Reason wins out in the US senate

[billvon 2,989]

>"Advise and consent" does not mean "prevent from receiving a
>vote". Voting is what democracy is all about.

So I have to ask - if the republicans filibuster the upcoming stem cell legislation as they are threatening to, will they be anti-democratic as well? Or do you hold them to a different standard?

[kelpdiver 2]

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If even a handful of Dems voted for cloture it would have gone to a vote. This isn't the minority leader merely losing control (which suggests a few rebels), it's the entire caucus voting against cloture en masse. This ain't a loss of control, it's orchestrated with virtually unanimous Democratic support, it IS control.

Defy your party Whips at your own risk.

Might not like your new subcommittee assignments, however.

[dorbie 0]

Exactly, the idea that this is the minority leader losing control of EVERYONE just doesn't fly.

[TheAnvil 0]

Well said. Hadn't heard it put that way before.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[rehmwa 2]

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you are confusing several 'minorities' in your example..

That comment shows you are confused, not me. I'll work to be more clear or blatant, but I thought I was pretty obvious about it.(edit: no I won't, I took a look and it was blatant and and repeated and I can't help those who didn't see it and still felt obligated to respond to something completely different)

I am specifically sticking to the 'minority' as used to defined the House and Senate specifically. i.e., states rights representation as protected by the structure of the Senate specifically. And that minority party concerns are not the intent of the senate nor should it be. Thus the filibuster in the Senate is an overkill already addressed in the construct of the senate itself.

The use of 'minority' in terms of minority party is misuse of the construct of Congress. The voters put in people they want. If the votes go the way that the party not in power don't like, then it's too bad. They'll be in power eventually and have their day.

"the purpose of a democratic government has never been to make decisions as fast as possible... " no kidding. but they should make good decision as fast as possible and some tools are in direct conflict with that. I think the current governement is for a about 500 some people to get cushy jobs, perks and private retirement accounts, talking about non-value added subjective crap and not accomplish anything real in terms of making this a better place.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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>"Advise and consent" does not mean "prevent from receiving a
>vote". Voting is what democracy is all about.

So I have to ask - if the republicans filibuster the upcoming stem cell legislation as they are threatening to, will they be anti-democratic as well? Or do you hold them to a different standard?

Excellent point - I don't know about John or your contention that it "undemocratic", but a filibuster is not a tool to protect states rights vs federal - it's a way for our politicians to not ever have to take an unpopular stand.

Yes, let them vote - the filibuster is how to avoid losing in a vote - well too bad. Let them lose and then move to the next point. If pols make bad decisions, then they get fired next time around.

I'd like them to directly vote on sensitive issues so we can see how they are actually standing on issues. Not hold filibusters and conferences and work out agreements and tie in other items, etc - or reword votes to make them look good.

I want to see how they really stand, so I have an idea how they'd vote in the future, so I can choose to vote or not vote for them based on real insight, not the facade they put in front of us.

I'd like to see them vote their minds and be able to clearly state why they chose their decisions even if unpopular.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants