03CLS 0 #151 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI would love to know what kind of a medical assessment was being done that her father would have to leave.. She was near death already! I'm sure Bill can answer that question better then I since Amy is a doctor. The way I see it, if a medical team ask me to leave the room, they are the experts, not me. I'm going to listen to them and excuse myself from the room. Not be a problem to the point that the police had to be called in to remove Terri's father. Do you think the medical team is lieing about the situation? What do they have to gain from a lie? No I'm not saying their lying, hell most hopice center will send a patient home when there is hope left. With the feeding tube removed and his daughter ready for death I question what kind of assessment their were doing that the father would have to leave the room. Doesn't matter what kind of assesment they were doing. If he was being an ass, they might ask him to leave. He was being a ass because they asked him to leave..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #152 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI would love to know what kind of a medical assessment was being done that her father would have to leave.. She was near death already! I'm sure Bill can answer that question better then I since Amy is a doctor. The way I see it, if a medical team ask me to leave the room, they are the experts, not me. I'm going to listen to them and excuse myself from the room. Not be a problem to the point that the police had to be called in to remove Terri's father. Do you think the medical team is lieing about the situation? What do they have to gain from a lie? No I'm not saying their lying, hell most hopice center will send a patient home when there is hope left. With the feeding tube removed and his daughter ready for death I question what kind of assessment their were doing that the father would have to leave the room. Doesn't matter what kind of assesment they were doing. If he was being an ass, they might ask him to leave. He was being a ass because they asked him to leave..... Even if they did w/o him being an ass (which I doubt), what does it really have to do with anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,072 #153 March 31, 2005 >I would glad to answer Bill questions but severely is way to broad.... I think it's pretty specific. Again, let's say your wife tells you she wants to live as long as possible even if she is brain dead or close to it. There is an accident and she is injured; she seems to be brain dead. You want her to live. Her parents want to let her go. Would you try to keep her alive? A yes or no answer would work here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #154 March 31, 2005 QuoteHe was being a ass because they asked him to leave..... And you know this because you were there? So, if a medical team ask you to leave, you don't leave because it's your right to be thereMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #155 March 31, 2005 QuoteHow does she know she disagrees unless she had this same conversation with her parents You know - based on previous talks with your wife - the she would not want the feeding tube removed. Thus she would disagree with her parent's decision to remove it while she is incapacitated. But she never had this conversation with her parents, only you. Sorry I wasn't clear in the wording. Quoteand to your real sample I would let my in-laws make the decision and I would glad to answer Bill questions but severely is way to broad.... So you'd let the in-laws starve your wife against your wife's wishes she made to you before the acident. Well, at least you're consistent. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #156 March 31, 2005 QuoteWedding VOWS - Are you f'n joking, how many couples break these vows on monthy, yearly basis. Sorry but my point that I was trying to make was that YOUR parents (MOSTLY) only have good intentions when it comes to there kids and no not DAILY decisions but DEATH=forever desicion then yes. I just married their daughter, but it's their daughter THEY created her. Just married?? I guess you don’t take your marriage very seriously then… no i'm not... i'm well aware many people say things, make promises, and take oaths they dont really mean.. its rather sad, but that doesn’t change the fact you DID take an oath...if you dont really mean your vows (forsaking ALL others) why do you make them publicly? does your word mean anything to you? If you are breaking your vows at all, then your marriage itself is meaningless..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #157 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote Wedding VOWS - Are you f'n joking, how many couples break these vows on monthy, yearly basis. Sorry but my point that I was trying to make was that YOUR parents (MOSTLY) only have good intentions when it comes to there kids and no not DAILY decisions but DEATH=forever desicion then yes. I just married their daughter, but it's their daughter THEY created her. Your reasoning is severely flawed. HOW? Or Which Part? forsaking all others____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
03CLS 0 #158 March 31, 2005 Quote>Mike didn't have proof that she even said that, >but since he by law makes the desicions then it's up to him. Right. So once again: Let's say you are in such a situation. Your wife has told you she wants to live even if she's brain dead or close to it; her parents want to let her go. Who should prevail? Suppose you have no proof she said that; does that change things? No it doesn't without a living will the parents she have final say...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #159 March 31, 2005 QuoteNo it doesn't without a living will the parents she have final say...... See Bill? He's consistent. Doesn't composed sentences very clearly, but consistent. I completely and utterly disagree with his position and think his supporting arguments are completely specious (you could just as easily say the spouse should choose because the parents can always make another one), but at least he's consistent. I can respect a consistency in position even while disagreeing with that position. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #160 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteNo it doesn't without a living will the parents she have final say...... See Bill? He's consistent. Doesn't composed sentences very clearly, but consistent. I completely and utterly disagree with his position and think his supporting arguments are completely specious (you could just as easily say the spouse should choose because the parents can always make another one), but at least he's consistent. I can respect a consistency in position even while disagreeing with that position. I never understand why people respect consistency. If I consistently choose to punch someone in the face everytime I see them, do you respect me for my choice? Being consistent just means that it is all that much harder to change. And change is what makes us grow. What SHOULD be respected is consistency with good reasoning to back it up. It IS possible to have good reasoning even for an idea that is not agreed upon.