America, home of free press...... not

[jdhill 0]

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i'm stating that people often work FAR outside their designated job fields.

Were these people? No, they were MPs, assigned to an MP unit, assigned to guard the prisoners... The MI analyst admits to joining in because he was pissed off that some of his buddies were killed in a mortar attack, not because he was assigned to question anyone.

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in the common sense of the term ANYONE who questions a prisoner about anything is an 'interrogator'.. no matter what their actual training or title..

But there is no evidence that the AbuG crew were asking any questions, so its still not an iterrogation, just abuse.

And the other cases that have been in the news may be cases of de facto field interrogations, but do not represent systemic abuse of detainees by interrogators.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Zenister 0]

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i'm stating that people often work FAR outside their designated job fields.

Were these people? No, they were MPs, assigned to an MP unit, assigned to guard the prisoners...

actually 'they' claim they were in fact ordered to "increase pressure on the prisoners, to make them easier to interrogate"... as such they are part of the interrogation process...

were they actually ordered too? or were they simply 'having fun'? no one outside will ever know... but to refuse to admit the possibility, to deny that such things can and do go on (even in our military) or to pretend that such activities are not part of interrogation, is to put ones head in the sand and ignore reality....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jdhill 0]

Sure its a possibility, but there is no proof, just like the koran story.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[EBSB52 0]

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Ok... got the rant out of your system, now? Good; glad you're feeling better.

Now, please show HOW Newsweek was prevented from reporting a story. Something to support your title?

No, they weren't prevented from printing it, just admonished for doing so and, uh, urged to retract regardless of truth/merit.


got the rant out of your system, now? Good; glad you're feeling better.

Ahhh, you wouldn't be you w/o having to post attempted distraction/crap like this.

[EBSB52 0]

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Furthermore, Newsweek is one of the most credible sources in the American news media.

And therein lies the problem... if they are one of the most credible, we are all in trouble... Hell, I only took one semester of journalism and I can see that they screwed up...

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the media at least stirs the pot

and it got people killed... irresponsible at best, criminal at worst.

J

You call them irresponsible after printing a story that hasn't been proven nor disproven, yet you support the maggot in chief for entering a war against the head of a country for WMD's that admittedly aren't there, for 9/11 actions that weren't ever the doing of the same.

Funny, the same people screaming for Const rights are the ones the busiest burying them.

[EBSB52 0]

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BZZZZZZZZT! WRONG!

Newsweek was not prevented from running their story. You have no proof they were coerced by any government entity into retracting the story.

This is yet another anti-American rant from you. Try again - this time with some facts to support your hypothesis.

Newsweek was highly pressured from teh White House to retract. As for "You have no proof ..." With Ollie North's can't recall crap, please don't use this absolute standard.

BTW, the White Hiuse did pressure them to retract - common knowledge.

This is yet another anti-American rant from you.

And this is yet another anti-Const rant from you.

[EBSB52 0]

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I have to add my 2 cents here. As an American soldier this story really upset me. All it did is create more hatred towards Americans and especially American soldiers who are trying to perform a job. This story not only caused deaths during the riots but also caused more terrorists to join the insurgency thus causing more soldiers to loose their arms, legs and possibly their lives. I challenge anyone at newsweek to pick up a weapon and walk the streets of Baghdad. Hell, why don't you wear a newsweek t-shirt in the process?

This whole subject just angers me because so many of my friends are currently serving in the global war on terror. And soon it may be my turn which I will do proudly. Our goal is to bring stability to Iraq and a democratic government. There is a lot of good going on in Iraq. Why doesn't the press ever print about positive events there? Concerned for my comrades!!!!! SSG James

So where does this so-called search for freeedom include freedom of teh press? Do you really think the soldiers weren't flushing pages of teh Koran down the shitter? Hell, we made them strip and dog-pile, put leashes on them for degradations sake; is ripping pages out of a book and flushing them such a far cry?

Our goal is to bring stability to Iraq...

Oh, and here I thought it was to find WMD's.... silly me. Oh ya, that was the lie to get us into their country.

...and a democratic government.

Democratic, like Nazi Germany? BTW, when are we going to go after England, Australia and many, many other allies that have Monarchies as a form of their gov? Oh ya, as long as they're our allies they can have whatever form they want, but if not, we utilize ethnocentricity, as we did the American Indians.

There is a lot of good going on in Iraq.

You have GOT to be joking.

Why doesn't the press ever print about positive events there?

Uh, war based upon lies from the White House (WMD's), 1600 dead US, many more thousands dead Iraqi civilians, 1 billion $ per week to run when our economy needs help, all to revert to the way it was when we leave just as Viet Nam did? Why? Why ask why?

[EBSB52 0]

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[replyFurthermore, Newsweek is one of the most credible sources in the American news media.

Not in my opinion. Newsweek became half tabloid a long time ago. When they started implying personal opinion in news stories, it is not news reporting. When they run cover stories about cigar smoking during campaign scandals, they are headed towards entertainment - not news. They are owned by the Washington Post, who leans to the left on almost every new event, so again, what makes NW any different?

