Is the Use of Ethnic Names for Mascots and Marketing Acceptable?

[lawrocket 3]

The NCAA is considering banning the use of American Indian imagery and names for mascots and teams. I.e., "Redskins" and "Seminoles," etc.

A similar discussion is occurring in California, where they are trying to ban schools from using similar names.

I started thinking about other products that use names that could be considered non-PC. Vehicles like the "Navajo" and others seem to be utilizing the names to market the products.

I think these problems exist elsewhere. At my elementary school we were the "Vikings." Isn't that offensive to the Nordics? My high school was the Centurions. Is that not offensive to Italians? In college we were the Gauchos. Offensive to South Americans, ain't it?

Should ethnicities besides Native American be banned? What about the Minnesota Vikings? Or the Dallas Cowboys? What about Cincinatti Reds being associated with communists? (This is no joke - they changed their name for a couple of years in the 50's for just that purpose).

Still, I think they have SOMEWHAT of a point. While the Jeep Cherokee is intended to give the thought of ruggedness, people would definitely have a problem with a vehicle marketed as, "The economical Pontiac Jew." Or, "Our patented Blonde (tm) Suspension - its light, airy and makes for a mighty good ride." Or maybe, "The fashionable Chevrolet Gay."

However, I DO believe that there needs to be a whole lotta lightening up.

What circumstances makes the use of these terms okay?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[beowulf 1]

There are just way too many whiney ass bitches in this world. Politically correctness changes every day depending on which minority is bitching the most. I personally think the people that are bitching are just wanting a free ride.

[Ron 10]

First I have to say....this shit was FUNNY

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"The economical Pontiac Jew." Or, "Our patented Blonde (tm) Suspension - its light, airy and makes for a mighty good ride."

I think the market should decide for products. If you piss off people, people are not going to buy your product.

As for sports teams.....Good grief.

People should lighten up. "Seminoles" were well respected, strong and fierce in battle...I can think of very few better mascots.

But if you are going to do that, what about the "Fighting Irish", "Patriots", "Cowboys".....ect.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AndyMan 7]

I don't hear many credible calls for the names to be banned.

What I do hear, is a lot of very public campaigns trying to convince people that the names and mascots are in bad taste, and that using those are poor business decisions.

I happen to agree with both points. Often the ethnic names and mascots are in very poor taste. This often means choosing them are poor business decisions.

What drove the point home for me most, was actually hearing reps from University of Illinois defending their mascot, cheif Illiniwek. They claimed the mascot actually honored Native American traditions. Yeah, Right. A white guy named John Madigan dressed as a walking stereotype dancing around a basketball arena. "honor Native American Traditions" my ass.

To me, when the only defence is clearly tortured, the act itself must be indefensible.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[markd_nscr986 0]

My high school......."The Redskins"

Not very pc I guess

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[Alias 0]

Hail to the Washington Redskins!

Carpe Diem

[dorbie 0]

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To me, when the only defence is clearly tortured, the act itself must be indefensible.

Eye of teh beholder.

What about the Atlanta Braves?

I really dunno, it would seem pretty bizarre to me if it were offensive.

A team name is chosen to differentiate and imbue a team's image with the honorable characteristics of the chosen icon.

You don't call a team the Atlanta Turds, because inherent in the choice of a name implies unspoken respect and aspiration to the image. It's not an insult, and grasps at whatever regional cultural identity is available.

[kelpdiver 2]

so what's worse?

To have Florida State fight under your banner as the Seminoles, with the incessant chant, or to be non existent in American culture? If you can't handle a little caricacture of what you are, you need to lighten up.

Schools/teams pick these mascots as a positive statement. Notre Dame is the Fighting Irish, not the Drunk Irish.

Hell, I even liked the Washington Bullets. Seemed much better than the Wizards - something not quite fierce about a bunch of 7' black Harry Potters.

[Travman 6]

I think it can be overly sensitive, but I guess some words should not be used to market products, but again it depends on the product and the angle of advertising used.
In Australia the term ANZAC (referring to the Australian and New Zealand Soldiers of World War 1) has great limitations on its use under changes made in 1921 to the War Precautions Act Repeal Act 1920.

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The Regulations prohibit, without the authority of the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, the use of the word 'Anzac' or any similar word in connection with a trade, business, calling or profession or in connection with any entertainment or any lottery or art union or as the name or part of the name of any private residence, boat, vehicle or charitable or other institution, or any building in connection therewith. However, the Regulations do not preclude use of the words 'Anzac Day' in connection with an entertainment (as defined under the Regulations) held on 25 April or consecutive days that include 25 April under certain conditions.

