Feinstein Pushes Ignorant Gun Control, AGAIN

[mnealtx 0]

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Rebore your rifle to .51 calibre and put slightly bigger but legal holes in everything.

Actually, modern firearms (black powder excepted) are already limited by law to no larger than .50 caliber.

So what this Bill is attempting to do is to ratchet down the legal range of acceptable calibers.

Other guns are "too small" for the anti-gun folks.

So it becomes a game of Goldilocks' porridge, where some is too hot, and some is too cold. Soon, there won't by any at all that are "just right".

I expect someone to invent the .49 caliber BMG rifle and cartridge any day now.

Hi John,

Actually, calibers over .50 are allowed, if they have a sporting purpose... hence the Tyranosaur, .505 Burns and such-like....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

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Actually, calibers over .50 are allowed, if they have a sporting purpose... hence the Tyranosaur, .505 Burns and such-like....

Do you have any idea where that is spelled out in the regulations?

I know that 18 USC Chap. 44 Sect. 921 defines a "destructive device" as a firearm with greater than a one-half inch bore. That's how they ban the general ownership of things like mortars and bazookas.

But I can't find anything that shows what you say. I'm not doubting your word, I'm just curious to see how the ATF defines that "exception".

[mnealtx 0]

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Actually, calibers over .50 are allowed, if they have a sporting purpose... hence the Tyranosaur, .505 Burns and such-like....

Do you have any idea where that is spelled out in the regulations?

I know that 18 USC Chap. 44 Sect. 921 defines a "destructive device" as a firearm with greater than a one-half inch bore. That's how they ban the general ownership of things like mortars and bazookas.

But I can't find anything that shows what you say. I'm not doubting your word, I'm just curious to see how the ATF defines that "exception".

From 26 USC, Section 5845

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The term ''destructive device'' means (2) any type of weapon by whatever
name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel
a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the
barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch
in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary
finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting
purposes;

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Kennedy 0]

Maybe I'm missing something, and heaven forbid I should give ideas to the gun banners, but to me that says only shotguns approved by the paper-pusher can have a bore over half an inch. Did I miss something allowing rifles?

If so, I know someone with a collectible rifle in .505 Gibbs who'd love to stop paying those damned BATFE fees every year.

edit to add: So does having a bore greater than half inch make a firearm Class III, or does it make it illegal straight away? I'm curious after reading about the .700 NitroExpress. (no typo, that says .700)

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[DrunkMonkey 0]

Feinstein is an idiot who knows how to prey on the fears of naive Soccer Moms. I'm gonna buy a shotgun and a .50 cal just because she doesn't want me to.

[JohnRich 4]

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26 USC, Section 5845

Thanks for that reference.

So how do we convince the BATF bureaucrats that .50 BMG is being used for sporting purposes, and therefore should not be classified as a "destructive device"?

[JohnRich 4]

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Maybe I'm missing something, and heaven forbid I should give ideas to the gun banners, but to me that says only shotguns approved by the paper-pusher can have a bore over half an inch. Did I miss something allowing rifles?

Yes, you missed it - the part of the citation that he snipped-out includes language that excludes rifles designed for sporting purposes.

And .50 BMG is used for sporting purposes.

[JohnRich 4]

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I'm gonna buy a shotgun and a .50 cal just because she doesn't want me to.

Bill Clinton sold me two firearms:
1) A "high capacity" handgun, and;
2) An AR-15 "assault weapon".

I bought each just before he was about to ban them.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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So how do we convince the BATF bureaucrats that .50 BMG is being used for sporting purposes

Shoot squirrels with it.

[mnealtx 0]

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Maybe I'm missing something, and heaven forbid I should give ideas to the gun banners, but to me that says only shotguns approved by the paper-pusher can have a bore over half an inch. Did I miss something allowing rifles?

If so, I know someone with a collectible rifle in .505 Gibbs who'd love to stop paying those damned BATFE fees every year.

edit to add: So does having a bore greater than half inch make a firearm Class III, or does it make it illegal straight away? I'm curious after reading about the .700 NitroExpress. (no typo, that says .700)

Sorry about that, Kennedy - there was more down below:

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The term ''destructive device'' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is
redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing,
safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given
by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section
4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or
any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used
as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends
to use solely for sporting purposes.

It's the "sporting purpose" designation that trips up the process over and over again...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Kennedy 0]

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a rifle which the owner intends
to use solely for sporting purposes.

It's the "sporting purpose" designation that trips up the process over and over again...

What a bunch of baloney.

"Well, yes Mr. jack-booted AFT agent, I intend to use this GAU-8 seven barreled 30 mm 1800 rounds/minute firearm solely for sporting purposes."

edit to fix clicky

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[mnealtx 0]

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a rifle which the owner intends
to use solely for sporting purposes.

It's the "sporting purpose" designation that trips up the process over and over again...

What a bunch of baloney.

"Well, yes Mr. jack-booted AFT agent, I intend to use this [url "http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/gau-8.htm"GAU-8 seven barreled 30 mm 1800 rounds/minute[/url] firearm solely for sporting purposes."

