kelpdiver 2 #51 May 5, 2005 QuoteFortunately for us and for them it's a positive sum game. As the economies of foreign places rise, so does their need for cheap crap, cars, airplanes, computers, services & practically everything else. That would work better if IP were respected in these developing nations. We still produce movies and software here, but piracy is rampant. Hardware designs are copycatted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #52 May 5, 2005 Quote Japan and China own a considerable amount of the U.S. foreign debt, giving them a powerful weapon should they ever want to trigger a collapse of the U.S. economy. Whether they would ever want to collapse our economy is questionable, You are only considering half the equation. The US is more valuable to China than vice-versa. They only make up 20% or so of our trade, we make up a much greater proportion of theirs (their economy is yet much smaller for the same trade). There is no credible threat. Quote We support that threat by continuing to buy their products. We support only ourselves by buying the best-priced goods on the market. To suggest otherwise should be immediately false. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #53 May 5, 2005 Quote That would work better if IP were respected in these developing nations. We still produce movies and software here, but piracy is rampant. Hardware designs are copycatted. Ha! Don't even get me started nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #54 May 5, 2005 Quote There is a bit more to it than that. It is my undertanding that Chinese factories do not pay for electricity because it's provided by the government. I wouldn't be surprised if their government takes quite a few other measures to subsidize their manufacturing sector. That's an argument against free trade, but not against globalization. And IMO it's mostly spot on. As long as there are substantive regulatory & subsidy differences between countries there could be justification for tariffs. That's what the WTO was intended to work out, in order to facilitate globalization. The US has its own set of subsidies, agriculture, defense, &c. On the other hand China's the worse off for having much of Europe, the Middle East and Asia upwind. Their pollution lands in China. In a global economists wet dream India & the like would have to subsidize China for all the ill effects of that pollution. It's not likely to ever happen, at least not in our lifetimes.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #55 May 5, 2005 QuoteQuote Japan and China own a considerable amount of the U.S. foreign debt, giving them a powerful weapon should they ever want to trigger a collapse of the U.S. economy. Whether they would ever want to collapse our economy is questionable, You are only considering half the equation. The US is more valuable to China than vice-versa. They only make up 20% or so of our trade, we make up a much greater proportion of theirs (their economy is yet much smaller for the same trade). There is no credible threat. Quote We support that threat by continuing to buy their products. We support only ourselves by buying the best-priced goods on the market. To suggest otherwise should be immediately false. nathaniel I understand what you are saying, but the numbers are very scary. Here are some numbers from the U.S. Treasury website (http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt) MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES (in billions of dollars) HOLDINGS 1/ AT END OF Jan 2005 COUNTRY Japan - 701.0 Mainland China - 195.2 United Kingdom - 160.7 Caribbean Banking Centers 2/ - 92.6 Korea - 67.7 OPEC - 64.7 Germany - 60.3 Taiwan - 58.9 Switzerland - 49.6 Hong Kong - 52.9 Canada - 43.3 There may not be a credible threat now, i.e., China would be screwing themselves by screwing us, but whose to say that situtation will last forever? Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #56 May 5, 2005 Quote There may not be a credible threat now, i.e., China would be screwing themselves by screwing us, but whose to say that situtation will last forever? Pretty much the laws of physics I mean, if an asteroid were to strike the Earth that would change everything, right? Propping up a currency, esp a foreign currency, is a fairly difficult thing to do. It will get to the point where it becomes so expensive that it's no longer worthwhile. It's a hot issue right now, because it seems China is approaching that point. Dropping the whole thing on the floor would yield to enormous shocks to the world economy, and worst of all inside China. It would likely destabilize the entire country. edit to add: much more likely they will back off gradually, and the US will experience some devaluation while the yuan soars. US exports will pick up, China exports will dip, and the US gov't will have to relearn fiscal discipline. Decidedly ho-hum. Rarely in macroeconomics do bold things like that ever happen all at once, and when they do they tend to be diastrous for all parties involved. Now, China has shown no indication of wanting to commit economic suicide since at least the 1970's. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 May 5, 2005 Quote On the other hand China's the worse off for having much of Europe, the Middle East and Asia upwind. Their pollution lands in China. So....the burning of coal for power everywhere wasn't the cause, now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #58 May 5, 2005 Quote Andy, did you miss my post about Walmart selling gas cheaper then they were able to purchase it from the refinery? Nope. There's nothing stopping your family from selling discount cards. That method of discounting has exsited for much longer than Walmart. As a kid in Canada, I remember my parents were part of a "discount program" at the local gas station. They had a card that was just like those 'buy 10 coffes, get one free' cards. The attendant would cut out a square each time they filled up, and after 10 fillups they'd get one free. Either way, gasoline is a commodity, and by definition the selling of comodoties has always been a dog eat dog world. Gas stations have been doing out of business for a lot longer than Walmart has been around. People used to complain about the oil companies putting independant gas stations out of business. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #59 May 5, 2005 Quote So....the burning of coal for power everywhere wasn't the cause, now. Coal causes pollution too, duh. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #60 May 5, 2005 QuoteNearly all businesses try to get tax breaks from municipalities. The other two are common business practices as well. True.........but not to the extreme that Wal-Mart carries it to. Quote It's pretty simple. If a store isn't making any money, why keep it open? A Wal-Mart not make money? QuoteALL retailers use loss leaders, and they are not questionable practices, they're common. Yes they are common,BUT when used in a predatory manner to eliminate the competition (please refer to Phreezones comments in this thread for a personal account)that's not Quote If the manufacturers here are less efficient than those in China, that's what happens. If someone can get something of similar quality from China, why pay more for something that's made here? It is capitalism at work. Let's see........they get "free power".......Chinese Factories trash the enviroment,and they dont have to observe the same liability laws that we are burdened with..........yeah that's a real level playing field So you keep buying that Chinese crap at Wal-Mart and I will spend my dollars elsewhereMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #61 May 5, 2005 Quote True.........but not to the extreme that Wal-Mart carries it to. Hey, whatever they are doing is working. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it works. Quote A Wal-Mart not make money? It happens, especially in stores that just open. Quote Yes they are common,BUT when used in a predatory manner to eliminate the competition (please refer to Phreezones comments in this thread for a personal account)that's not I belive the primary purpose for loss leaders is to get people into the store to buy other stuff while they're there. It's a smart thing to do, and it is necessary to compete with other retailers, as they do it too. Alot of the smaller retailers can't do it because they can't make up the loss as easy. It's not predatory, it is just an unfortunate side effect of the bigger stores trying to increase sales. Quote So you keep buying that Chinese crap at Wal-Mart and I will spend my dollars elsewhere It's hard to avoid buying some Chinese stuff, as so many things are made there, but I do avoid Wal-Mart if possible (stores in my area are always way too crowded and it's a pain in the ass to shop there). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #62 May 5, 2005 QuoteQuote Where were your clothes made? Take them off and look. I did. My capri pants - L.L. Bean - Made in El Salvador My shirt - Old Navy - Made in Sri Lanka My bra - OLGA - Made in Honduras My underwear - no labels - I cut them out. None of these things came from Wal-mart and NONE of them were made in the US. Hey look, there'sa naked chick in SC!illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumper03 0 #63 May 5, 2005 WOOHOO!! My deodorant is made in the USA!! Finally, something.....Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #64 May 5, 2005 This http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Martillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #65 May 5, 2005 QuoteThis http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Mart Yup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks. That's one of the reasons I try to avoid the place if possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #66 May 5, 2005 QuoteYup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #67 May 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThis http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Mart Yup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks. That's one of the reasons I try to avoid the place if possible. Heh, heh. Except the customers are Mickey Mouse and Goofy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #68 May 5, 2005 Goofy was never as fat as 80% of the folks in the Wal-mart near me... Seems like all the $$ those people save is going to the McD's across the streetillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #69 May 5, 2005 QuoteGoofy was never as fat as 80% of the folks in the Wal-mart near me... Seems like all the $$ those people save is going to the McD's across the street Hell, they have McD's inside some of the walmart stores here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #70 May 5, 2005 I've noticed this as well when I try to buy shirts at Walmart. They're HUGE there! And half their clothes are in the "Big & Tall section. I usually wear a L or M. Once I bought a golf shirt there, and I had to buy a Small, and it was cut way big around the belly area. I had to fold up all the slack a lot just to tuck it in. (actually, that's the speedracer shirt shown in my avatar. I added a yellow G & white collar) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Keith 0 #71 May 6, 2005 Yep, U.S. manufacturers