Military Considers New Sidearm

[Kennedy 0]

http://www.marinetimes.com/story.php?f=0-MARINEPAPER-723019.php

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The push for more pistol punch
Army tests new ammo, technology in search for its future handgun

The Army is testing potent pistol ammo, including .45-caliber rounds, as a possible alternative for 9mm ammunition, which is often criticized for its lack of stopping power.

Since World War I, the 9mm cartridge has seen action in conflicts all over the world and is the standard pistol caliber for NATO forces. Still, soldiers have questioned the performance of the lightweight ammunition since the Army chose it as a replacement for the combat-proven .45 two decades ago.

Continued complaints from soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan since the war on terrorism began prompted officials at the Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., to take a serious look at M9 pistol alternatives.

“The feeling is that we need to assess a caliber beyond the 9mm,” said Maj. Glenn Dean, chief of the small-arms division at Benning, citing the most common complaint from soldiers: “We’d like more stopping power.”

Complaints about reliability and a lack of accessories also prompted Dean’s office, the Army’s proponent for small arms, to scour the commercial pistol market last summer for off-the-shelf options for a Future Handgun System. “We are assessing the current technology to define what a future handgun should do and send it to the Army,” Dean said.

As a combat developer, Dean’s job is to stay on top of the needs of soldiers and turn them into future small-arms requirements for the Army.

Since the U.S. military began operations in Afghanistan in 2001, small-arms officials at Benning have talked to soldiers who say they have little confidence in the M9 9mm in the combat zone, Dean said.

Under the Soldier Enhancement Program, Benning officials began looking for solutions on the commercial market.

They started out with about 85 different semi-automatic handguns from major manufacturers such as Glock, Sigarms Inc. and Smith & Wesson.

The goal, though, was not to find a perfect pistol, Dean said. Instead, 14 pistols, in a mix of 9mm, .40 and .45 calibers, were selected for soldiers to fire, so small-arms officials could study how individual features such as calibers and safety devices performed, Dean said.

Ten soldiers participated in two weeks of shooting tests. They included men and women, commissioned and noncommissioned officers. Their job specialties ranged from infantrymen and military police to drill sergeants and signal soldiers.

Officials examined collected data such as shot placement, qualification scores, reliability and safety, Dean said. Other factors studied included how fast soldiers could recover from the shot recoil, aim and shoot again.

Some of the features examined in the test that could show up in the Future Handgun System proposal are based on past complaints about the M9, Dean said. Some of these include magazine releases that can be operated easier while wearing cold-weather gloves and safeties and decocking devices mounted on the pistol frame rather than the slide for simpler, one-handed operation.

The test also looked at pistols like the M9 that feature double-action/single-action operation versus single- and double-action-only models.

The M9 allows soldiers to shoot in double-action mode — pulling the trigger with the hammer in the down position — and in single-action mode, in which the hammer is cocked to the rear before the first shot to make the trigger easier to pull.

Revolutionary improvements in triggers over the past five years could change this, Dean said.

In both modes, the hammer remains in the rear position after each shot and requires a decocking device that lets the soldier drop the hammer safely while a round is in the chamber when the shooting is over.

A double-action-only operation eliminates the need for a decocker since the hammer remains in the down position after each shot, Dean said.

The data gathered from the experiment will likely be ready sometime in March, Dean said. If his office decides to make a recommendation, Dean said it could go before the senior leadership by this summer.

If the Army decides to move forward, weapons developers hope to invite commercial pistol makers to participate in an open competition to select a new service pistol.

“We do expect to release a [request for proposal] by late summer for a Future Handgun System,” said Col. Michael Smith, the head of Army’s Project Manager Soldier Weapons. “It really is an exciting time.”

Dean remains optimistic but knows that the program will have to compete against other expensive programs, including an effort to replace the Army’s M16s and M249 squad automatic weapons.

“The challenge is actually getting the requirement approved,” Dean said. “To be realistic, no army has won a war based on a pistol.”

Many see fewer pistols in the Army’s future, Dean said, describing how ultralight, compact carbines may replace pistols for tank crewmen and other soldiers who operate in tight places.

On the other hand, carrying a pistol as a backup weapon has always been a top priority among American soldiers.

But the Army’s current pistol has never truly won the confidence of soldiers since the Army chose it as a replacement for the M1911A1 .45 automatic pistol in 1985.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[airtwardo 7]

Always wondered why they went with the M9
in the first place.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[D22369 0]

Always wondered why.... ***

...they replaced an extremely adequate weapon with an inferior piece of shit.....

I am with you...... I liked my .45

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Antidote 0]

Why did they replace the M1911A1 anyway?

Many gun enthusiast friends of mine say it's one of the finest most reliable handguns out there - and that it *will* stop an opponent.

[Zenister 0]

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Always wondered why they went with the M9
in the first place.

its a complete shit weapon... my additional duty at my first assignment was as the company armorer (was WAAAY better than driving the bus) we had a few M9's with less than 600 rounds fired, that were woefully inaccurate at any range... they were damn near indirect fire weapons.. was fun to give the worst ones to the LTs who thought they were hot shit...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[bch7773 0]

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Always wondered why they went with the M9
in the first place.

me too. I guess so they could fit in with NATO?

although if they go with .45 cal again I think they would do better to go with a double stacked pistol instead of the 1911.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[skycop 0]

Alot of guys I know who deployed bought their own Glocks. The most popular was the 19, especially with tankers and aircrew. 9mm was popular because you can find ammo for it just about anywhere.
We (our PD) carry Glock 19's and the weapon itself is just about as rugged as the 1911.
9mm has many draw backs, we recently had a shooting where our 9mm would'nt penetrate a 1990 Plymouth Acclaim's car door (several rounds). We carry +P+ Corbon ammo, one of the hottest 9mm at 1300fps.
The .45 is a man stopper, I wish we would go to the Glock .45
As far as the military goes, Glock in any caliber would be a vast improvement over the the piece of shit M9.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[TomAiello 26]

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The .45 is a man stopper, I wish we would go to the Glock .45.