Yeah... problem is that the ATF gets to make the sporting purpose decision, not us...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Kennedy 0]

I know that's how they use the law, but if you reallt read it, everything is based on what the owner intends to use it for. How could they show that I intend another purpose?

witty subliminal message
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[JohnRich 4]

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I know that's how they use the law, but if you reallt read it, everything is based on what the owner intends to use it for. How could they show that I intend another purpose?

The BATF gets away with doing all kinds of goofy things. For example, if you have a certain spring used in an M-16 with full-auto capability, they can arrest you for possessing a "machine gun". That's just the spring! They claim that, because given that spring, and a few other parts, and a machine shop, an AR-15 can be turned into a machine gun. Thus, any part required to produce a machine gun, is a machinegun, all by itself.

There was even a case recently where a man used a shoelace with an ingenious way of tying it to the trigger and manipulating it with his hand, that allowed an AR-15 to fire "full auto". The BATF therefore claimed that the shoestring was a machinegun.

[mnealtx 0]

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I know that's how they use the law, but if you reallt read it, everything is based on what the owner intends to use it for. How could they show that I intend another purpose?

Agreed, it's messed up - they get to decide what is "sporting purpose" and what's not.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Guest]

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The best shooters in the world still compete at 1,000 yards. They have ideal conditions, and they still have trouble.

One mile is 1760 yards, so the best in the world have trouble with two thirds of a mile.

Side note: longest recorded kill was by Carlos Hathcock, but he was not using a rifle. He used a single shot from a tripod mounted machine gun that weighs more than a man can carry.

edit: you're right on with your "edit" statements.

Not anymore.

A Canadian spotter/shooter team with a Barrett surpassed Hatchock's record with a shot in Afghanistan.

Oh, BTW - "Any other variant of 50 caliber..." I guess the ownership of this "50 caliber sniper weapon" (see attached) makes me a criminal in Feinstein's eyes. What a misguided, hypocritical cunt.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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I know that's how they use the law, but if you reallt read it, everything is based on what the owner intends to use it for. How could they show that I intend another purpose?

The BATF gets away with doing all kinds of goofy things. For example, if you have a certain spring used in an M-16 with full-auto capability, they can arrest you for possessing a "machine gun". That's just the spring! They claim that, because given that spring, and a few other parts, and a machine shop, an AR-15 can be turned into a machine gun. Thus, any part required to produce a machine gun, is a machinegun, all by itself.

There was even a case recently where a man used a shoelace with an ingenious way of tying it to the trigger and manipulating it with his hand, that allowed an AR-15 to fire "full auto". The BATF therefore claimed that the shoestring was a machinegun.

The BATF is also notorious for charging firearms with crimes. Try googling on "US vs A Collection of Firearms".

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[craddock 0]

I guess the ownership of this "50 caliber sniper weapon" (see attached) makes me a criminal in Feinstein's eyes. What a misguided, hypocritical cunt.***

Dude, please understand the difference between a centerfire rifle and a muzzleloader. Even Modern Muzzlelader firearms that use a #209 primer are not considered a centerfire rifle in terms of these attempted .50 cal. bans.

"rifle capable of firing a center-fire cartridge in .50 caliber, .50 BMG caliber, any other variant of .50 caliber, or any metric equivalent of such calibers
"

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[kallend 2,106]

I was under the impression BATF had its hands full regulating model rocket motors.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Look into the .50 beowulf, or the .50 gibbs. or the rifle being chambered for the new .500 smith and wesson cartidge.

Just because something is .50 centerfire doesn't mean it is a "sniper weapon." That des n't even begin to cover how ridiculuos the ban on .50 BMG rifles is in the first place.

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[craddock 0]

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Look into the .50 beowulf, or the .50 gibbs. or the rifle being chambered for the new .500 smith and wesson cartidge.

Just because something is .50 centerfire doesn't mean it is a "sniper weapon." That des n't even begin to cover how ridiculuos the ban on .50 BMG rifles is in the first place.

Why am I looking at these? I responded to a post where someone suggested their muzzleloader was included in the ban. Where did I imply any .50 cal a sniper rifle. Did I even use the word "sniper"? Wtf

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Kennedy 0]

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Why am I looking at these? I responded to a post where someone suggested their muzzleloader was included in the ban. Where did I imply any .50 cal a sniper rifle. Did I even use the word "sniper"? Wtf

No, you didn't use the word sniper in your post. You used a defintion. And where did you get the definition "rifle capable of firing a center-fire cartridge in .50 caliber, .50 BMG caliber, any other variant of .50 caliber, or any metric equivalent of such calibers," hmm?

It was from a bill with "50 Caliber Sniper Weapon" in the title. It was from the section of that bill that defines what a "50 Caliber Sniper Weapon" is.

Yes, after revisions, the bill now excludes handguns and black powder firearms. Does that mean it makes sense now? Only if you consider all the .50 caliber cartridges I mentioned to be sniper rounds.

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disingenuous (adj.)

1. Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating: “an ambitious, disingenuous, philistine, and hypocritical operator, who... exemplified... the most disagreeable traits of his time” (David Cannadine).
2. Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf.
3. Usage Problem. Unaware or uninformed; naive.

- see "craddock"

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[craddock 0]

I am done with you Kennedy. I neve said these bills make sense or that I support them. I don't know what the fuck your problem is.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.