tmontana 0 #1 May 9, 2005 http://info.netscape.com/fwd/mynewshead/http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2005050918480001646926___________________________________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #2 May 9, 2005 But isn't it contagious? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #3 May 10, 2005 QuoteBut isn't it contagious? Looking at your avatar - yes... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #4 May 10, 2005 That's absolutely ridiculous! I clearly remember at age 7 hanging out with my little playmates, playing marbles and baseball, while thinking, "Given all of the alternatives, and after deep consideration, I have concluded that a lifetime spent screwing men, while immoral and vilely unappealing, will give me the greatest chance at promoting perversion, mocking God's law, and recruiting others into a twisted 'death cult'*." It's clearly a choice. After all, can't everyone switch their sexual orientation at will simply by making a choice? * Thanks to radio celebrity Michael Savage for this excellent euphemism. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #5 May 10, 2005 Quote"Given all of the alternatives, and after deep consideration, I have concluded that a lifetime spent screwing men, while immoral and vilely unappealing, will give me the greatest chance at promoting perversion, mocking God's law, and recruiting others into a twisted 'death cult'*." ... * Thanks to radio celebrity Michael Savage for this excellent euphemism. Mike Savage? I believe my esteemed colleague Ted Kennedy said that first when he announced to his family that he had decided to become yet another Kennedy in government. Quite fitting, if you choose to ponder it. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 May 10, 2005 File that under D (uhhh!) interesting study though. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #7 May 10, 2005 I think this comes back to the Nature or Nurture argument. At what point to they loose the ability to choose their sexuality? Are they born gay, is it something from childhood? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #8 May 10, 2005 no-one knows. It could even be affected by something you are exposed to in the womb. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #9 May 10, 2005 mQuoteAt what point to they loose the ability to choose their sexuality? does anyone ever have the ability to "choose" their sexuality? I don't remember ever deciding to be straight. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #10 May 10, 2005 QuoteI think this comes back to the Nature or Nurture argument. I don't think so. The study's results are consistent with either nature, nurture, or a combination of the two being the determining factor. All it shows is that something outside of a person's will determines their sexual orientation. Emotional and even physical reactions to stimuli (including sexual attraction) can be conditioned by events, especially if they occur in early childhood. Wayne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #11 May 10, 2005 Then why is it called a "lifestyle"? mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #12 May 10, 2005 QuoteThen why is it called a "lifestyle"? mh . The lifestyle is a choice. Don't confuse being gay with adopting the lifestyle. You don't have to be gay to engage in the lifestyle and a lot of people who are gay don't subscribe to it. Wyane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jkm2500 0 #13 May 10, 2005 QuoteI think this comes back to the Nature or Nurture argument. At what point to they loose the ability to choose their sexuality? Are they born gay, is it something from childhood? There are some and I mean some people out there that choose to be gay. But most are born that way. The choice to be gay is not the child's, it is made before the fetus is even capable of living outside the womb. The preoptic area of the hypothalmus is what determines the sexual attraction of the child. This is determined during the formation of the brain. An enlarged preoptic area (regardless of male or female) will mean that the child will be attracted to females. An less pronounced preoptic area will present itself by desiring male companionship. The cause is chemical or genetic. Chemically if there is an elevated level of testosterone or cortisol then the offspring will tend to have smaller preoptic areas, thus preferring male offspring. (An explanation of this could be that if the mother is under stress-testosterone/cortisol, there is a chance that the offspring could be placed under duress. By producing homosexual offspring, it would then limit the population growth.) There are lots of cases of genetic abnormalities, but that tends to affect women more than men. The last situation is in pharmacology. Where women who were exposed to certain chemicals(drugs) while pregnant had homosexual offspring. Examples of this; women exposed to diethylstilbestrol (DES) (used to prevent miscarriages) produced more declared homosexual female offspring. (whatever that is worth) To sum it up, most gay people are made that way.The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #14 May 10, 2005 I personally know two people who chose to be lesbians because they said they were molested at an early age by relatives. They said it was a choice. I know one person who is male and has gone through a great deal of counselling, also due to molestation. He has problems with gender identity. He is confused about his choice. I also know a woman who was never confused. She has been a lesbian for as long as anyone has ever known her. Why do people always want "one answer" for everything in life? I have seen "choice", "trauma", and "nature". For whatever reason, there it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #15 May 10, 2005 QuoteI personally know two people who chose to be lesbians because they said they were molested at an early age by relatives. They said it was a choice. I know one person who is male and has gone through a great deal of counselling, also due to molestation. He has problems with gender identity. He is confused about his choice. I also know a woman who was never confused. She has been a lesbian for as long as anyone has ever known her. Why do people always want "one answer" for everything in life? I have seen "choice", "trauma", and "nature". For whatever reason, there it is. He has problems with gender identity. Gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality, other than the equpiment might get in the way. He is confused about his choice. Wait, I thought the consensus was that it isn't a choice. The right-wing wants to make it a choice to increase the stigma associated with it. My GF's brother, who committed suicide 6 months b4 I met her due to AIDS related issues, grew up in conservative nutjob Prescott, Arizona in the 60's. Prescott was sooooo conservative thena nd even now that there is no way there was any open homosexual coaching and no other homosexuals were known. He was inclined to be gay from an early age and tried to date girls without success. He wasn't a flamboyant gay, which is the "choice" aspect of being gay. He was one of the many gays that you would never know about in public, even if you worked next to him. SO my question is, how did he become gay in the 60's and early 70's when the media didn't refer to the concept of being gay? Who was his coach? Where did he get this idea if not genetic? That's one case study, but I think the onus of proving "choice" rests primarily on the other side of the argument given all the ridicule a person goes through even today, let alone 30, 40 or more years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #16 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteThen why is it called a "lifestyle"? mh . The lifestyle is a choice. Don't confuse being gay with adopting the lifestyle. You don't have to be gay to engage in the lifestyle and a lot of people who are gay don't subscribe to it. Wyane That is, however, the face that is presented to the public at large. Want to change things like public perceptions and attitudes? Make the "lifestyle" the exception rather than the rule (as perceived by the public). However, and effort to "enlighten" or "educate" comes with it the implied threat of "indoctrination". Thus in my opionion, no one wins. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #17 May 10, 2005 QuoteThat is, however, the face that is presented to the public at large Actually, that's what the media reports. There are a lot of gay folks who don't act like that. But they do want tolerance for those who do. Just as white folks in Texas want tolerance of their propensity for white bread, Budweiser beer, country music, and pick-up trucks. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #18 May 10, 2005 I don't know, I belive that orientation does have a biological basis but you are right, one has a choice if they wish to pursue this into a physical manifestation. Simon LeVey did studies and found that the pre optic nucleus of the hypothalimus was smaller in gay men than hetrosexual men and corresponded with the size of a female rather than a males. His study was obviously poopooed by the Church (LeVey is also gay) as they claimed bias (Although it was a double blind study) and that some of the men had died of AIDs which they claimed may have affeted the results. The same experiment was conducted using sheep (Yes, gay sheep do exist) and found the same results. So I belive its nature and nurture.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #19 May 10, 2005 Quotehttp://info.netscape.com/fwd/mynewshead/http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2005050918480001646926 Who cares? (Other than the uber-religious and gay activists...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #20 May 10, 2005 well, also they only looked at a very small number of brains. I believe it may very well be biologically based, but let's face it: We're dealing with just hypotheses at this point. None of us really knows for sure how it works, and there is way more research to be done. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #21 May 10, 2005 Quote Who cares? (Other than the uber-religious and gay activists...) I care, and I'm not a religious person or a gay activist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #22 May 10, 2005 QuoteI care, and I'm not a religious person or a gay activist. You're not? Fooled me. I care because I want to know whether gayness is contagious or not. I've been exposed recently. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #23 May 10, 2005 Quote I care because I want to know whether gayness is contagious or not. I've been exposed recently. Oh my god, Frenchy, please, tell me you didn´t fall for the "coin in the floor" trick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #24 May 10, 2005 > I've been exposed recently. Just because you saw all those women kissing does _not_ mean you've been exposed. Now, Gia's husband, on the other hand . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #25 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteI care, and I'm not a religious person or a gay activist. You're not? Fooled me. Ok, well sometimes I become both religious and gay after a few Jack & Cokes, but it's only a temporary thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
