Frenchy68 0 #51 May 24, 2005 QuoteThat's not a "profit" motive. It had to do with self defense and balance of power. You should not confuse security with profit. Both were involved. "Hard" power helps creating "soft" power. By being the "Alpha" country within a specific sphere, you enable your country's industries to get a good shot at local economies. It allowed many US companies to thrive on the European Market. That's a fundamental part of the relationship between geopolitics and economics. QuoteWell, if you and Darius think the Iraqii war was started on a false WMD pretense just to make Halliburton executives wealthy I don't. I think there was an economic interest for the US in getting involved in Iraq. Not only Halliburton, but in the long term, many, many US companies will benefit if Iraq stays within the realm of US influence. That's why none of the big powers got involved in Rwanda in the 90's, because there was no economic interest to be had. Quotethen you're both nuts. I don't know about Darius. But at least, you and I agree I am nuts. That's a start. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #52 May 25, 2005 QuoteI think there was an economic interest for the US in getting involved in Iraq. Not only Halliburton, but in the long term, many, many US companies will benefit if Iraq stays within the realm of US influence. That may be true, however that is just a side-effect, and was not the motive for starting the war. The profit-motive does not exist. QuoteI don't know about Darius. But at least, you and I agree I am nuts. That's a start. Thanks for the respite with humor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #53 May 25, 2005 Quote The profit-motive does not exist. a prime example of willful ignorance.. long term economic stability for the US was a KEY factor in the pre-existing plan to invade Iraq.. WMD was simply the excuse used to convince the masses it was nessesary on Bush's timeline.. i'd have honestly been more supportive if we simply admited our real motivations and national interests instead of promoting a non-existant WMD threat and (when that one was shown to be a sheep in wolfs clothing) 'Freedom for poor Iraqis' instead.. of course if we'd done that there would be little chance of building a 'coalition' or convincing the world we were invading 'for the good of all' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #54 May 25, 2005 Quotelong term economic stability for the US was a KEY factor in the pre-existing plan to invade Iraq.. WMD was simply the excuse used to convince the masses it was nessesary on Bush's timeline.. I'll bet you believe everything Michael Moore says, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #55 May 25, 2005 >I'll bet you believe everything Michael Moore says, too. The PNAC is a little more credible than Moore. Besides, Bush would be a fool if he did not take the US's economic survival into account when planning his wars. And although he has made a lot of mistakes, he is not a fool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #56 May 26, 2005 Quote>I'll bet you believe everything Michael Moore says, too. The PNAC is a little more credible than Moore. Besides, Bush would be a fool if he did not take the US's economic survival into account when planning his wars. And although he has made a lot of mistakes, he is not a fool. That has to be the most back handed compliment I've read around here. So now Bush is smart and because he's smart the accusations that the war must be entirely about economic benefit are true? Not exactly what you said but you said it and implied it supported those accusations. Bush may be principaled and doing this for other reasons. There are many reasons not all of them economic to go to war, and when the left swings from this war is about economics that benefit the USA to this war is an economic disaster then you know they're struggling for stable footing. Credibility is in the eye of the beholder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #57 May 26, 2005 i guess you cant read your own candidates 'mission statement'? oh i forget.. your patriotism is blinding your reason...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #58 May 26, 2005 Quote this war is about economics that benefit the USA to this war is an economic disaster . it can certainly be both... there are both short term and long term goals... even the best intentions (which i doubt Bush has even if he really believes he does) can be (and have been proven to be so far) mistaken about the actual outcome... we could very easily be shooting our selves in the foot economically to ensure a 'stable future' that will never occur...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #59 May 26, 2005 Good luck with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #60 May 26, 2005 wait and see... we've broken the egg now and there is no putting it back no matter what the outcome... given the costs of the war so far, and the slow progress of stability (vs the 'cakewalk' predicted) it doesnt look very promising either ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #61 May 26, 2005 QuoteThey're free from the tyranny of Hussein and the Taliban. The only tyranny they have now is from their fellow Muslims who continue to inflict violence upon their own citizenry. So they've been delived from one kind of tyranny to another. How nice for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #62 May 26, 2005 Quoteyour patriotism is blinding your reason... But of course your hatred of Bush is not blinding yours... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #63 May 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteThey're free from the tyranny of Hussein and the Taliban. The only tyranny they have now is from their fellow Muslims who continue to inflict violence upon their own citizenry. So they've been delived from one kind of tyranny to another. How nice for them. A future of peace, freedom and prosperity are now in their hands, where they had no such opportunity before. It's up to them to decide if they want it, or if they want to revert back to a society of tribal warlords who rule by force and terror. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #64 May 28, 2005 The problem here John, is that no matter what you say, if is other than condemning the US actions, or Jewish defending themselves against so many enemies, you will be referred as closed minded.... I tell you when I patch up the first Hajij...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #65 May 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteyour patriotism is blinding your reason... But of course your hatred of Bush is not blinding yours... no, because i dont hate Bush at all. I just happen to think that he (like the majority of our elected officials unfortunately) isnt really qualified to hold the power he does and displays some of the worst traits anyone would want in a leader imaginable. The prime example being; making his decisions BEFORE he has all the facts and then ignoring and sidelining the recognized expert advisors when they disagree with his predetermined agenda..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