When NW started running tabloid type articles and covers, I lost interest in their focus or lack of focus on the news. Why think they are any more "credible" then any other news rag?

[EBSB52 0]

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Ya, I think there is a grreat deal of believability to the story.

Go burn a fucking flag if it makes you feel better. Than stop at the nearest store and get extra large tampons for yourself.

I really, really, really want to run with this, but then I end up looking like the bad guy, so I must let the greenies handle this one.

[rhino 0]

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You still have not listed one trained interrorgator... Of your list, one of the individuals has an intelligence related MOS, and it is not as an interrogator...

good one!

[EBSB52 0]

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Given all the other shit that we know goes on during interrogations, does anyone here honestly doubt that Korans have been vandalised at one time or another?

Seriously. The troops walked around with these guys on leashes, made em srtip naked, and reportedly even made them perform sex; is it so unbelievable that we would rip pages and flush them?

The rub from the right is not whether we committed these atrocities or not, but that the media dare talk about it. And the same group would watch The Dear Hunter and be angered by the vents there.

[EBSB52 0]

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Given all the other shit that we know goes on during interrogations, does anyone here honestly doubt that Korans have been vandalised at one time or another?

See hear is the thing...you have no PROOF that it has happened. The news outlet also had no PROOF.

Do you want the media to report things thay think might have happend? Is that responsible journalism?

Add in that the report, that they now say was incorrect, has led to death and injury...Do you still think that without PROOF they should have reported it?

Also a bunch of the "other shit" was from one location that incase you didn't know, some of those people have been put in jail for it.

They made up a plausible story and then recanted it. The story caused riots and killed people. Then they admitted they didn't have the proof.

Bad reporting IMO to report "facts" that you can't prove.

OMG, Ollie North new millinium.

[EBSB52 0]

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I always find it interesting that those Americans that bash our own nation are the same ones that have never served it. For those of you that bash our "One Nation Under GOD" and have never served you can sleep well. There are a lot of brave soldiers, marines and sailors that provide the blanket of freedom you sleep under and will protect you and your right to whine about politics you really don't understand. I still get that warm fuzzy feeling and the hair stands up on the back of my neck when I see the American Flag and here the national anthem. SSG James

If you're refering to me, I was in basic when I was 17. I did 1 term. So your broad generalization is just that, broad. Kind of funny how the people that are angry about the alleged irresponsible reporting are doing the same with broad generalizations.

Furthermore, I've worked in manufacturing military toys for another 7 + years.

For those of you that bash our "One Nation Under GOD" ....

I don't recognize that, my country has a constitution that dissallows a state sponsored religion, so there is no God in the US.

There are a lot of brave soldiers, marines and sailors that provide the blanket of freedom you sleep under....

Is this a Jack Nocholson line from A Few Good Men? Oh, uh ...

1. It is generally never about the troops, it's about the maggots like Bush that send then to their deaths for ideology and corp profit.

2. No one is attacking us. A radical group used our own resource against us, but no other country is attacking us or has plans of it. This nbotion that someone is attacking us is paranoia.

and will protect you and your right to whine about politics you really don't understand.

And protect your right to whine about people actually having the right to express themselves w/o fear of recourse. Don't understand, please kid, I think I do. What, your military experience makes you an expert? SSGT, probably under 30, no college..... please.

I still get that warm fuzzy feeling and the hair stands up on the back of my neck when I see the American Flag and here the national anthem.

Maybe whne you get out you will get deprogramed as I did - good luck.

[EBSB52 0]

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The US would never flush a book after all that other torture.
Ya, it couldn't be the good ole US of A; we wouldn't do that.

Oh boy, more fascists!

Your willingness to believe this cockamamie story is telling.

Just think about it for a minute. First of all, a book won't fit down a commode - it's physically impossible to flush one. The opening is too small, even for a paperback. So the only way to do it would be to tear the pages out, ball them up, and flush them just a few at a time. And that process would require literally hundreds of flushes. So if it takes the toilet tank a minute to refill after each flush, that method would require several hours to accomplish the feat.

The whole idea is ludicrous from the physical impossibility of it.

And yet you are so willing to buy into it, because you love to believe in the evilness of "fascist" Americans...

What a joke, you can't even keep it on topic, can you?

First of all, a book won't fit down a commode

Pages, Einstein, pages.

So if it takes the toilet tank a minute to refill after each flush, that method would require several hours to accomplish the feat.


Assuming:

They ripped and flushed every page

They didn't have a power shitter

They had a limited amount of time


The whole idea is ludicrous from the physical impossibility of it.


You pherensic rendition is laughable on a good day. So they ripped a few pages and flushed them, that would suffice to anger the prisoners.

And yet you are so willing to buy into it, because you love to believe in the evilness of "fascist" Americans...