are moving to China. In my Macro Economics class the other day we watched an episode of Frontline and the topic was Wal Mart. One of the manufacturers interviewed was Rubber Made. They were closing their plant and moving to China because the couldn't afford to do business in the U.S. The major reason was that Wal Mart refused to pay the prices they required to stay in business. The good news is a new Wal Mart is opening down the street and will employ most of the laid off factory workers - but at half their previous salary. They are also NOT the low price leader. The low price gimmick was devised by Sam Walton many moons ago when he had his first five and dime. The idea is to put stuff out front and price it at a loss to attract the customer, then price the rest of the merchandise at prices that are often higher than the competition - according to a former Wal Mart VP. Excellent marketing ploy, but a bit deceiving. Wal Mart is a blight; society will eventually figure it out - I hope.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #72 May 6, 2005 QuoteOnce I bought a golf shirt there, and I had to buy a Small, and it was cut way big around the belly area. I had to fold up all the slack a lot just to tuck it in. That's more of a 'Fat America' thread bit than a WalMart thing. But it's true - it's getting near impossible to get trim cut clothes any more (wider at the shoulder than the waist). While straight down cut and "pear shape" is plentiful. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #73 May 6, 2005 I've removed the endless string of Ron v. Narcimund posts from this thread. Can we try to keep this thread on topic, guys? If you want to discuss gay marriage, you can start a new thread for that. If you want to talk about other poster's personal beliefs or choices, I'd recommend taking it to PM or email.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #74 May 6, 2005 thanks, Tom. I thought about suggesting that, but wasn't sure if that duty should be dumped on the moderators in SC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
justinb138 0 #61 May 5, 2005 Quote True.........but not to the extreme that Wal-Mart carries it to. Hey, whatever they are doing is working. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it works. Quote A Wal-Mart not make money? It happens, especially in stores that just open. Quote Yes they are common,BUT when used in a predatory manner to eliminate the competition (please refer to Phreezones comments in this thread for a personal account)that's not I belive the primary purpose for loss leaders is to get people into the store to buy other stuff while they're there. It's a smart thing to do, and it is necessary to compete with other retailers, as they do it too. Alot of the smaller retailers can't do it because they can't make up the loss as easy. It's not predatory, it is just an unfortunate side effect of the bigger stores trying to increase sales. Quote So you keep buying that Chinese crap at Wal-Mart and I will spend my dollars elsewhere It's hard to avoid buying some Chinese stuff, as so many things are made there, but I do avoid Wal-Mart if possible (stores in my area are always way too crowded and it's a pain in the ass to shop there). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #62 May 5, 2005 QuoteQuote Where were your clothes made? Take them off and look. I did. My capri pants - L.L. Bean - Made in El Salvador My shirt - Old Navy - Made in Sri Lanka My bra - OLGA - Made in Honduras My underwear - no labels - I cut them out. None of these things came from Wal-mart and NONE of them were made in the US. Hey look, there'sa naked chick in SC!illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #63 May 5, 2005 WOOHOO!! My deodorant is made in the USA!! Finally, something.....Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #64 May 5, 2005 This http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Martillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #65 May 5, 2005 QuoteThis http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Mart Yup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks. That's one of the reasons I try to avoid the place if possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #66 May 5, 2005 QuoteYup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #67 May 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThis http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Mart Yup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks. That's one of the reasons I try to avoid the place if possible. Heh, heh. Except the customers are Mickey Mouse and Goofy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #68 May 5, 2005 Goofy was never as fat as 80% of the folks in the Wal-mart near me... Seems like all the $$ those people save is going to the McD's across the streetillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #69 May 5, 2005 QuoteGoofy was never as fat as 80% of the folks in the Wal-mart near me... Seems like all the $$ those people save is going to the McD's across the street Hell, they have McD's inside some of the walmart stores here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #70 May 5, 2005 I've noticed this as well when I try to buy shirts at Walmart. They're HUGE there! And half their clothes are in the "Big & Tall section. I usually wear a L or M. Once I bought a golf shirt there, and I had to buy a Small, and it was cut way big around the belly area. I had to fold up all the slack a lot just to tuck it in. (actually, that's the speedracer shirt shown in my avatar. I added a yellow G & white collar) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Keith 