I've got a very nice Glock 21 (.45 acp). It's my favorite.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Kennedy 0]

Geez, rub it in why don't you...

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[sneaky 0]

Glocks...Definatly a good piece of kit, I had a Glock 17 as my issued PPW, very reliable and effective with the double trigger safety action.

However...

9mm packs a punch but when you get re-issued a Glock 36 with the man stopping .45, and get groupings the size of tangerine over 30 meters...

That 9mm just dont cut the mustard anymore.

I like it..... a lot...

[Alias 0]

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The .45 is a man stopper, I wish we would go to the Glock .45.

I've got a very nice Glock 21 (.45 acp). It's my favorite.

Love my new Kimber Pro Carry!

M9 was a shitty political decision

There was a reason Mr Browning came up with the .45.....and it wasnt political!

Carpe Diem

[Kennedy 0]

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There was a reason Mr Browning came up with the .45.....and it wasnt political!

It's worth noting that he first created the design for a .38 caliber handgun, as that was what the military was using in it's revolvers at the time. WHen the brass and politicians came tot he conclusion that they wanted a .45, Browning adapted his design and helped create the .45acp.

So, in a sense, it was a political decision.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Alias 0]

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There was a reason Mr Browning came up with the .45.....and it wasnt political!

It's worth noting that he first created the design for a .38 caliber handgun, as that was what the military was using in it's revolvers at the time. WHen the brass and politicians came tot he conclusion that they wanted a .45, Browning adapted his design and helped create the .45acp.

So, in a sense, it was a political decision.

A decision made by politicians but not by a political situation. Unless you consider the situation in the Philippines where the .38 could not effectively stop the Morra's (sp) thus leading to the devopment of a caliber that could to be a political situation

Carpe Diem

[markd_nscr986 0]

Words of wisdom courtesy of "Doc" Chris



"I would carry a slingshot before I would carry an M9"

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[waltappel 1]

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The .45 is a man stopper, I wish we would go to the Glock .45.

I've got a very nice Glock 21 (.45 acp). It's my favorite.

Love my Glocks too!!! I had Trigicon sights put on a few years ago and am not too crazy about them. Does anyone have sights they can recommend that are good for a wide variety of lighting conditions?

Walt

[marv0723 0]

Walt,

Are you looking for illuminated sights? Trijicon sights are not bad and Meprolight has a pretty good offering. Glock is also making their own or having them made. They seem to be highly visible in all conditons. There is an argument to be made against illuminated sights, however. It is tactical in nature and you could argue the point in a number of ways. I would much rather have a GOOD light than illuminated sights. You can save some money on sights if you learn some low light shooting skills.

Marvin Walden
Move Shoot, Inc.-Tactical Training Consultants
Visit http://www.moveshoot.com

[sinker 0]

I have meprolights on my Kimber and love them... they aren't very bright, just enough to pick up the site picture, so they aren't distracting.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Zep 0]

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There was a reason Mr Browning came up with the .45.....and it wasnt political!

It's worth noting that he first created the design for a .38 caliber handgun, as that was what the military was using in it's revolvers at the time. WHen the brass and politicians came tot he conclusion that they wanted a .45, Browning adapted his design and helped create the .45acp.

So, in a sense, it was a political decision.

I was always under the impression that it was Colonel Thompson and Colonel LaGarde that decided the army needed
a handgun with more stopping power So the Colt Browning .45 model 1905 was born

Gone fishing

[waltappel 1]

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Walt,

Are you looking for illuminated sights? Trijicon sights are not bad and Meprolight has a pretty good offering. Glock is also making their own or having them made. They seem to be highly visible in all conditons. There is an argument to be made against illuminated sights, however. It is tactical in nature and you could argue the point in a number of ways. I would much rather have a GOOD light than illuminated sights. You can save some money on sights if you learn some low light shooting skills.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not necessarily looking for illuminated sights--just something that is good in a variety of lighting conditions. My trijicon sights are getting a bit old and are looking dimmer and just aren't all that great in bright light.

Walt

[Zee 0]

Give these puppies a try Clicky

Action©Sports

[waltappel 1]

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Give these puppies a try Clicky

Gotta' say, they look sweet!

Walt

[Kennedy 0]

How many names has that company had?

I've heard good things about them, though I'm not particularly fond of the "pumpkin on a post" sight arrangement.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Zee 0]

Don't know what they used be called but it's not a bad sight at all. They're not that great if you're using them for long range target practice (Might want to look in to some Bo-Mar target sights for that) but, for quick front sight acquisition in close quarters they're pretty hard to beat.

Action©Sports

[br0k3n 0]

why stop at .45, get tooled up with a pair of these bad boys http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/monster_1103/

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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why stop at .45, get tooled up with a pair of these bad boys http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/monster_1103/

Good grief--you'd see smaller people breaking their wrists trying to rapid fire that mad bastard.

I'd like to see a small frame .40. The Beretta is a handful for those of us with smaller hands. A small frame Glock would be good. Besides, a pistol never won a war. It's a defensive weapon. That's why JA, HC, and MDG non-combatants carry them solely for self-protection.