Anyone know stuff about these?

[Zee 0]

I inherited this little piece of history from my father when he passed away a few month ago.

This is what I've been able to find out about it so far:

It's a Military issue Luger model P08 made by Mauser in 1941 (letters "byf" stamped on the toggle indicate the manufacturer). The last two digits of the serial number are stamped on every single piece of the gun (I've actually taken it down to verify this) and it has the an Eagle Insignia stamped on the right side of both the breechblock and the barrel.

It also has the letters "Fxo" and an Eagle Insignia on each of the two magazines. There are some additional markings on the breechblock but they're rather difficult to make out - looks like an eagle clenching the number "135" or "136" in it's talons. I still haven't been able to find out what any of those markings mean.

I took it down to a dealer a few days ago to get it appraised. Even though I have absolutely no intention of selling it I thought it would be fun to find out some facts about the piece and get some idea of what it's actually worth. This particular dealer was by no means an expert when it comes to Lugers but he did his best to give me what information he had.

Anyone here happen to know anything about these guns? Any little bit of info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Z

Action©Sports

[BIGUN 1,423]

You may want to send them your question, description and picture.

http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/p08_home_us.html

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Zee 0]

Good tip - thanks!

Action©Sports

[namgrunt 0]

german military luger

safe to shoot with correct ammp

issued to officers then to outher german troops.

could be a rare collector item
need all markings to determine value

KEEP IT

if leather holster is in good shape and not dried it is also valuable

all german services navy,air force and army issued these in both ww1 and ww2
LOCK IT UP

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[JohnRich 4]

It's called a "P-08" for short, which stands for "pistalero" (spelling?), the German word for "pistol". And the "08" represents the year of acceptance for military service - 1908.

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(letters "byf" stamped on the toggle indicate the manufacturer).

There are plenty of places on the internet where you can find out the details on these things, as well as books that can be bought.

The "byf" is the factory code - my Luger is the same, which means it came from the Mauser arms factory. Some manufacturers are more rare, and thus more valuable, than others. byf is a common one.

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The last two digits of the serial number are stamped on every single piece of the gun

That's a good thing, which means that those are all the original parts, fitted for that gun. If you're really lucky, the magazines will have serial numbers matching the gun also.

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eagle clenching the number "135" or "136" in it's talons

That's probably a "Waffenampt" (or something spelled similar to that). It's an inspector's mark, with numbers under it signifying a particular arms inspector. Each gun would have parts inspected by several different inspectors. Reference books can even tell you who that person was.

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I took it down to a dealer a few days ago to get it appraised.

Prices vary widely depending upon the details. Lugers are very collectible. It could be worth anything from $700 to tens of thousands. It sounds like a run of the mill Mauser version, at the lower end of the scale.

They actually weren't that reliable as a sidearm. You may recall the scene in "Schilndler's List" where a Nazi officer is trying to murder some Jews, and can't get his Luger to fire. That's not too far from the truth.

It uses the standard 9mm ammo, still very popular today. Take it out and shoot it!

[pajarito 0]

My Granddad was a US Army Infantry Platoon Leader in WWII. He came back with a Browning high-power pistol and gave it to my Dad. It was one of the original ones actually made in Belgium. It also has the German Eagle stamped on the side near the trigger housing. It functions great but I rarely fire it. I'll also never sell it. It is something I'll pass along to my son and he'll hopefully pass it along to his. Cool stuff.

[JohnRich 4]

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My Granddad was a US Army Infantry Platoon Leader in WWII. He came back with a Browning high-power pistol and gave it to my Dad. It was one of the original ones actually made in Belgium. It also has the German Eagle stamped on the side...

Ohhhh, Ahhhh... (Envious) That would be a good one. One of the interesting things about gun collecting is all the history you learn. And your gun is a piece of history. As the Germans invaded and took over countries, they took over the arms factories in those countries too. In some cases, they made them convert to producing German firearms. And in some cases, as in Belgium, they liked the high-power pistols so much, that they just had them keep making what they were already tooled-up to make. All they did was stamp their Nazi eagle on it, to signify it as a German gun. So, what you have there is a Belgium high-power pistol, that was made during German occupation. That's a valuable piece. Ohhh, Ahhh...

[Zee 0]

Thanks for info guys - I've actually taken it to the range and test fired a mag through it just make sure it works the way it's supposed to. It's a surprisingly fun and accurate gun to shoot. I'm still a little worried about breaking one of the numbered parts so I guess the good o'l 1911 will just have to do for a while longer
Peace,
Z

Action©Sports

[pajarito 0]

I think it's very nice. It originally had a white pearl handle which later cracked pretty bad. My Dad replaced it with a Pachmeier (sp?) rubber grip. I wish he had not have done that. I'd rather it be completly original. That's the only thing different, though. Like I said, I'll never let it go. The historical aspect is very cool but I had tremendous respect for my Granddad.

[JohnRich 4]

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I think it's very nice. It originally had a white pearl handle which later cracked pretty bad. My Dad replaced it with a Pachmeier (sp?) rubber grip. I wish he had not have done that. I'd rather it be completly original.

Do you still have the original white pearl grips? If so, hang onto them, so that it can be restored to original condition should you ever need to sell it, or pass it on to an heir. The Pachmyer (sp?) rubber grips are great for shooting, but yeah, they ain't right on a WWII collectible pistol.

Attached is a target I shot last weekend in a 300-yard match. I was using my Model 1905 Swedish Mauser, in 6.5 mm, shooting military surplus ammo. It has crude iron military sights (notch and post), with no windage adjustment, and I was having to use Kentucky windage for my sight picture, which is hard to do exactly the same consistently. This target was my best of three stages of fire.

[Zep 0]

The Borchardt-Lugers purchased by the U.S Army are generally called the American Eagle Lugers (unofficial designation)
because of the American style Eagle stamped over the chamber on the barrel extension.

Gone fishing

[Kennedy 0]

Nice shootin, Tex!

I'd post my most recent target, but it's embarassing (even when you keep in mind that it's a two inch snubbie with gutter sights).

Still haven't figured out why I have so much more trouble with that thing (past 15 feet) when other sidearms don't pose any problem.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Zee 0]

Nice group, J. That's pretty impressive from 300 yards with iron sights.

I got a reply from the Luger Expert on my old gun - Just need to figure out what the suffix beneath the serial number is. I thought it was a lower case "a" or "s" but, it doesn't match the "a" stamp and there were no "byf42" Lugers made in the "s" suffix range.

Can anyone tell what it's supposed to be?

Action©Sports

[JohnRich 4]

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Just need to figure out what the suffix beneath the serial number is. I thought it was a lower case "a" or "s" but, it doesn't match the "a" stamp and there were no "byf42" Lugers made in the "s" suffix range. Can anyone tell what it's supposed to be?

They used cursive-type letters there, but I can't tell what yours is supposed to be. Maybe an "e"?

Two photos of my P.08 Luger, also a byf 42 pistol. My letter code appears to be a "k".

Mauser (byf) quit making P.08 Lugers in June, 1942, and switched to making the P.38, so ours are some of the last Lugers made.

Going from memory, I seem to recall that the Germans used an alphabetic letter to designate the month of manufacture, like an "a" for January, "b" for February, and so on. But that may be for the P.38's...

I also seem to recall that the Germans played a lot of tricks with serial numbers, so as to disguise their manufacturing capacity. In contrast, America assigned a block of serial numbers to each manufacturer, and the guns were numbered sequentially. Thus, when the Germans captured a random sample on the battlefield, from the manufacturer name, date and serial number, they were quickly able to figure out exactly what the production capacity was of each of America's arms makers. The Germans tried to prevent that, by assigning duplicate serial numbers amongst different manufacturers, using meaningless factory codes (like "byf"), and so on.

There should be several web sites in which you can post questions that will reach P.08 collectors who are knowledgable about these things.

[pajarito 0]

Still should be able to tighten that group up a bit there John. I'm kidding. You know, I don't have the original pearl grips but my Dad might. I'm going to check. It would be nice to display it somewhere in my house.

[Zee 0]

Not bad, not bad - It was indeed an "e". Pretty funky lookin' "e" if you ask me but an "e" just the same.

Check out this page Lugers for sale If you'd like to get some idea of what it's worth.

That's a good lookin' gun ya got there by the way
Not bad, not bad - It was indeed an "e". Pretty funky lookin' "e" if you ask me but an "e" just the same.

Check out this page Lugers for sale If you'd like to get some idea of what it's worth.

That's a good lookin' gun ya got there by the way
Ediit: I forgot. I got a reply from the Luger Dude.

He said that there were 123,000 Lugers made by Mauser in 1941 -1942 with the bulk of them going to the German Army. The suffix doesn't indicate the month of manufacture - Luger serial numbers went from 1 - 9999 and then start over with 1a - 9999a and then 1b - 9999b etc.

Action©Sports

[JohnRich 4]

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That's a good lookin' gun ya got there by the way

Attached is a photo of the whole thing. This one has the original grips, made out of what was called "bakelite", or something like that. It was new-fangled stuff at the time, which we now call "plastic".

This is an import, so as per BATF requirements, it has the importers stamp on the side (CAI, St. Albans, VT). I hate that the BATF requires markings which destroy the original condition... If they want to track these imported firearms, they can do so by maker and serial number - they don't need to deface them!

By the way, have you found the secret panel yet which you slide off to disassemble the pistol?

[Zee 0]

Das Black Widow - According to the Luger Dude, the Black Widows were made as a marketing ploy - Only about 20% of the 41 and 42 production were made all black like that.

And I have found the little sneaky panel - I've torn it down and cleaned it. It was a bit confusing at first but I found a good diagram online that showed me how to properaly take it down and put it back together.

Action©Sports

[JohnRich 4]

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And I have found the little sneaky panel - I've torn it down and cleaned it. It was a bit confusing at first but I found a good diagram online that showed me how to properaly take it down and put it back together.

Heh heh heh. Yeah, that's why I asked. I've taken a lot of different guns apart (and got most of them back together), but the Luger is one of the most difficult to figure out where to start. You can push and poke for hours and not discover that secret panel.

Now that you have a Luger, you're going to have to get his offspring: the Walther P.38. You have to do it - it's the collecting bug.

[Guest]

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Ohhh, Ahhh...

...and sometimes "Y"...


mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

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[Zee 0]

I don't have it's offspring but - O'l Grandpa perhaps?

My father passed down a few more guns when he died - Most were used for shooting but two of them were kept just for show - The Luger was one, and this was the other:

Mauser C96 30 cal. My Grandpa picked it up after WWI - it's a very sweet piece of history.

(my brother has the gun now - this is just a picture of a similar one I picked up off the net)

I like the little panel on the Luger - I don't think it has as many parts as the 1911 though

Action©Sports

[Kennedy 0]

Have you ever tried field striping the mauser and putting it back together? I don't know about the nubmer of parts each had (you showed a modern 1911, not the orignial Army issue pistol), but I can tell you that the broomy was a bitch to put back together.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Zee 0]

Nope. can't say I ever had that much ambition. But just by looking at the thing I'd have to agree with you.

Action©Sports

[Kennedy 0]

1911 Exploded View

Mauser Broomy Exploded View

Luger Exploded View

Believe you me, the 1911 is a dream compared the to German pistols.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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Mauser C96 30 cal.

The "broomhandle" masuer pistols are really neat. That's one I don't have yet. Just watch out for the attachable shoulder stock - that makes it illegal according to the ATF, because it then "becomes" a rifle with a barrel shorter than allowed. It's amazing what a little piece of wood can do to your legal status.

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I don't think it has as many parts as the 1911 though

90% of those parts you showed in the breakdown hardly ever have to actually be disassembled. The normal field strip for cleaning is about five parts.