Duckwater 0 #1 May 6, 2005 These are pics of an accident I was witness to a few years back in San Bernardino. A wrecker sideswiped me and we pulled over, blocking one of the two EB lanes. I was standing at the front left corner of my car talking to my insurance company when this truck came by real slow turning right into the driveway right in front of us. This guy on a Harley thought he was going slow and (as they only do in CA) gunned it and tried to shoot the gap. He hit the fender of the truck doing 50 at least. I was standing maybe 3 feet from all this. I can still hear him go "ummmppph" when he hit. Stuff was flying everywhere and I didn't realize what was happening until I looked up and saw him and his bike sliding across the pavement. He took out this sign with his body. I ran over thinking this was not going to be pretty. It was not. The sign laying on him was covering him until I moved it. The fiberglass fender basically decapitated him. The amount of blood coming out of him was unbelieveable. You never want to see someones final seconds, trust me. He was hot-rodding by all accounts. The guy driving the truck he hit never got out of the truck the whole time he was so fucked up and it bothered me a bit too for a while. I felt bad until the assholes family sued everyone else involved, including me for being parked on the side of the road. Fuck them. Just yesterday they had I-35 shut down in Ft Worth because someone rear enderd a bike. The harley embedded itself in the front of this car and looked pretty good actually, the rear wheel of the harley was up to the windshield of the car. They life-flighted the guy out. I will never ride a motorcycle on the street. -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 May 6, 2005 Quote I will never ride a motorcycle on the street. But you'll keep skydiving, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duckwater 0 #3 May 6, 2005 QuoteBut you'll keep skydiving, eh? Sure, I trust all you crazy fuckers. I need a couple tons of Caddy Steel or the 8 airbags in my Accord to protect me from these Fucking Texas Soccer Moms on their cell phones taking their daughters to Cheerleading/Stripper practice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #4 May 6, 2005 Now that was one dumb ass, thinking he could make the gap, on a motorcycle no less... I agree his family was full of shit for trying to sue for his death. I hope they lost the court case... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base283 0 #5 May 7, 2005 So when are you guys gonna start posting pics of skydiving fatality scenes? Just wondering. take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #6 May 7, 2005 QuoteSo when are you guys gonna start posting pics of skydiving fatality scenes? Just wondering. take care, space You have to visit the Motorcycle rider web sites to see those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #7 May 7, 2005 Perhaps as soon as such posters finds out that mod's do not intervene? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #8 May 9, 2005 QuoteNow that was one dumb ass, thinking he could make the gap, on a motorcycle no less... Please... Here you go again. He took a chance shooting the gap with a bike, yet you take a chance aswell on every skydive. If he is a dumb ass, then so am I aswell as yourself. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ahegeman 0 #9 May 9, 2005 Quote Please... Here you go again. He took a chance shooting the gap with a bike, yet you take a chance aswell on every skydive. If he is a dumb ass, then so am I aswell as yourself. That's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #10 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuote Please... Here you go again. He took a chance shooting the gap with a bike, yet you take a chance aswell on every skydive. If he is a dumb ass, then so am I aswell as yourself. That's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. It is rare someone driving a car or truck is injured when it collides with a motorcycle. So the motorcyclist for the most part is only putting their own life in danger. You most certainly are putting others lives in danger when you skydive. If you track too fast and take out a formation, cork during a freefly jump or open your canopy too close to someone else when it results in a collision, death or serious injury can occur. You also are putting many others lives in danger if you don't keep your closing loop in good condition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #11 May 9, 2005 Quote That's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. The odds might be less in skydiving but, there is still a chance. There is no difference in my eye. I agree to disagree with you. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #12 May 9, 2005 Quote When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. Please back this statement up with some facts. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ahegeman 0 #13 May 9, 2005 QuoteYou most certainly are putting others lives in danger when you skydive. If you track too fast and take out a formation, cork during a freefly jump or open your canopy too close to someone else when it results in a collision, death or serious injury can occur. You also are putting many others lives in danger if you don't keep your closing loop in good condition. I am well aware of that dangers of skydiving, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a motorcycle trying to shoot a gap beside a moving vehicle a few feet from where someone is standing is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a skydive.