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYBERT71 0 #161 March 31, 2005 Put yourself in the husbands place and really think before you reply. Your wife is in a coma. Not making any progress. The two of you, in private, have talked about your desire to not be left in a vegatative state. (This is what he believes.) You try for 8 years to get a change in her vegatative state. You do what you can to see if there is no hope that she will ever recover from her injuries. Now spend 7 years trying to get her wishes done. (Again this is what he believes.) Her family is fighting you, calling you names, attacking you the whole time. You still love her and want to do what she told you she wanted. You may have gone out and gotten a girlfriend, but will never forget your wife. The easy thing would be to get a divorce and move on but for her sake you are fighting to make her last wish done. What would you do and why? "If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive." Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #162 March 31, 2005 QuoteEven if they did w/o him being an ass (which I doubt), what does it really have to do with anything? Because she shouldn't have to die with ONLY her cheating husband by her side and yes he cheated on her, he broke their marriage vows. He should have divorced her years ago. Desperate people do desperate things during severally emotional times. I'm sure non of you have ever rallied the troops for your cause. I just have more compassion for her parents than the "husband". JBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #163 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuote>Mike didn't have proof that she even said that, >but since he by law makes the desicions then it's up to him. Right. So once again: Let's say you are in such a situation. Your wife has told you she wants to live even if she's brain dead or close to it; her parents want to let her go. Who should prevail? Suppose you have no proof she said that; does that change things? No it doesn't without a living will the parents she have final say...... ridiculous.. lets apply that reasoning to everything.. you want to move out of state, she wants to move out of state, but the parents dont want you to move because its to far for them to travel (and they never liked them southerners anyways )... by your logic THEIR desires matter MORE than either of yours...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #164 March 31, 2005 Psst............Judy is a gal. Maybe she would do better with a husband and a boyfriendMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #165 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteEven if they did w/o him being an ass (which I doubt), what does it really have to do with anything? Because she shouldn't have to die with ONLY her cheating husband by her side and yes he cheated on her, he broke their marriage vows. He should have divorced her years ago. not before she was dead he didnt... and she actually died shortly after the heart attack.. he hung on, beyond any reasonable expectation and cared for her shell until it was obvious to everyone (except those blinded by religious fervor) that she was really gone... THEN he moved on with his life, just like her parents should have done originally....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #166 March 31, 2005 QuoteHe should have divorced her years ago. As I said before, if Michael had divorced her years ago, Terri's family would have had a field day with that, and made him out to be the bad guy, deserting his wife. It was a no win situation for Michael. Maybe now he can find some peace and quiet. I don't think that will come too quickly for him, because of the media circus the in-laws created.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYBERT71 0 #167 March 31, 2005 I know. But I did say to put yourself in the husbands place. "If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive." Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #168 March 31, 2005 QuotePut yourself in the husbands place and really think before you reply. Your wife is in a coma. Not making any progress. The two of you, in private, have talked about your desire to not be left in a vegatative state. (This is what he believes.) You try for 8 years to get a change in her vegatative state. You do what you can to see if there is no hope that she will ever recover from her injuries. Now spend 7 years trying to get her wishes done. (Again this is what he believes.) Her family is fighting you, calling you names, attacking you the whole time. You still love her and want to do what she told you she wanted. You may have gone out and gotten a girlfriend, but will never forget your wife. The easy thing would be to get a divorce and move on but for her sake you are fighting to make her last wish done. What would you do and why? I am not in this situation, nor will it be a problem because of living wills we have. I think the guy is a scum bag, that is my personal opinion and I have a great deal of sympathy for the parents and sibling of Terri. I don't know why it took 7 years to figure out she wasn't getting better. My personal experiences have helped form my opinion of the situation. I love my mom and if something ever happened to me I want her there. Hell, I call her even now when I get sick because she will always make me feel better.Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
03CLS 0 #169 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote>Mike didn't have proof that she even said that, >but since he by law makes the desicions then it's up to him. Right. So once again: Let's say you are in such a situation. Your wife has told you she wants to live even if she's brain dead or close to it; her parents want to let her go. Who should prevail? Suppose you have no proof she said that; does that change things? No it doesn't without a living will the parents she have final say...... ridiculous.. lets apply that reasoning to everything.. you want to move out of state, she wants to move out of state, but the parents dont want you to move because its to far for them to travel (and they never liked them southerners anyways )... by your logic THEIR desires matter MORE than either of yours... WTF are you even talking about, I said when it comes to ending her life as it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #170 March 31, 2005 QuoteI don't know why it took 7 years to figure out she wasn't getting better. If Michael had given up earlier, then once again, he's the bad guyMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #171 March 31, 2005 Quoteand she actually died shortly after the heart attack. So he was widowed 15 years ago so he had no wife as of 15 years ago. Why would he fight for a dead woman to die? I thought she lived for like 15 years after her heart attack which was why we are having this debate.Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #172 March 31, 2005 Terri Schiavo. Dead. *** RIP Now maybe people and the media can concentrate on other things that are much more important. Don't let them suck you in.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #173 March 31, 2005 Yup, like MJMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #174 March 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteand she actually died shortly after the heart attack. So he was widowed 15 years ago so he had no wife as of 15 years ago. Why would he fight for a dead woman to die? I thought she lived for like 15 years after her heart attack which was why we are having this debate. This conversation is so circular, I have to leave it.... That, or it could be time for me to go home. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
03CLS 0 #175 March 31, 2005 QuoteTerri Schiavo. Dead. *** RIP Now maybe people and the media can concentrate on other things that are much more important. Don't let them suck you in. Like that idiot running the UN or Jacko. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