It is very plausible. Also, did you or do you buy into the WMD bullshit that teh White had debunked? The whole war is a lie then, right? Went there against virtually all the world's wishes based on a premise that was bullshit from the start, yet you bought into it. And we now have an issue that includes the knowledge of gross torture and publication printing other forms of torture and you find it incomprehensible? Okee-dokee.

[EBSB52 0]

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they thought trashing a Koran would produce information

A trained interrogator with half a brain would know that it would not produce usable information.

It goes to understanding your subject... with this target group, it would likely elicit an emotional response initially, and then strengthen the resolve of the subject... not a very effective technique...

Emotional comments like "Allah will strike you down" or "OBL is a righteous man" do not a AQ operative make in the face desecrating what they see as God's words, though the act might turn him in to one when he gets out.

J

You saw the pics, is it so hard to think this so-called interogation was just fun?

[EBSB52 0]

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Ah, so you need a masters in interrogation before you can be called an interrogator?

More or less, yes... you need to be a qualified 97E (or WO equivalent, Army), or the other services' equivalent to conduct a military interrogation... there is another group allowed to perform what is called "combat questioning" but that is very limited in its scope...

What all of the folks on your list have in common is that they were not conducting interrogations, and in the case of AbuG, specifically, they were not doing it to gather information, they were doing it for kicks... I wouldn't even give them the benifit of having a noble purpose of gathering information.

J

Ok, and the pages were likely ripped and flushed for kicks - that's our/my contention. There is no need for clinical disection of intent, you did see the photos, right?

[Ron 10]

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OMG, Ollie North new millinium

Ah so you can't provide proof, you know you have no leg to stand on on your BS claims, so you try to act like a third grader....Good job.

Oh, and I love this part from you:

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probably under 30, no college..... please

So, only YOU are qualified to make comments...Glad we cleared that up. No reason to post on these boards anymore unless I guess we all agree with your anti-American myopic view.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jdhill 0]

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yet you support the maggot in chief for entering a war against the head of a country for WMD's that admittedly aren't there, for 9/11 actions that weren't ever the doing of the same.

Funny, the same people screaming for Const rights are the ones the busiest burying them

Who is trying to bury constitutional rights? I believe I have been very consistent in my support for all of the right guaranteed by the constitution... How is calling Newsweek irresponsible in any way usurping the 1st Amendment? No one censored Newsweek’s article, although it appears the pentagon could have... I'm sure we would be hearing about the great cover up now if they had.

Newsweek was irresponsible in running a story based on a source that it could not corroborate. That's basic journalism 101... Bush relied on intelligence, from several sources and countries, which has since been found to be incorrect. And, WMD was not the only reason... I have not been silent in my belief that we should have stomped him in '91, or '94, or '97-98.

I know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and that was not a justification for going. And I know SH was a monster of our own making, so what? That just mean we have responsibility for correcting that error.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[rhino 0]

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So, only YOU are qualified to make comments...Glad we cleared that up. No reason to post on these boards anymore unless I guess we all agree with your anti-American myopic view.

lol

[TheAnvil 0]

Try again.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,078]

>so you try to act like a third grader.

Ron, cut it out.

>Pages, Einstein, pages.

EBS, cut it out.

>You are being immature and fanatic

Rhino, cut it out.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Wow. Newsweek has more of a responsibility to get the facts right than the military leader of the US?

Yes. Its entire premise is that it reports the news in a factual way.

The President, otoh, is tasked with protecting America. Democrats had a field day in those hearings exorciating Bush and Rice for not seeing the obvious bin Laden threat and doing something about it. 5 or 10 years from now, they won't be able to say the same wrt Iraq.

I know you didn't approve of the action, and I'm quite sure you know that it was about far more than WMDs. But it's the only horse you have to ride on, so you'll pretend that's all that it's about. The referendum for it was last year and you lost.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Thank goodness Im not running the "camp" they wouldnt even have a Koran to flush, unless they figured a way to pull it out of their ass. Remember people this is a book that they felt sided with their attack on America and the many lives we lost. Yea they were tortured, sad ,well maybe....thats war though... what war hasnt included a bit of torture and murder, this isnt pee wee camp for the blind this is WAR

As far as the press, well their the press, better stories means better ratings , better ratings means better money...enough said, they lie, its human nature sometimes, anyone who puts their whole way of thinking into a newspaper and believes everything is just a dumb ass.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[billvon 3,078]

>Yea they were tortured, sad ,well maybe....thats war though... what
> war hasnt included a bit of torture and murder, this isnt pee wee
> camp for the blind this is WAR

Ah, well, if that's the case, what's the problem with them killing a few americans and cutting contractor's heads off? This is WAR after all; gotta expect the occasional sadistic killing and wholesale murder.

Or do the rules only apply to them?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

nope sadly thats part of war to, we lose people for the greater good of man kind. Because of the americans who have lost their lives, my children will have a better future, and my grand children (in a long time) will have an even better life.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this