not stalk and target me.

When I face a situation where the ground will kill me...I know I am in that situation.

I very much doubt that your relative that was murdered, or the kids or grandparents in this case thought they were at risk.

So since I know when the ground could kill me, I wear an AAD if I can. But since I DON'T know when some crazy or robber will try to kill me...I would like the ability to carry a gun all the time.

In either case I live my life trying to avoid both high speed impact with the ground, and being in a situation where I might need a gun.

If you like the idea of an AAD...In a situation where you KNOW the risk ahead of time, how can you not support the right of a guy to defned himself in a situation that he cannot control?

A letter from my Rep after I talked to her:

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Thank you for contacting me with your concerns regarding gun control. I appreciate hearing your thoughts and welcome the opportunity to respond.

The Second Amendment to the Constitution prohibits the federal government from denying law-abiding citizens the right to own and bear arms. Our Founding Fathers considered this right paramount.

While legislation to ban firearms, ammunition, and equipment makes headlines, the truth is these antics simply divert attention from the real issue: an ineffective criminal justice system that cannot adequately prosecute violent predators. Of America's 4.3 million convicted criminals, barely 26% are in prison. The remaining 74% are free to roam our nation’s streets. Gun control is not the answer. New York City and Washington, D.C. are prime examples of the failure of radical gun control policies. While these two cities have the two most restrictive gun control laws in the country, they are both known for their violent criminal activity. These cities have gun control, but little crime control.

Regrettably, individuals on my Washington staff who live in D.C. have suffered the effects of poor crime control. In addition to my staff, I have personally experienced situations with social delinquents. I believe that I should be able to defend myself against the crimes involving guns. I also believe the answer is tougher laws against criminal activity. The government must concentrate on locking up criminals and stopping criminal behavior not imposing criminal penalties on law-abiding citizens who are merely exercising their freedom to protect their families and their property.

Because very few criminals actually purchase weapons legally, gun control will merely punish law-abiding citizens, leaving them vulnerable to criminal attack. Federal law enforcement agencies estimate that up to 75% of all guns used in the commission of a crime are either stolen or purchased illegally. By obtaining guns on the street or through theft, criminals will continue to effectively evade any gun control measure.

Our nation must face the harsh realities of our ineffective criminal justice system, and work to solve the true evils that plague our nation. Gun control is neither the problem nor the solution.

I thank you for your concern regarding this very important matter and I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and views with me. It is my honor and privilege to serve the people of Florida's 5th Congressional District and my offices and staff are here to provide you with any assistance you may need.


Sincerely,


Ginny Brown-Waite
Member of Congress

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Zenister 0]

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Not all homeowners have kids. Those that do, can buy special safes, which not only provide security from unauthorized access, but also make the gun instantly available when necessary.

or they could train their kids what it is, how to use it, and basic discipline and respect in the first place... there has been a gun on my parent's headboard as long as i can remember... it was there so that my sister and I have access to it should the need arise as well..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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Good grief--living in Europe must be like having the Government play the part of parent/Big Brother. For fuck's sake, don't people in Europe like personal freedom/civil liberties? This socialist mindset is sickening.

Correction, living in Europe means living in a free minded world.

just as long as you dont mind EVERYONE and their brother making sure you arent doing anything they might not approve of...

no thanks i've been there, and its a beautiful place, but the people and governments get into each other's business and personal lives FAR to much for my taste...

unfortunately its happening here as well... and there arent any more continents to emigrate too...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

The beauty of American freedom is that I can get an AK-47 with all the bells & whistles, and shoot all the legal varmit I want, without Euro-gestapo socialists hassling me.

To put my stance to Euro-socialist government in a slightly-bastardized movie quote:

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You see, according to {Euros'/Canadians' ]plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green jello all over my body reading playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? [And I might want to use a gun to hunt or target shoot, or defend my family and home...]

[Kennedy 0]

That line is so perfect for Dennis Leary. I will always associate him with that, and the "Big N, Little y, HUGE FUCKING Q."

It really is funny* how so many people think everyone should have freedom to do as they wish, as long as they only want to do what is nice and approved.

* - funny disturbing, not at all "funny ha ha"

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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Good grief--living in Europe must be like having the Government play the part of parent/Big Brother. For fuck's sake, don't people in Europe like personal freedom/civil liberties? This socialist mindset is sickening.

Correction, living in Europe means living in a free minded world. I love my personal freedom, just f.e., even telling my own chancellor he's an a***hole. That will cost some Euros but, what a goooood feeling: I told him! Go and tell buddy Georgie he is: You will find yourself quickly somewhere else w/o any return ticket.

Really? I just witnessed a person send the president an very unfriendly e-mail. It included the word a$$hole. And many other colorful words, too, some in very imaginative connections. He is still in his apartment, annoying people and being his liberal little self. Do you really think some 2005 version of the Gestapo is going to swoop down on him and ship him off to a labor camp?

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Come to Europe, find out about the personal freedom, in speech... go back to the US and tell your friends. That might open eyes of some people.

Right, find out about socialism, governmental involvement in personal life, censorship of press and speech, and government protecting people from themselves. Yeah, that's sure presonal freedom to me.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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Make them illegal, except for some very specific uses under very controlled conditions. Get rid of your second amendmend, triple the price with taxes on both guns and ammo.

Can you name anyplace else where that has been tried, and it has reduced gun violence?

England? Nope.
Australia? Nope.
Canada? Nope.
Washington, D.C.? Nope.

But hope springs eternal for the anti-gun folks. It really doesn't matter to them whether it works or not. As long as they get to make guns illegal for law-abiding folks, that's good enough.

[JohnRich 4]

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it won't happen, your politicians are too well paid off.

