Clerics threaten holy war over alleged Quran desecrations

[rhino 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/afghan.protests.reut/index.html

FAIZABAD, Afghanistan (Reuters) -- A group of Afghan Muslim clerics have threatened to call for a holy war against the United States in three days unless it hands over military interrogators reported to have desecrated the Quran.


These guys are a little pissed off.. All over an ALLEGED incident..

Looks like a holy war is coming.. OOPS.. my bad.. one is already happening???

K.. pull our boys the fuck out of Afghanistan.. Turn the whole fucking place into a glass parking lot.. Set an example..

The above BOLD statement was sarcasm. It is about as stupid and childish as these so called leaders of the Muslim religion calling for a holy war over one or two assholes that MIGHT HAVE done something with the Koran.

Unfuckingbelievable.....

It is high time for the Muslim world to police it's own.

Rhino

[SpeedRacer 1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/ Here's an article about how the story started.

I guess there's no way to know what really happened.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[rhino 0]

No way indeed...

[rhino 0]

I do understand why they feel the way they do.

I do not however agree with the over reaction, immaturity, or barbarism as a reaction.

I do not judge all Muslims off of the actions of a few. Why do they judge us all? What good will it do them?

Doesn't make sense to me... The immature response doesn't make sense. Does the Koran teach hatred and judgement? What gives?

Does it teach forgiveness?

I am starting to think that maybe these ancient societies crave drama?

Rhino

[rushmc 23]

Surprise surprise.

NBC is reporting tonight that newsweek is saying they do not now know if the story reported is really true

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rhino 0]

Then Newsweek needs to hand over the reporter that lied about it to the Clerics

[SpeedRacer 1]

I guess I should apologize for my other thread, in which I automatically assumed the report was true.

I am glad it isn't true of course. I wonder if the retraction will be read on the Pakistani news as the original report was.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[jkm2500 0]

It never ceases to amaze me.... If the roles had been reversed, do you think that muslims detaining a christian would be so gracious as to give him a bible? I doubt it, but I dont think that a christian (or person of any other faith) would have time to read it in between rounds of torture. Maybe, I think too much, or not enough.

If the cleric's logic stands, then I think that we should wage a holy war against them for desecrating the American flag.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

If the cleric's logic stands, then I think that we should wage a holy war against them for desecrating the American flag.

All those flags burned and no desecration afterall. Don't get mad, get even, go buy a Quran and flush it down the nearest latrine.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

Looks like a holy war is coming.. OOPS.. my bad.. one is already happening???

Yeah looks like Bush really fucked up when he described his jaunt in the Middle East as a "crusade". Wanna guess what that translates as?

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

Looks like a holy war is coming.. OOPS.. my bad.. one is already happening???

Yeah looks like Bush really fucked up when he described his jaunt in the Middle East as a "crusade". Wanna guess what that translates as?

Yea, this is the first time a crowd of Muslims have rioted and gone on a murdering rampage. And they've never burned American flags before. It mutst be Bush's fault. Newsweek are blameless in this and the festering disaster of the Middle East is just a neocon lie, just put on your left wing hat and blame Bush.

[mnealtx 0]

I thought that was the fashionable thing to do these days?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mr2mk1g 10]

You've missed my point entirely.

[rhino 0]

Quote

I am glad it isn't true of course. I wonder if the retraction will be read on the Pakistani news as the original report was.

They heard about Clinton. They will surely want an intern of their own to use as a sex slave and have sexual favors done on them.. lol

Then they will still want an apology..

[dorbie 0]

Quote

You've missed my point entirely.

Perhaps your point was too obtuse, you're always free to elucidate.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crusade

Definition 3 is the appropriate and obvious reference for Bush's comment when he was speaking plain English. Of course when you're concerned about rousing a rabble of Quran thumping, flag burning zealots then you have to worry about contrived interpretations using definitions 1 & 2. No serious observer would actually claim that was Bush's intent. His comment was inept but using any interpretation other than 3 after having time for serious reflection is certainly worse that Bush's linguistic transgression.

[mr2mk1g 10]

To clarify: I quoted: "Looks like a holy war is coming.. OOPS.. my bad.. one is already happening???"

And pointed out that when we went into the Gulf, Bush made a statement that it was a "crusade". That by any measure was a really big mistake as the first two definitions (by your own admission) of the word is that it is a holy war.

Whether he meant that he was starting a holy war or not is immaterial, we all know that's rather unlikely. That does not change the fact that telling a bunch of Muslims that he was starting a crusade was a really bad idea... crusade translates directly into the concept of jihad.