Regulation 3 also prohibits, without the authority of the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, the use of the word 'Anzac' or any similar word on streets, roads or parks, unless the street, road or park has in its immediate vicinity a memorial relating to a world war, or was so named prior to the commencement of the Regulation.

[ianmdrennan 2]

maybe if people stopped worrying about a 'label' we'd get something more useful done.

Call me what you want, my reaction to a word gives it power. Not the word itself.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[jakee 1,489]

But have you considered the alternative, if the use of ethnic names was banned, we'd only be able to use White Anglo Saxon Protestant names for marketing. Wouldn't that cause the greatest outcry?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PhreeZone 20]

I say let the free market reign on the naming rights of teams as well as stadiums.

I can see it now...

San Diego Dell Peserios
Florida Disney Mickey and Friends
New York Antionio's BailBonds and Pawn Shop
Texas Shell Oil Drillers
Denver Coors Silver Bullets

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Jib 0]

Next thing you know teams named the Trojans will be accused of promoting sex in high school.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[rehmwa 2]

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I say let the free market reign on the naming rights of teams as well as stadiums.

I can see it now...

San Diego Dell Peserios
Florida Disney Mickey and Friends
New York Antionio's BailBonds and Pawn Shop
Texas Shell Oil Drillers
Denver Coors Silver Bullets

Already true in bowl game sponsorships

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[txblondie 0]

Perhaps I should run through the list of mascots in my home town - the Armstrong Apaches, the Williams Warriors, the Vines Vikings...
The list goes on and on and on...you get the picture. I think that if gross terms are used (we all know racial slurs, I won't list any here), that's a problem, but honestly, these names are chosen in admiration most of the time. Why the Armstrong Apaches? Because the Apaches were fierce warriors, and when the football team gets out on the field, they want people to think they'll play fiercely. It's more of an homage than anything.
But it's funny how anything can be spun to be racial discrimination these days.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Consider this:

THEN

"In the summer of 1832, before the organization of the county and the fixing of its county seat, when the site of Urbana was, perhaps, only what it had been for generations before - an Indian camping ground - a large number of Indians came and camped around a spring in the vicinity of what is now Second Street and Springfield Avenue in Champaign, Illinois. It happened to be at the time of the excitement caused by the Black Hawk War, and caused not a little apprehension among the few inhabitants around the Big Grove, although the presence in the company of many women and children of the Indians should have been an assurance of no hostile errand. A meeting of the white settlers was had and the removal of the strange visitors determined upon as a measure of safety. A committee consisting of Stephen Boyd, Jacob Smith, Gabe Rice and Elias Stamey, was appointed by the white settlers, charged with the duty of having a "talk" with the red men. The committee went to the camp, and mustering their little knowledge of their language, announced to the Indians that they must "puck-a-chee," which they understood to be a command to them to leave the country. The order was at once obeyed. The Indians gathered up their possessions and left, greatly to the relief of the settlers."



NOW


"Illiniwek (pronounced “ill-EYE-nih-wek”) was the name of the loose confederation of Algonquin tribes that once lived in the region. The French changed the ending to “ois” in naming what became the state of Illinois. Illiniwek means “they are men” and former Illinois football coach Robert Zuppke is believed to have suggested calling the UI symbol Chief Illiniwek."

[kallend 2,026]

I don't see PC as the issue. The names are silly anyway. Who cares enough to want to keep them?

Our local school calls its teams "Vikings". WTF - there is minimal norse presence in our area. They don't go around raping and pillaging. What did a Viking pom-pon girl do anyway? The name is just stupid.

"Chief Illiniwek" is a particularly stupid caricature. I can't believe the morons on either side that get all worked up about it. It should just be allowed to go away on account of its implicit imbecility.

I don't think NCAA should enact a ban. It should just put a large "STUPID" label against teams with such names.

Manchester United, the most valuable sports franchise in the world, doesn't need a silly name associated with the team.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Still nuts.

I heard on the radio yesterday that PETA now wants teams to not use the names of animals. Who cares why? It's getting worse, not better.

The world must be close to ending.

Anyway, the pro football season is starting, I have to find out how the Minnesota Mondales will do against the Chicago Wind and Kansas City Churchills. Not to mention the Oakland Tofu.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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Manchester United, the most valuable sports franchise in the world, doesn't need a silly name associated with the team.