0 #71 May 6, 2005 Yep, U.S. manufacturers are moving to China. In my Macro Economics class the other day we watched an episode of Frontline and the topic was Wal Mart. One of the manufacturers interviewed was Rubber Made. They were closing their plant and moving to China because the couldn't afford to do business in the U.S. The major reason was that Wal Mart refused to pay the prices they required to stay in business. The good news is a new Wal Mart is opening down the street and will employ most of the laid off factory workers - but at half their previous salary. They are also NOT the low price leader. The low price gimmick was devised by Sam Walton many moons ago when he had his first five and dime. The idea is to put stuff out front and price it at a loss to attract the customer, then price the rest of the merchandise at prices that are often higher than the competition - according to a former Wal Mart VP. Excellent marketing ploy, but a bit deceiving. Wal Mart is a blight; society will eventually figure it out - I hope.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #72 May 6, 2005 QuoteOnce I bought a golf shirt there, and I had to buy a Small, and it was cut way big around the belly area. I had to fold up all the slack a lot just to tuck it in. That's more of a 'Fat America' thread bit than a WalMart thing. But it's true - it's getting near impossible to get trim cut clothes any more (wider at the shoulder than the waist). While straight down cut and "pear shape" is plentiful. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #73 May 6, 2005 I've removed the endless string of Ron v. Narcimund posts from this thread. Can we try to keep this thread on topic, guys? If you want to discuss gay marriage, you can start a new thread for that. If you want to talk about other poster's personal beliefs or choices, I'd recommend taking it to PM or email.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #74 May 6, 2005 thanks, Tom. I thought about suggesting that, but wasn't sure if that duty should be dumped on the moderators in SC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Gravitymaster 0 #67 May 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThis http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/05/national/main693068.shtml is the REAL reason I don't shop at Wal-Mart Yup, Wal-Mart is like Disneyland for rednecks. That's one of the reasons I try to avoid the place if possible. Heh, heh. Except the customers are Mickey Mouse and Goofy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #68 May 5, 2005 Goofy was never as fat as 80% of the folks in the Wal-mart near me... Seems like all the $$ those people save is going to the McD's across the streetillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #69 May 5, 2005 QuoteGoofy was never as fat as 80% of the folks in the Wal-mart near me... Seems like all the $$ those people save is going to the McD's across the street Hell, they have McD's inside some of the walmart stores here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #70 May 5, 2005 I've noticed this as well when I try to buy shirts at Walmart. They're HUGE there! And half their clothes are in the "Big & Tall section. I usually wear a L or M. Once I bought a golf shirt there, and I had to buy a Small, and it was cut way big around the belly area. I had to fold up all the slack a lot just to tuck it in. (actually, that's the speedracer shirt shown in my avatar. I added a yellow G & white collar) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #71 May 6, 2005 Yep, U.S. manufacturers are moving to China. In my Macro Economics class the other day we watched an episode of Frontline and the topic was Wal Mart. One of the manufacturers interviewed was Rubber Made. They were closing their plant and moving to China because the couldn't afford to do business in the U.S. The major reason was that Wal Mart refused to pay the prices they required to stay in business. The good news is a new Wal Mart is opening down the street and will employ most of the laid off factory workers - but at half their previous salary. They are also NOT the low price leader. The low price gimmick was devised by Sam Walton many moons ago when he had his first five and dime. The idea is to put stuff out front and price it at a loss to attract the customer, then price the rest of the merchandise at prices that are often higher than the competition - according to a former Wal Mart VP. Excellent marketing ploy, but a bit deceiving. Wal Mart is a blight; society will eventually figure it out - I hope.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #72 May 6, 2005 QuoteOnce I bought a golf shirt there, and I had to buy a Small, and it was cut way big around the belly area. I had to fold up all the slack a lot just to tuck it in. That's more of a 'Fat America' thread bit than a WalMart thing. But it's true - it's getting near impossible to get trim cut clothes any more (wider at the shoulder than the waist). While straight down cut and "pear shape" is plentiful. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #73 May 6, 2005 I've removed the endless string of Ron v. Narcimund posts from this thread. Can we try to keep this thread on topic, guys? If you want to discuss gay marriage, you can start a new thread for that. If you want to talk about other poster's personal beliefs or choices, I'd recommend taking it to PM or email.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #74 May 6, 2005 thanks, Tom. I thought about suggesting that, but wasn't sure if that duty should be dumped on the moderators in SC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