Rhino laments the fact that there’s already a holy war going in... I merely point out that yes there is – Bush told the whole Muslim world that he was starting one on them. Unfortunate and understandable as that mistake was – that is what he told them.

I feel sorry for you if you find that point obtuse. Maybe you were confused by the fact that it is something of an aside to the thread’s main topic.

Now please explain to me where in the world you got the concept that I in some way intimated that newsweek are blameless in the current situation regarding the reports about the flushing of a Koran, or that the fact that Muslims rioted over the reports was Bush’s fault, or any of the other off the wall accusations you level at me in your first reply. Again, perhaps you were confused by the fact that my point was an aside.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Of course, the Afghans & Pakistanis are not buying the retraction. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/religion_afghan_pakistan_dc The damage has already been done.

These reporters really should check this stuff more thoroughly before they put it out there. It's not enough to say "Well, the Pentagon officials never said it DIDN'T happen!" (All they could say of course was that they have no record the incident ever took place.)

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[pajarito 0]

It really just gives them another excuse to start more sh#t in Jalalabad. Not that they really need much of a good one anyway. That's one of the most out of control places over there on the Paki border. Theres usually something stirred up there. It doesn't matter if it's true or not to them. They hate America and that's all that matters. No real news there.

[DrewGPM 0]

The idea that Bush was the one to declare this a "holy war" is not accurate.

The group "Islamic Jihad" was responsible for the US Embassy and Marine Barracks that were bombed in Beirut...back in 1983. Jihad means holy war. So the holy war thing has been around for a long time.

Al Qaeda declared a jihad against the United States. in 1996. The document was titled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places". It talks about a new organization called "World Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders". They didn't just use the word in a sentence, they included it in the name of an organization! In February 1998, that group declared that it intended to "attack Americans and our allies, including civilians, anywhere in the world."

That is long before Bush used the word crusade in an unscripted speech. Bush said,"This crusade, this war on terrorism..." in the days following September 11, 2001. That is far cry from declaring a holy war.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Well, I don't think anyone here believes that Bush was actually declaring a holy war against Islam. Its just that his speech was delivered in front of ambassadors of Muslim nations, & he asked them to join him in this "Crusade" against terrorism.

If we'd had a smarter president, he might have had the understanding that the word "Crusade" had very negative connotations among Muslims & Arabs. It was EXACTLY the wrong word to use.

I'm not accusing Bush of wanting to start a holy war, I'm accusing him of being a bumbling ignorant dolt.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[WrongWay 0]

Why don't we just send over a few bibles and let them have their way with them? That would at least spare human life.

Killing for the sake of religion is just fighting over who has the better imaginary friend.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Darius11 12]

It is high time for the Muslim world to police it's own.

Quote

I don't remember any one asking to be policed by us did they? So maybe we should get the fuck out and mind our own business.
We decided to do as we please as always.

It is about as stupid and childish as these so called leaders of the Muslim religion calling for a holy war over one or two assholes that MIGHT HAVE done something with the Koran.

Quote

Agreed it is just stupid to judge a whole nation or religion because of the actions of a few.
I have made this point many times.

I do not judge all Muslims off of the actions of a few.

Quote

You don't?????????

Why do they judge us all? What good will it do them? ***

It won't do any one any good. Unfortunately that’s what happens when ignorance meets ignorance.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[dorbie 0]

Quote

And pointed out that when we went into the Gulf, Bush made a statement that it was a "crusade". That by any measure was a really big mistake as the first two definitions (by your own admission) of the word is that it is a holy war.

What I in fact explained was why your intentional misinterpretation of his remarks is so contemtible. Even in light of such an explanation you still deceive yourself about their nature.

There is a perfectly clear and legitimate use of the word crusade, it's a bit like the word Jihad in that respect. That you refuse to aknowledge this and focus on the misinterpretation of a single word in a spontaneous remark, since withdrawn, merely demonstrates the contrast between the low standards to which you hold your own remarks compared to the standards with which you judge the remarks of others.

There's no need for pity. Despite your initial cryptic post it seems I understood you perfectly and your claim I missed your point was just bluster.

[crozby 0]

oh blimey, please lets not turn this thread into a hair-splitting he said/she said/yeah but you smell thing. He was only making a light-hearted remark concerning holy wars and Bush's talk of a crusade. Maybe it loses something in transatlantic translation ... although you're Scottish aren't you?

Anyway, it's irrelevant how some American dictionary defines crusade, its how it is translated in Arabic that matters. Anyone help with that?

[dorbie 0]

It depends on who's doing the translating. An accurate translation would reflect the correct use of the word. It's absolutely relevant how an American dictionary defines the word because everyone who speaks English on both sides of the Atlantic understood that this was his intended use of the word.