Balogna. The NRA is only 4-million members, out of a population of 260 million. If the majority of people wanted to defeat the NRA, they could easily overpower the NRA's influence. But the fact is, most people agree with the NRA position on guns - even those who aren't members. It's not about political payoffs - it's about grassroots voting support. The NRA doesn't donate much money to campaigns - they get political support by rallying voters. That's democracy in action.

[JohnRich 4]

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living in Europe means living in a free minded world. I love my personal freedom, just f.e., even telling my own chancellor he's an a***hole. Go and tell buddy Georgie he is: You will find yourself quickly somewhere else w/o any return ticket.

I just wanted to highlight your brilliant statement, above, so that everyone can decide for themselves how much credibility to give your views on things.

Can you provide any evidence to support your charge the President Bush deports people who speak out against him?

No, I didn't think so.

Credibility: zero.

[JohnRich 4]

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gun makers are hardly big industry.

lol

Oh, well that was a very convincing rebuttal!

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

If our government took away our right to bear arms, people would still be killing each other. They would just find another way to do it.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[Kennedy 0]

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exactly, like I continued on, it won't happen, your politicians are too well paid off.

Looking at it the wrong way around... the American people would never let it be changed...

I know this is where all the macho talk comes in and the I'll kill anybody who tries to take my guns and all that stuff. I have stated before I could care less if you guys have guns or not, doesn't affect me. Just unfortunate for the occasional high school student and teachers.

It's unfortunate that people are victimized by criminals in general, but it's hardly unfortunate that guns are available.

It's very fortunate for a lot of people that they have access to the ultimate equalizer.

JUST LOOK AT THE MILLIONS OF CRIMES AND THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF LIVES SAVED [I]EVERY YEAR.[/B][/I]

You really need to realize that the problem is the kid (and whatever warped him) and the failure to recognize and act on warning signs.

ps - the number of guns required to satisfy the criminal market is miniscule compared to teh number of guns available, and the black market will always be able ot supply those guns. No legislation has ever been able to stop a black market. (drugs, alcohol, prostitution, etc)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/03-22-2005/0003239503&EDATE=

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...In an effort to stop such tragedies, PAX has established 866-SPEAK-UP, an anonymous hotline where students can report weapon-related threats at school. The group will also be launching a public service announcement television and radio campaign to empower students to stop weapon-related violence before it occurs.
...
The PAX hotline was founded with the knowledge that in 81 percent of school shootings the attackers told innocent students about their plans beforehand. This means that more than 4 out of 5 of these tragedies could have been prevented, according to PAX.
"With more than 4,000 calls, the hotline is making a difference in students' lives and almost certainly leading to the prevention of numerous tragedies," said Daniel Gross. "Students have the power to make their schools safer. All they have to do is speak up."

See also http://pax.com/signs/

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Jimbo 0]

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We would need to start over.

Which may not be a bad thing, but that's another thread.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[crozby 0]

so anyhoo ... why do people suppose that whenever there is a story in the news about a kid shooting relatives, friends or school teachers, it's always a kid from the USA?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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so anyhoo ... why do people suppose that whenever there is a story in the news about a kid shooting relatives, friends or school teachers, it's always a kid from the USA?

Don't forget that most are caucasian males.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Ron 10]

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Don't forget that most are caucasian males.

With unstable home lives and in many cases had gigantic red flags waving all over the place.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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Make them illegal, except for some very specific uses under very controlled conditions. Get rid of your second amendmend, triple the price with taxes on both guns and ammo.

Nice - Liberal (not the dictionary response) reaction. Only the rich can afford guns if we do that. Which appears to be the net result in any of this type of argument. Why do liberal positions only result in the rich having any of the original freedoms?

Then, the result will be another argument that it's not fair the rich only get guns, so then the government will have to 'give' guns to the poor. Hey, another entitlement program and more money for the government! It must be good I'm still waiting for someone to propose that the government buy cars for everyone too....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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England? Nope.
Australia? Nope.
Canada? Nope.
Washington, D.C.? Nope.

Most of these have already been disputed in the past. But do tell me John, when did Canada ban firearms?

On the opposite, please tell me of a society as a whole, not a couple of communities, where everybody was given a gun, lots of ammo and gun crimes went down.

As for big business......if you think the small arms trade is not big business you have got to be kidding. I think at this point stock in small arms companies is a better bet than tobacco companies, wouldn't you think?

[jeiber 0]

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On the opposite, please tell me of a society as a whole, not a couple of communities, where everybody was given a gun, lots of ammo and gun crimes went down.

Actually, I seem to recall reading about a town that mandated that every citizen have a firearm. Crime was reduced significantly. If someone else recalls the details, please post. I'll see what Google turns up...

J

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I guess you missed the "not a couple of communities" part.

[Ron 10]

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Actually, I seem to recall reading about a town that mandated that every citizen have a firearm. Crime was reduced significantly. If someone else recalls the details, please post. I'll see what Google turns up...

I think Kennesaw GA.

Edit to ADD:
http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html
http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/codeofordinances.aspx

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mnealtx 0]

I guess you've missed the fact that *NO* society has done that.... a community is the best you're gonna get, at this point.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Ron 10]

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I guess you've missed the fact that *NO* society has done that.... a community is the best you're gonna get, at this point.

Don't be silly. Anti-gun folks will not pay any attention to places like Kennesaw..They say a city is not big enough...Just look at them defend DC's gun law failures.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I guess you've missed the fact that *NO* society has done that.... a community is the best you're gonna get, at this point

Exactly. And I think we can all agree that what works in a small community can not just be transposed on a whole country with the same effect.

Fact then remains, that there are many countries with strict gun laws with far lower crime rates, but not too many countries with better access to guns and lower crime rates.