justinb138 0 #26 May 4, 2005 QuoteI don't blame Wal-mart. As consumers, we choose where to shop. Some people do, which I don't understand. Quote I went to my Wal-Mart looking for a dart board. I asked three different employees and none of them spoke English well enough to help me. They came up with a dry erase board, a magna doodle, and a cork board. OMG...it was extremely frustrating. I finally drew a picture of a dart board and they STILL couldn't help me. That's part of the reason I try to avoid going myself. The only reason I go is if I'm picking up alot of groceries or household items at one time (and then only if I know I don't need any help finding anything). Quote I asked to speak to a manager. I waited for 23 minutes and no manager came. Not an uncommon thing at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteThats only your perception of that person. How do you know .... How do I know? If you'd read the rest of my post I explained how I know. I've asked and gotten the story. And I also explained that my information is anecdotal, so don't think you're breaking new ground with your reflexive response of, "Where are the statistics????" You know, it's very cute that you and drunkmonkey and Ron follow me around nitpicking and challenging everything I post. I really find the attention kind of amusing. I'm finding that having an organized opposition is nearly as invigorating as a cheering section. Well, I have to be honest with you. It goes deeper than that. There is a whole group of us who use PM's to talk about you behing your back. We are right now in the process of plotting something so evil, so despicable, that it will probably change the weather where you live. Life as you now know it will be changed forever. Muhahahaha............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #28 May 4, 2005 ***I don't blame Wal-mart. As consumers, we choose where to shop. Quote Some people do, which I don't understand . I blame Wal-Mart and the "unaware" people that patronize them It's called unfair business practice........its called union busting,its called price fixing,its called using vendors overseas to put your neighbors out of work....lets get rid of all those high paying skilled manufacturing jobs here and repalce them with a bunch of low paying service jobs That will be sure to improve our standard of livingMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #29 May 4, 2005 QuoteYou know, it's very cute that you and drunkmonkey and Ron follow me around nitpicking and challenging everything I post. I really find the attention kind of amusing. Glad I could amuse you...Not my intent...My intent was to point it out when you cry about stuff. Ya know like when you claim "Second class citizen" When you have the SAME rights I do. GM....quiet. Don't spoil the surprize... [Bad Dr. Evil voice]Keep talking and we will be forced to feed you to the mutant angry midget squirrels with lazer's mounted on their heads.[/Bad Dr. Evil voice] Besides he already thinks everyone is out to get him. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #30 May 4, 2005 Quote It's called unfair business practice....... What's is unfair about selling stuff for less money? Quote its called union busting, Given the nature of some unions, I can't say that I blame them. Quote its called price fixing Price fixing? Doubtful. I haven't seen any complaints about them having lower prices yet. Quote its called using vendors overseas to put your neighbors out of work It called using vendors overseas because they can deliver products of near equal quality at lower prices, which means better prices for the consumer and better gains for the stockholders. Quote ....lets get rid of all those high paying skilled manufacturing jobs here and repalce them with a bunch of low paying service jobs Someone has to provide jobs for people that can't get jobs because of a lack of experience or education (which isn't the case for everyone that works there). Wal-mart pays pretty much the same as most retailers. Why are they evil when Albertsons or Target isn't? Quote That will be sure to improve our standard of living Having more money does impove people's standard of living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #31 May 4, 2005 QuoteWe are right now in the process of plotting something so evil... I sure hope it's more interesting than name calling. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #32 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteWe are right now in the process of plotting something so evil... I sure hope it's more interesting than name calling. Please show where I've EVER called you a name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #33 May 4, 2005 QuotePlease show where I've EVER called you a name. I would but someone else would just harrangue me for not using scientific data gathering methods. Anyone else think it's tiresome that these guys keep turning every single thread into a Narcimund-bashing thread? I mean it's flattering and all, but jeez! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #34 May 4, 2005 I think you should just kiss and make up. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #35 May 4, 2005 QuoteI think you should just kiss and make up. That's funny! Can you imagine the reaction if I offered to kiss them? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpjunkie2004 0 #36 May 4, 2005 QuoteI blame Wal-Mart and the "unaware" people that patronize them Have you ever been to a repressed area? There are no other choices. I have the benefit of living in an area where I have choices. Some people are not so lucky. My parents live in a repressed area. Wal-mart is the only choice. Several of my family members have written letters to Target asking them to consider coming to the area. Unfortunately, there is not enough money in the area for it to be lucrative. Do you blame the people that literally have no other options within a 60 mile radius from their homes?Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craichead 0 #37 May 4, 2005 QuoteThat's funny! Can you imagine the reaction if I offered to kiss them? That'd be pretty hot, though...let us know if it happens. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #38 May 4, 2005 Quote What's is unfair about selling stuff for less money? You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? Every time a foreign country does it, the US gets very much involved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #39 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuote How do I know? If you'd read the rest of my post I explained how I know. I've asked and gotten the story. And I also explained that my information is anecdotal, so don't think you're breaking new ground with your reflexive response of, "Where are the statistics???? You claim you know it as a fact based on talking to a few people at one store? You don't know, you just think you do. Well, it's a bit more plausible than a scenario where the guy spent the last 25 years working at a Home Depot built in the last 10. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpjunkie2004 0 #40 May 4, 2005 QuoteIt's called unfair business practice........its called union busting,its called price fixing,its called using vendors overseas to put your neighbors out of work....lets get rid of all those high paying skilled manufacturing jobs here and repalce them with a bunch of low paying service jobs Where were your clothes made? Take them off and look. I did. My capri pants - L.L. Bean - Made in El Salvador My shirt - Old Navy - Made in Sri Lanka My bra - OLGA - Made in Honduras My underwear - no labels - I cut them out. None of these things came from Wal-mart and NONE of them were made in the US. Should I stop shopping at these places too?Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #41 May 4, 2005 Quote You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? There are not any accusations of Walmart taking part in predatory pricing schemes. They are consistent in that they always strive for the lowest price, even after any competition disapears. Remember that the only compeition they do cannibalize tends to be other discounters. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #42 May 4, 2005 QuoteWhat's is unfair about selling stuff for less money? Nothing,unless they use strong arm tactics to eliminate the competition,coerce their vendors into unfair contracts,try to get municipalities to cut them tax breaks etc. Quote Given the nature of some unions, I can't say that I blame them. If good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... QuotePrice fixing? Doubtful. I haven't seen any complaints about them having lower prices yet. Not to their retail customer........ They use loss leaders and other questionable practices to drive the competition out of the marketplace(see some earlier postings here) QuoteIt called using vendors overseas because they can deliver products of near equal quality at lower prices, which means better prices for the consumer and better gains for the stockholders. Riiiiggghhhttttt............ Let's see..... lets destroy our manufacturing sector replace all those jobs with low paying service sector jobs,lets support a Communist government to the tune of 18 billion a year thats got to be good for our long term economic outlook......Hey I didnt even need that MBA to figure that out Quote Someone has to provide jobs for people that can't get jobs because of a lack of experience or education (which isn't the case for everyone that works there). Wal-mart pays pretty much the same as most retailers. Why are they evil when Albertsons or Target isn't? The jobs would be there,small businessmen would hire them........ Albertson's at least in this state is union,Target isn't(to the best of my knowledge) but, Target deals more fairly with everyone.......IMHOMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #43 May 4, 2005 Quote Nothing,unless they use strong arm tactics to eliminate the competition,coerce their vendors into unfair contracts,try to get municipalities to cut them tax breaks etc. Nearly all businesses try to get tax breaks from municipalities. The other two are common business practices as well. Quote If good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... It's pretty simple. If a store isn't making any money, why keep it open? Quote Not to their retail customer........ They use loss leaders and other questionable practices to drive the competition out of the marketplace(see some earlier postings here) ALL retailers use loss leaders, and they are not questionable practices, they're common. Quote Riiiiggghhhttttt............ Let's see..... lets destroy our manufacturing sector replace all those jobs with low paying service sector jobs,lets support a Communist government to the tune of 18 billion a year thats got to be good for our long term economic outlook......Hey I didnt even need that MBA to figure that out If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either. Quote Target deals more fairly with everyone.......IMHO What do you base your opinion on? The media? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuote You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? There are not any accusations of Walmart taking part in predatory pricing schemes. Quote google "walmart predatory pricing" It 's absolutely false that there are no accusations. And not from crackpot whiners, but from government bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #45 May 4, 2005 Quote If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either.Unimpressed ++ What people always seem to assume is that globalization is a zero sum game. "Job gained overseas == job lost in USA", or "factory opened overseas == factory closed in USA". They miss the forest for all the trees. Fortunately for us and for them it's a positive sum game. As the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #46 May 4, 2005 Andy, did you miss my post about Walmart selling gas cheaper then they were able to purchase it from the refinery? I can pull up the numbers next time I talk to the family, but since all the fuel in the US comes from the same refineries... someone is screwing someone over on the gas. Either the refineries are selling it cheaper to Walmart then they do to their own chain locations, or Walmart is using predatory pricing. They already put 2 little gas stations out located with in .5 miles from one in my families town and 1 out at the location right down the road from me. When they are somehow always a full 4-7 cents cheaper then every other gas station in my area something is up. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #47 May 5, 2005 QuoteAs the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. If car manufactors could pay $8 an hour for skilled labor here the average price of a car would drop between $2000 and 6000. But due to the standard of living that Americans are used to manufactors need to pay a lot more to keep their skilled labor. If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Anyone want to work for $2 an hour?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #48 May 5, 2005 Quote Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. No country is self-sufficient, or ever has been. The Rooskies were the last to play that game, and see where it got them. Quote Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Your accounting is way off base. People who lose their jobs to outsourcing don't all remain unemployed for the rest of their lives. Some of them get jobs doing more productive things, or in industries that are more competitive onshore or which can't be offshored as economically. ^^^ edit to add: these three ideas are more or less equivalent. Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? Quote If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Would it upset you if workers in China could live at the same standards of living as Americans? That's what's going to happen, and most of it is going to come from China's standard of living increasing. No competent economists are forecasting depression. Why are you bringing it up? nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #49 May 5, 2005 QuoteIf good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... If EE's want to form a Union, the company has the right to close the store. That is a fact"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #50 May 5, 2005 Quote Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? There is a bit more to it than that. It is my undertanding that Chinese factories do not pay for electricity because it's provided by the government. I wouldn't be surprised if their government takes quite a few other measures to subsidize their manufacturing sector. I'm well aware that I'm opening a can of worms here, but the U.S. cannot compete in part because of the lack of a level playing field. I believe the U.S. government and many U.S. companies are selling out our country's future for today's profits. Japan and China own a considerable amount of the U.S. foreign debt, giving them a powerful weapon should they ever want to trigger a collapse of the U.S. economy. Whether they would ever want to collapse our economy is questionable, BUT they have a powerful negotiating tool at their disposal and we have put it in their hands. We support that threat by continuing to buy their products. We live in a capatalist society and I think that is a good thing, but its continued success requires that we maintain a healthy level of competition. Is WalMart playing by the rules? As far as I know, they are. Is what they are doing good for our country's future? Not entirely. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Ron 10 #29 May 4, 2005 QuoteYou know, it's very cute that you and drunkmonkey and Ron follow me around nitpicking and challenging everything I post. I really find the attention kind of amusing. Glad I could amuse you...Not my intent...My intent was to point it out when you cry about stuff. Ya know like when you claim "Second class citizen" When you have the SAME rights I do. GM....quiet. Don't spoil the surprize... [Bad Dr. Evil voice]Keep talking and we will be forced to feed you to the mutant angry midget squirrels with lazer's mounted on their heads.[/Bad Dr. Evil voice] Besides he already thinks everyone is out to get him. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #30 May 4, 2005 Quote It's called unfair business practice....... What's is unfair about selling stuff for less money? Quote its called union busting, Given the nature of some unions, I can't say that I blame them. Quote its called price fixing Price fixing? Doubtful. I haven't seen any complaints about them having lower prices yet. Quote its called using vendors overseas to put your neighbors out of work It called using vendors overseas because they can deliver products of near equal quality at lower prices, which means better prices for the consumer and better gains for the stockholders. Quote ....lets get rid of all those high paying skilled manufacturing jobs here and repalce them with a bunch of low paying service jobs Someone has to provide jobs for people that can't get jobs because of a lack of experience or education (which isn't the case for everyone that works there). Wal-mart pays pretty much the same as most retailers. Why are they evil when Albertsons or Target isn't? Quote That will be sure to improve our standard of living Having more money does impove people's standard of living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #31 May 4, 2005 QuoteWe are right now in the process of plotting something so evil... I sure hope it's more interesting than name calling. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteWe are right now in the process of plotting something so evil... I sure hope it's more interesting than name calling. Please show where I've EVER called you a name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #33 May 4, 2005 QuotePlease show where I've EVER called you a name. I would but someone else would just harrangue me for not using scientific data gathering methods. Anyone else think it's tiresome that these guys keep turning every single thread into a Narcimund-bashing thread? I mean it's flattering and all, but jeez! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #34 May 4, 2005 I think you should just kiss and make up. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #35 May 4, 2005 QuoteI think you should just kiss and make up. That's funny! Can you imagine the reaction if I offered to kiss them? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #36 May 4, 2005 QuoteI blame Wal-Mart and the "unaware" people that patronize them Have you ever been to a repressed area? There are no other choices. I have the benefit of living in an area where I have choices. Some people are not so lucky. My parents live in a repressed area. Wal-mart is the only choice. Several of my family members have written letters to Target asking them to consider coming to the area. Unfortunately, there is not enough money in the area for it to be lucrative. Do you blame the people that literally have no other options within a 60 mile radius from their homes?Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #37 May 4, 2005 QuoteThat's funny! Can you imagine the reaction if I offered to kiss them? That'd be pretty hot, though...let us know if it happens. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #38 May 4, 2005 Quote What's is unfair about selling stuff for less money? You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? Every time a foreign country does it, the US gets very much involved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #39 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuote How do I know? If you'd read the rest of my post I explained how I know. I've asked and gotten the story. And I also explained that my information is anecdotal, so don't think you're breaking new ground with your reflexive response of, "Where are the statistics???? You claim you know it as a fact based on talking to a few people at one store? You don't know, you just think you do. Well, it's a bit more plausible than a scenario where the guy spent the last 25 years working at a Home Depot built in the last 10. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #40 May 4, 2005 QuoteIt's called unfair business practice........its called union busting,its called price fixing,its called using vendors overseas to put your neighbors out of work....lets get rid of all those high paying skilled manufacturing jobs here and repalce them with a bunch of low paying service jobs Where were your clothes made? Take them off and look. I did. My capri pants - L.L. Bean - Made in El Salvador My shirt - Old Navy - Made in Sri Lanka My bra - OLGA - Made in Honduras My underwear - no labels - I cut them out. None of these things came from Wal-mart and NONE of them were made in the US. Should I stop shopping at these places too?Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #41 May 4, 2005 Quote You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? There are not any accusations of Walmart taking part in predatory pricing schemes. They are consistent in that they always strive for the lowest price, even after any competition disapears. Remember that the only compeition they do cannibalize tends to be other discounters. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #42 May 4, 2005 QuoteWhat's is unfair about selling stuff for less money? Nothing,unless they use strong arm tactics to eliminate the competition,coerce their vendors into unfair contracts,try to get municipalities to cut them tax breaks etc. Quote Given the nature of some unions, I can't say that I blame them. If good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... QuotePrice fixing? Doubtful. I haven't seen any complaints about them having lower prices yet. Not to their retail customer........ They use loss leaders and other questionable practices to drive the competition out of the marketplace(see some earlier postings here) QuoteIt called using vendors overseas because they can deliver products of near equal quality at lower prices, which means better prices for the consumer and better gains for the stockholders. Riiiiggghhhttttt............ Let's see..... lets destroy our manufacturing sector replace all those jobs with low paying service sector jobs,lets support a Communist government to the tune of 18 billion a year thats got to be good for our long term economic outlook......Hey I didnt even need that MBA to figure that out Quote Someone has to provide jobs for people that can't get jobs because of a lack of experience or education (which isn't the case for everyone that works there). Wal-mart pays pretty much the same as most retailers. Why are they evil when Albertsons or Target isn't? The jobs would be there,small businessmen would hire them........ Albertson's at least in this state is union,Target isn't(to the best of my knowledge) but, Target deals more fairly with everyone.......IMHOMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #43 May 4, 2005 Quote Nothing,unless they use strong arm tactics to eliminate the competition,coerce their vendors into unfair contracts,try to get municipalities to cut them tax breaks etc. Nearly all businesses try to get tax breaks from municipalities. The other two are common business practices as well. Quote If good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... It's pretty simple. If a store isn't making any money, why keep it open? Quote Not to their retail customer........ They use loss leaders and other questionable practices to drive the competition out of the marketplace(see some earlier postings here) ALL retailers use loss leaders, and they are not questionable practices, they're common. Quote Riiiiggghhhttttt............ Let's see..... lets destroy our manufacturing sector replace all those jobs with low paying service sector jobs,lets support a Communist government to the tune of 18 billion a year thats got to be good for our long term economic outlook......Hey I didnt even need that MBA to figure that out If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either. Quote Target deals more fairly with everyone.......IMHO What do you base your opinion on? The media? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuote You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? There are not any accusations of Walmart taking part in predatory pricing schemes. Quote google "walmart predatory pricing" It 's absolutely false that there are no accusations. And not from crackpot whiners, but from government bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #45 May 4, 2005 Quote If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either.Unimpressed ++ What people always seem to assume is that globalization is a zero sum game. "Job gained overseas == job lost in USA", or "factory opened overseas == factory closed in USA". They miss the forest for all the trees. Fortunately for us and for them it's a positive sum game. As the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #46 May 4, 2005 Andy, did you miss my post about Walmart selling gas cheaper then they were able to purchase it from the refinery? I can pull up the numbers next time I talk to the family, but since all the fuel in the US comes from the same refineries... someone is screwing someone over on the gas. Either the refineries are selling it cheaper to Walmart then they do to their own chain locations, or Walmart is using predatory pricing. They already put 2 little gas stations out located with in .5 miles from one in my families town and 1 out at the location right down the road from me. When they are somehow always a full 4-7 cents cheaper then every other gas station in my area something is up. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #47 May 5, 2005 QuoteAs the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. If car manufactors could pay $8 an hour for skilled labor here the average price of a car would drop between $2000 and 6000. But due to the standard of living that Americans are used to manufactors need to pay a lot more to keep their skilled labor. If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Anyone want to work for $2 an hour?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #48 May 5, 2005 Quote Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. No country is self-sufficient, or ever has been. The Rooskies were the last to play that game, and see where it got them. Quote Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Your accounting is way off base. People who lose their jobs to outsourcing don't all remain unemployed for the rest of their lives. Some of them get jobs doing more productive things, or in industries that are more competitive onshore or which can't be offshored as economically. ^^^ edit to add: these three ideas are more or less equivalent. Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? Quote If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Would it upset you if workers in China could live at the same standards of living as Americans? That's what's going to happen, and most of it is going to come from China's standard of living increasing. No competent economists are forecasting depression. Why are you bringing it up? nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #49 May 5, 2005 QuoteIf good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... If EE's want to form a Union, the company has the right to close the store. That is a fact"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #50 May 5, 2005 Quote Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? There is a bit more to it than that. It is my undertanding that Chinese factories do not pay for electricity because it's provided by the government. I wouldn't be surprised if their government takes quite a few other measures to subsidize their manufacturing sector. I'm well aware that I'm opening a can of worms here, but the U.S. cannot compete in part because of the lack of a level playing field. I believe the U.S. government and many U.S. companies are selling out our country's future for today's profits. Japan and China own a considerable amount of the U.S. foreign debt, giving them a powerful weapon should they ever want to trigger a collapse of the U.S. economy. Whether they would ever want to collapse our economy is questionable, BUT they have a powerful negotiating tool at their disposal and we have put it in their hands. We support that threat by continuing to buy their products. We live in a capatalist society and I think that is a good thing, but its continued success requires that we maintain a healthy level of competition. Is WalMart playing by the rules? As far as I know, they are. Is what they are doing good for our country's future? Not entirely. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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justinb138 0 #43 May 4, 2005 Quote Nothing,unless they use strong arm tactics to eliminate the competition,coerce their vendors into unfair contracts,try to get municipalities to cut them tax breaks etc. Nearly all businesses try to get tax breaks from municipalities. The other two are common business practices as well. Quote If good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... It's pretty simple. If a store isn't making any money, why keep it open? Quote Not to their retail customer........ They use loss leaders and other questionable practices to drive the competition out of the marketplace(see some earlier postings here) ALL retailers use loss leaders, and they are not questionable practices, they're common. Quote Riiiiggghhhttttt............ Let's see..... lets destroy our manufacturing sector replace all those jobs with low paying service sector jobs,lets support a Communist government to the tune of 18 billion a year thats got to be good for our long term economic outlook......Hey I didnt even need that MBA to figure that out If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either. Quote Target deals more fairly with everyone.......IMHO What do you base your opinion on? The media? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #44 May 4, 2005 QuoteQuote You don't see any issues with a deep pocket concern selling goods at below cost until the competition is out of business, then raise the prices? There are not any accusations of Walmart taking part in predatory pricing schemes. Quote google "walmart predatory pricing" It 's absolutely false that there are no accusations. And not from crackpot whiners, but from government bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #45 May 4, 2005 Quote If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either.Unimpressed ++ What people always seem to assume is that globalization is a zero sum game. "Job gained overseas == job lost in USA", or "factory opened overseas == factory closed in USA". They miss the forest for all the trees. Fortunately for us and for them it's a positive sum game. As the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #46 May 4, 2005 Andy, did you miss my post about Walmart selling gas cheaper then they were able to purchase it from the refinery? I can pull up the numbers next time I talk to the family, but since all the fuel in the US comes from the same refineries... someone is screwing someone over on the gas. Either the refineries are selling it cheaper to Walmart then they do to their own chain locations, or Walmart is using predatory pricing. They already put 2 little gas stations out located with in .5 miles from one in my families town and 1 out at the location right down the road from me. When they are somehow always a full 4-7 cents cheaper then every other gas station in my area something is up. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #47 May 5, 2005 QuoteAs the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. If car manufactors could pay $8 an hour for skilled labor here the average price of a car would drop between $2000 and 6000. But due to the standard of living that Americans are used to manufactors need to pay a lot more to keep their skilled labor. If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Anyone want to work for $2 an hour?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #48 May 5, 2005 Quote Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. No country is self-sufficient, or ever has been. The Rooskies were the last to play that game, and see where it got them. Quote Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Your accounting is way off base. People who lose their jobs to outsourcing don't all remain unemployed for the rest of their lives. Some of them get jobs doing more productive things, or in industries that are more competitive onshore or which can't be offshored as economically. ^^^ edit to add: these three ideas are more or less equivalent. Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? Quote If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Would it upset you if workers in China could live at the same standards of living as Americans? That's what's going to happen, and most of it is going to come from China's standard of living increasing. No competent economists are forecasting depression. Why are you bringing it up? nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #49 May 5, 2005 QuoteIf good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... If EE's want to form a Union, the company has the right to close the store. That is a fact"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #50 May 5, 2005 Quote Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? There is a bit more to it than that. It is my undertanding that Chinese factories do not pay for electricity because it's provided by the government. I wouldn't be surprised if their government takes quite a few other measures to subsidize their manufacturing sector. I'm well aware that I'm opening a can of worms here, but the U.S. cannot compete in part because of the lack of a level playing field. I believe the U.S. government and many U.S. companies are selling out our country's future for today's profits. Japan and China own a considerable amount of the U.S. foreign debt, giving them a powerful weapon should they ever want to trigger a collapse of the U.S. economy. Whether they would ever want to collapse our economy is questionable, BUT they have a powerful negotiating tool at their disposal and we have put it in their hands. We support that threat by continuing to buy their products. We live in a capatalist society and I think that is a good thing, but its continued success requires that we maintain a healthy level of competition. Is WalMart playing by the rules? As far as I know, they are. Is what they are doing good for our country's future? Not entirely. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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nathaniel 0 #45 May 4, 2005 Quote If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. You don't need an MBA to figure that out either.Unimpressed ++ What people always seem to assume is that globalization is a zero sum game. "Job gained overseas == job lost in USA", or "factory opened overseas == factory closed in USA". They miss the forest for all the trees. Fortunately for us and for them it's a positive sum game. As the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #46 May 4, 2005 Andy, did you miss my post about Walmart selling gas cheaper then they were able to purchase it from the refinery? I can pull up the numbers next time I talk to the family, but since all the fuel in the US comes from the same refineries... someone is screwing someone over on the gas. Either the refineries are selling it cheaper to Walmart then they do to their own chain locations, or Walmart is using predatory pricing. They already put 2 little gas stations out located with in .5 miles from one in my families town and 1 out at the location right down the road from me. When they are somehow always a full 4-7 cents cheaper then every other gas station in my area something is up. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #47 May 5, 2005 QuoteAs the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. If car manufactors could pay $8 an hour for skilled labor here the average price of a car would drop between $2000 and 6000. But due to the standard of living that Americans are used to manufactors need to pay a lot more to keep their skilled labor. If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Anyone want to work for $2 an hour?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #48 May 5, 2005 Quote Yes, that is true but if the foreign country is able to provide all of those good and services inhouse already it is a zero sum game. No country is self-sufficient, or ever has been. The Rooskies were the last to play that game, and see where it got them. Quote Until the day that it is cheaper for the average imported car in China to be American over a domestic model (for them) they do not continue to contribute to the economy here at all. Your accounting is way off base. People who lose their jobs to outsourcing don't all remain unemployed for the rest of their lives. Some of them get jobs doing more productive things, or in industries that are more competitive onshore or which can't be offshored as economically. ^^^ edit to add: these three ideas are more or less equivalent. Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? Quote If they could drop the wage to less then $2 per hour like what some factories in China are paying their employees then American goods would be competitive on the global stage for pricing again. Would it upset you if workers in China could live at the same standards of living as Americans? That's what's going to happen, and most of it is going to come from China's standard of living increasing. No competent economists are forecasting depression. Why are you bringing it up? nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #49 May 5, 2005 QuoteIf good ol' Wal-Mart was such a great place to work,employees I suppose would have no need to unionize........When a Wal-Mart in Ontario,Canada voted to unionize,Wal-Mart pulled the plug on the entire store.........sounds like union busting to me..... If EE's want to form a Union, the company has the right to close the store. That is a fact"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #50 May 5, 2005 Quote Quote Manufactors here are at an automatic disadvantage due to the minimum wage and standard of living that Americans are used to. This devolves into a nationalist argument. Why should consumers be forced to support someone else's standard of living when it costs them their own? There is a bit more to it than that. It is my undertanding that Chinese factories do not pay for electricity because it's provided by the government. I wouldn't be surprised if their government takes quite a few other measures to subsidize their manufacturing sector. I'm well aware that I'm opening a can of worms here, but the U.S. cannot compete in part because of the lack of a level playing field. I believe the U.S. government and many U.S. companies are selling out our country's future for today's profits. Japan and China own a considerable amount of the U.S. foreign debt, giving them a powerful weapon should they ever want to trigger a collapse of the U.S. economy. Whether they would ever want to collapse our economy is questionable, BUT they have a powerful negotiating tool at their disposal and we have put it in their hands. We support that threat by continuing to buy their products. We live in a capatalist society and I think that is a good thing, but its continued success requires that we maintain a healthy level of competition. Is WalMart playing by the rules? As far as I know, they are. Is what they are doing good for our country's future? Not entirely. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