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #14 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou most certainly are putting others lives in danger when you skydive. If you track too fast and take out a formation, cork during a freefly jump or open your canopy too close to someone else when it results in a collision, death or serious injury can occur. You also are putting many others lives in danger if you don't keep your closing loop in good condition. I am well aware of that dangers of skydiving, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a motorcycle trying to shoot a gap beside a moving vehicle a few feet from where someone is standing is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a skydive. How many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? I can point you to countless fatalities and injuries where a skydiver seriously injured or killed another skydiver. When you compare the number of people riding bikes compared to the number of people skydiving, you point is ridiculous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #15 May 9, 2005 QuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? It has happened, although its very rare. Skydiving vs. Skydiving is an asinine argument or comparison, which ever side of the fence you're on. How many people here that are bitching about folks on bikes are motorcycle whuffos? You're still a whuffo if you've ridden one once, just like the person who has done 1 tandem is still a whuffo. I don't condone or participate in asshat riding techniques, but until you are a rider, stfu, you don't know whats going on. Just like the bullshit static the media and general public gives to skydiving.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #16 May 9, 2005 QuoteI am well aware of that dangers of motorcycling, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a skydiver trying to swoop at too high a speed to a formation, aiming beside a formation a few feet from where someone is docked is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a cycle ride. Let's rephrase, shall we?Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #17 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? It has happened, although its very rare. Skydiving vs. Skydiving is an asinine argument or comparison, which ever side of the fence you're on. How many people here that are bitching about folks on bikes are motorcycle whuffos? You're still a whuffo if you've ridden one once, just like the person who has done 1 tandem is still a whuffo. I don't condone or participate in asshat riding techniques, but until you are a rider, stfu, you don't know whats going on. Just like the bullshit static the media and general public gives to skydiving. Hopefully you aren't addressing me as a motorcycle wuffo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #18 May 9, 2005 QuoteHopefully you aren't addressing me as a motorcycle wuffo. You just happened to be who I replied to. This is a continuation of a lot of people in this thread and previous threads.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #19 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHopefully you aren't addressing me as a motorcycle wuffo. You just happened to be who I replied to. This is a continuation of a lot of people in this thread and previous threads. Yep, if you are afraid of motorcycles, don't buy one. But don't act like you know anything about riding. I'd much rather get hit by a motorcycle going 20 mph than a skydiver closing on me at 180+ mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #20 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteI am well aware of that dangers of motorcycling, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a skydiver trying to swoop at too high a speed to a formation, aiming beside a formation a few feet from where someone is docked is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a cycle ride. Let's rephrase, shall we? There is a difference though. As skydivers, we assume a degree of risk from the get go and sign comprehensive waivers to formalize the process. A motorcyclist acting like an ass will endanger other people on the highway who I doubt would consider driving to be a similarly high risk activity. Wayne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #21 May 9, 2005 Quote Yep, if you are afraid of motorcycles, don't buy one. No rider I know is afraid of motorcycles. Most (myself included) that I've talked to are afraid of the stereotypical soccer mom driving a big-ass SUV at 80+ talking on a cell phone while crossing multiple lanes on the highway and not looking out for anyone else. I've pretty much stopped riding because most of the roads in the area are pretty busy, and my chances of getting plowed down by someone who "just didn't see me" are pretty high. It's not because I'm afraid of motorcycles, it's because I'm afraid of irresponsible drivers who value their cell phone conversations more than other people lives. Quote But don't act like you know anything about riding. Actually, IIRC, Dave knows a hell of alot about riding.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ahegeman 0 #22 May 9, 2005 QuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? I can point you to countless fatalities and injuries where a skydiver seriously injured or killed another skydiver. When you compare the number of people riding bikes compared to the number of people skydiving, you point is ridiculous. My point was that your can't compare a skydive to what that motorcycle rider did. If you think that someone on a motorcycle thinking "I'm going to shoot that gap next to the moving truck right next to where that guy is standing" is on par with someone thinking "I'm going to go make a skydive", then so be it. I'm not trying to make any point about riding in general.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #23 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? I can point you to countless fatalities and injuries where a skydiver seriously injured or killed another skydiver. When you compare the number of people riding bikes compared to the number of people skydiving, you point is ridiculous. QuoteMy point was that your can't compare a skydive to what that motorcycle rider did. But you did exactly that when you said: QuoteThat's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. QuoteIf you think that someone on a motorcycle thinking "I'm going to shoot that gap next to the moving truck right next to where that guy is standing" is on par with someone thinking "I'm going to go make a skydive", then so be it. I'm not trying to make any point about riding in general. Depends on what you do on the skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Duckwater 0 #24 May 9, 2005 Im not making this up, but my grandmother was killed by a drunk motorcyclist in Paradise, CA. He hit their truck broadside, it spun and flipped. The motorcyclist was slightly injured. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #25 May 9, 2005 I think we can all agree that stupidity can get you and others killed in just about any activity, but that's no reason to come down on everyone who participates, recklessly and responsibly. Yes? Good? Wonderful.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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BillyVance 34 #4 May 6, 2005 Now that was one dumb ass, thinking he could make the gap, on a motorcycle no less... I agree his family was full of shit for trying to sue for his death. I hope they lost the court case... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #5 May 7, 2005 So when are you guys gonna start posting pics of skydiving fatality scenes? Just wondering. take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #6 May 7, 2005 QuoteSo when are you guys gonna start posting pics of skydiving fatality scenes? Just wondering. take care, space You have to visit the Motorcycle rider web sites to see those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #7 May 7, 2005 Perhaps as soon as such posters finds out that mod's do not intervene? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #8 May 9, 2005 QuoteNow that was one dumb ass, thinking he could make the gap, on a motorcycle no less... Please... Here you go again. He took a chance shooting the gap with a bike, yet you take a chance aswell on every skydive. If he is a dumb ass, then so am I aswell as yourself. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #9 May 9, 2005 Quote Please... Here you go again. He took a chance shooting the gap with a bike, yet you take a chance aswell on every skydive. If he is a dumb ass, then so am I aswell as yourself. That's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #10 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuote Please... Here you go again. He took a chance shooting the gap with a bike, yet you take a chance aswell on every skydive. If he is a dumb ass, then so am I aswell as yourself. That's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. It is rare someone driving a car or truck is injured when it collides with a motorcycle. So the motorcyclist for the most part is only putting their own life in danger. You most certainly are putting others lives in danger when you skydive. If you track too fast and take out a formation, cork during a freefly jump or open your canopy too close to someone else when it results in a collision, death or serious injury can occur. You also are putting many others lives in danger if you don't keep your closing loop in good condition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #11 May 9, 2005 Quote That's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. The odds might be less in skydiving but, there is still a chance. There is no difference in my eye. I agree to disagree with you. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #12 May 9, 2005 Quote When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. Please back this statement up with some facts. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #13 May 9, 2005 QuoteYou most certainly are putting others lives in danger when you skydive. If you track too fast and take out a formation, cork during a freefly jump or open your canopy too close to someone else when it results in a collision, death or serious injury can occur. You also are putting many others lives in danger if you don't keep your closing loop in good condition. I am well aware of that dangers of skydiving, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a motorcycle trying to shoot a gap beside a moving vehicle a few feet from where someone is standing is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a skydive.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #14 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou most certainly are putting others lives in danger when you skydive. If you track too fast and take out a formation, cork during a freefly jump or open your canopy too close to someone else when it results in a collision, death or serious injury can occur. You also are putting many others lives in danger if you don't keep your closing loop in good condition. I am well aware of that dangers of skydiving, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a motorcycle trying to shoot a gap beside a moving vehicle a few feet from where someone is standing is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a skydive. How many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? I can point you to countless fatalities and injuries where a skydiver seriously injured or killed another skydiver. When you compare the number of people riding bikes compared to the number of people skydiving, you point is ridiculous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #15 May 9, 2005 QuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? It has happened, although its very rare. Skydiving vs. Skydiving is an asinine argument or comparison, which ever side of the fence you're on. How many people here that are bitching about folks on bikes are motorcycle whuffos? You're still a whuffo if you've ridden one once, just like the person who has done 1 tandem is still a whuffo. I don't condone or participate in asshat riding techniques, but until you are a rider, stfu, you don't know whats going on. Just like the bullshit static the media and general public gives to skydiving.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #16 May 9, 2005 QuoteI am well aware of that dangers of motorcycling, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a skydiver trying to swoop at too high a speed to a formation, aiming beside a formation a few feet from where someone is docked is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a cycle ride. Let's rephrase, shall we?Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #17 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? It has happened, although its very rare. Skydiving vs. Skydiving is an asinine argument or comparison, which ever side of the fence you're on. How many people here that are bitching about folks on bikes are motorcycle whuffos? You're still a whuffo if you've ridden one once, just like the person who has done 1 tandem is still a whuffo. I don't condone or participate in asshat riding techniques, but until you are a rider, stfu, you don't know whats going on. Just like the bullshit static the media and general public gives to skydiving. Hopefully you aren't addressing me as a motorcycle wuffo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 May 9, 2005 QuoteHopefully you aren't addressing me as a motorcycle wuffo. You just happened to be who I replied to. This is a continuation of a lot of people in this thread and previous threads.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #19 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHopefully you aren't addressing me as a motorcycle wuffo. You just happened to be who I replied to. This is a continuation of a lot of people in this thread and previous threads. Yep, if you are afraid of motorcycles, don't buy one. But don't act like you know anything about riding. I'd much rather get hit by a motorcycle going 20 mph than a skydiver closing on me at 180+ mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #20 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteI am well aware of that dangers of motorcycling, which is why I said "to the same extent". It seems pretty obvious that a skydiver trying to swoop at too high a speed to a formation, aiming beside a formation a few feet from where someone is docked is creating a more dangerous situation than going on a cycle ride. Let's rephrase, shall we? There is a difference though. As skydivers, we assume a degree of risk from the get go and sign comprehensive waivers to formalize the process. A motorcyclist acting like an ass will endanger other people on the highway who I doubt would consider driving to be a similarly high risk activity. Wayne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #21 May 9, 2005 Quote Yep, if you are afraid of motorcycles, don't buy one. No rider I know is afraid of motorcycles. Most (myself included) that I've talked to are afraid of the stereotypical soccer mom driving a big-ass SUV at 80+ talking on a cell phone while crossing multiple lanes on the highway and not looking out for anyone else. I've pretty much stopped riding because most of the roads in the area are pretty busy, and my chances of getting plowed down by someone who "just didn't see me" are pretty high. It's not because I'm afraid of motorcycles, it's because I'm afraid of irresponsible drivers who value their cell phone conversations more than other people lives. Quote But don't act like you know anything about riding. Actually, IIRC, Dave knows a hell of alot about riding.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #22 May 9, 2005 QuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? I can point you to countless fatalities and injuries where a skydiver seriously injured or killed another skydiver. When you compare the number of people riding bikes compared to the number of people skydiving, you point is ridiculous. My point was that your can't compare a skydive to what that motorcycle rider did. If you think that someone on a motorcycle thinking "I'm going to shoot that gap next to the moving truck right next to where that guy is standing" is on par with someone thinking "I'm going to go make a skydive", then so be it. I'm not trying to make any point about riding in general.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #23 May 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow many incidents have you heard when a motorcyclist takes out someone standing on a curb? I can point you to countless fatalities and injuries where a skydiver seriously injured or killed another skydiver. When you compare the number of people riding bikes compared to the number of people skydiving, you point is ridiculous. QuoteMy point was that your can't compare a skydive to what that motorcycle rider did. But you did exactly that when you said: QuoteThat's a specious argument. Stupidity in traffic puts a lot of people's lives and property at risk. When I go skydiving I'm not putting other people's lives at risk to nearly the same extent as someone trying to shoot a gap only a few feet away from someone standing on the side of the road. QuoteIf you think that someone on a motorcycle thinking "I'm going to shoot that gap next to the moving truck right next to where that guy is standing" is on par with someone thinking "I'm going to go make a skydive", then so be it. I'm not trying to make any point about riding in general. Depends on what you do on the skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Duckwater 0 #24 May 9, 2005 Im not making this up, but my grandmother was killed by a drunk motorcyclist in Paradise, CA. He hit their truck broadside, it spun and flipped. The motorcyclist was slightly injured. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #25 May 9, 2005 I think we can all agree that stupidity can get you and others killed in just about any activity, but that's no reason to come down on everyone who participates, recklessly and responsibly. Yes? Good? Wonderful.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Duckwater 0 #24 May 9, 2005 Im not making this up, but my grandmother was killed by a drunk motorcyclist in Paradise, CA. He hit their truck broadside, it spun and flipped. The motorcyclist was slightly injured. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 May 9, 2005 I think we can all agree that stupidity can get you and others killed in just about any activity, but that's no reason to come down on everyone who participates, recklessly and responsibly. Yes? Good? Wonderful.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