Who needs a mascot when you got thousands of drunken holligans?

And actually, they do have a silly name - Red Devils.

[Guest]

Quote

The NCAA is considering banning the use of American Indian imagery and names for mascots and teams. I.e., "Redskins" and "Seminoles," etc.

A similar discussion is occurring in California, where they are trying to ban schools from using similar names.

I started thinking about other products that use names that could be considered non-PC. Vehicles like the "Navajo" and others seem to be utilizing the names to market the products.

I think these problems exist elsewhere. At my elementary school we were the "Vikings." Isn't that offensive to the Nordics? My high school was the Centurions. Is that not offensive to Italians? In college we were the Gauchos. Offensive to South Americans, ain't it?

Should ethnicities besides Native American be banned? What about the Minnesota Vikings? Or the Dallas Cowboys? What about Cincinatti Reds being associated with communists? (This is no joke - they changed their name for a couple of years in the 50's for just that purpose).

Still, I think they have SOMEWHAT of a point. While the Jeep Cherokee is intended to give the thought of ruggedness, people would definitely have a problem with a vehicle marketed as, "The economical Pontiac Jew." Or, "Our patented Blonde (tm) Suspension - its light, airy and makes for a mighty good ride." Or maybe, "The fashionable Chevrolet Gay."

However, I DO believe that there needs to be a whole lotta lightening up.

What circumstances makes the use of these terms okay?

I'm rooting for the Fightin' Whities...

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[starkmtn 0]

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To me, when the only defence is clearly tortured, the act itself must be indefensible.

Eye of teh beholder.

What about the Atlanta Braves?

I really dunno, it would seem pretty bizarre to me if it were offensive.

A team name is chosen to differentiate and imbue a team's image with the honorable characteristics of the chosen icon.

You don't call a team the Atlanta Turds, because inherent in the choice of a name implies unspoken respect and aspiration to the image. It's not an insult, and grasps at whatever regional cultural identity is available.

But that identity is seized by those who do not belong to that group and then used for their own purposes. The Atlanta Braves are not made up of the indiginous peoples who once occupied north Georgia (my own Cherokee and Creek ancestors among them). The name was created to conjure up a stereotypical image. Look at the icon for the Braves - it's a tomahawk.

You're right, no one chooses names that are obviously crappy (to go with your "anal"ogy :). That makes it even more insidious - it's harder for the average person, who got a typical school education regarding indigenous peoples on this continent, to realize that it's a very narrow image of a large group of people (or what used to be a large group before the genocide). I think that is what the NCAA is responding to. There are many great team names out there which can show pride in one's region without co-opting the identity of another group, particularly one that was forcibly removed from the area where their home arena now sits. How about the "peaches," or, if one wants to inspire terror in opponents, the Atlanta Pandemic? The CDC _is_ in Atlanta, after all... ;)

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[JohnRich 4]

They're gonna have to rename the state of Indiana...

[Gawain 0]

I've always thought that the use of names stemming from a specific heritage was meant to be "in honor of" that heritage (Redskins, Indians, Vikings, Trojans etc.)

Even in the use of products, usually it is quite appropriate, and I can't remember seeing anything that would insult a heritage.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[JohnRich 4]

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I've always thought that the use of names stemming from a specific heritage was meant to be "in honor of" that heritage (Redskins, Indians, Vikings, Trojans etc.) Even in the use of products, usually it is quite appropriate, and I can't remember seeing anything that would insult a heritage.

Correct. I've never seen a team named the "Dipshits" or the "Dumbasses". Naturally, they want to use a name that symbolizes things like courage, strength and athleticism.

But in the world of the political correctness police, even those are forbidden.

I would like to propose some names for review by the PC police, to see if they are acceptable. How about:

- "The Hey You's"
- "The Nobody's"
- "The NoName's"

Those should be unoffensive to everyone. That's a start. Got any more ideas?

[kallend 2,026]

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I've always thought that the use of names stemming from a specific heritage was meant to be "in honor of" that heritage (Redskins, Indians, Vikings, Trojans etc.)

Even in the use of products, usually it is quite appropriate, and I can't remember seeing anything that would insult a heritage.

Why don't we see the Minnesota Swedes, or the Chicago Polacks then? Why co-opt someone else's heritage?

If you've ever seen "Chief Illiniwek" prancing around you'd wonder what on Earth these folks are thinking of if they think it honors any heritage.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.